Putting An End To The Carl Sagan Legacy

Not sure where OP is coming from, but I read Cosmos when I was twelve, it changed my life.

Originally posted by Signals
Not sure where OP is coming from, but I read Cosmos when I was twelve, it changed my life.

To clarify, Sagan was deliberately misleading the public, my reasoning for this is stated in previous posts.

Another poster from the first page, agree's with this statement but thinks its... Okay.

I do not.

We could do with less disinformation in the world, not more of it! lol

Some people make me laugh though, they claim to want truth, yet embrace ignorance, because it comes from the mouth of a national treasure.

The human race may as well be doomed.

Originally posted by jiggerj

Originally posted by thedoctorswife

 

 

I didn't get a chance to see what you wrote, but I'm going to assume you bashed me for not connecting C. Sagan ( a science guy) to a think tank specializing in U.S. foreign policy. Why would I make that connection?

For those of you that don't know what CFR stands for (and has nothing to do with science):

From Wikki: The Council on Foreign Relations (CFR) is an American nonprofit, nonpartisan membership organization, publisher, and think tank specializing in U.S. foreign policy and international affairs. Founded in 1921 and headquartered at 58 East 68th Street in New York City, with an additional office in Washington, D.C., the CFR is considered to be the nation's "most influential foreign-policy think tank".[1] It publishes a bi-monthly journal, Foreign Affairs.

CFR

Nah, i wasnt bashing you, i think i was trying to be funny,(well i thought it was funny anyone, but i had had a good bit of cider), i cant remember what it was that i wrote but it was extremely off-topic and something to do with the Cumbria Fell Runners.
Anyhow, i thank God for Carl Sagan for being one of the guys, who as a child in the 70s introduced me to the world of all things weird and wonderful.

reply to post by Sinny


Whatever sense of him being a "disinfo agent" you have....you cannot deny his positive contributions to THOUGHT far outweigh his public poo-pooing of UFO's.

reply to post by Signals


I grant him he helped open some peoples eye's, however, wasn't he simulataniously ridiculing everybody on the face of the Earth that already accepted Aliens were/are here?

It's a bit of a moral paradox, no?

@Doctors wife, it was quite funny, but rather off topic aha.

put it this way - He offered a service to the sleeping masses, yet offered a disservice to those already awakened...

reply to post by Sinny

It would be an absolutely transforming event in human history. But, the stakes are so high on whether it's true or false that we must demand the more rigorous standards of evidence—precisely because it's so exciting.-Carl Sagan

Sagan interiew

He believed Alien life was out there and refused to rule out the possibility they came here.
Why would he know anything more than the next guy?
I understand why you chose Sagan for this thread, he's very popular and calling him out will certainly bring in many replies.
However, to quote the man himself, ""Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof," and sadly I see none here.

I grant him he helped open some peoples eye's, however, wasn't he simulataniously ridiculing everybody on the face of the Earth that already accepted Aliens were/are here?

With good reason.
As big as his imagination was he wouldn't let it exceed his thirst for knowledge and truth.

reply to post by thatonedude


So you condone that millions of people across the globe are suffering mass hallucinations?

Still no explanation for 52?

NO, I chose Carl Sagan, as stated, because new information came to light. (for me).

reply to post by Sinny

So you condone that millions of people across the globe are suffering mass hallucinations?

I refuse to lump all accounts of UFO's into a single category.
But if I did I would still say that mass hallucinations are the better explanation.
There is no undeniable proof of Alien life visiting earth.

Originally posted by thatonedude
reply to post by Sinny

 

So you condone that millions of people across the globe are suffering mass hallucinations?

I refuse to lump all accounts of UFO's into a single category.
But if I did I would still say that mass hallucinations are the better explanation.
There is no undeniable proof of Alien life visiting earth.

Arr. In that case, I will be wasting my time furthering this conversation.

In closing, I say "It looks like a duck, it acts like a duck, it quacks like a duck, its a duck".

You say "Mass hallucination".

reply to post by Sinny

In closing, I say "It looks like a duck, it acts like a duck, it quacks like a duck, its a duck".

Looks can be deceiving.
If you have "proof" of your claims then why not present it?
If you have this "proof" then why would it take you two weeks for you to present it?
Please understand I am speaking strictly from a curious standpoint and in no way mean to ridicule you.

reply to post by thatonedude


Because at least two weeks would be needed to compile something along the lines as this:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Also, and I know my words count for nothing, I have seen my own bonafide UFO, if my word should happen to amount to anything, I offer you this:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by Sinny

Because at least two weeks would be needed to compile something along the lines as this:

That's as good an answer as any, I look forward to your thread.

Also, and I know my words count for nothing, I have seen my own bonafide UFO,

I am not so quick to discount anyone's word.
Your convictions on the subject are strong and that counts for something in my book.
I have also been witness to things I cannot explain but I can't just chalk it up to aliens when there are so many other angles to investigate from.

reply to post by thatonedude


OKii dokii, I'll shall do my best, keep your eyes peeled for the thread

Originally posted by Sinny
reply to post by thatonedude

 

OKii dokii, I'll shall do my best, keep your peeled for the thread

What is your best ( other then 52' ) .. and What exactly do we need keep peeled ? ..

Have you even watched "Cosmos" ?

It was apparent that CS. Did in fact believe ( and tried to prove ) that other life forms exist not only in our universe .. but in our Galaxy.

I have also personally experienced a few UFOs ( unidentified Floating objects ) while sailing around the Carribean. I have no proof and I am reluctant to speak of my experience of such things to anyone.

However to slam one of the best minds of our time for your personal beliefs is reaching to a self servant agenda.

I know your not going to provide Any proof what so ever in the coming weeks of Earth being visited by non-sol beings/crafts.

Your agenda is weak and your argument is weaker.

Those that Know will probably not tell you what you Need to see.

Those that see will probably not tell those that do not know..

You dont need either one of these.

JG.

reply to post by jaduguru


With all due respect, that comments not for you and the missing word was *eyes* as seen in my edit.

You say "Besides 52" Yet there's an open challenge for anyone to disprove that, why dont you start there?

reply to post by CHRLZ


I'm not going to go back and try to find the television shows where he stated his lofty ideas that life began from a single celled spontaneous event and when asked how he could justify it basically threw in a billion years . That became his calling card . But that was before DNA . Not to say he was not brilliant , he was just wrong as many scientist have now gathered .

Originally posted by thatonedude
reply to post by Sinny

 

But if I did I would still say that mass hallucinations are the better explanation.

What do you mean by mass hallucination?

It's an absurd, idiotic, ignorant, layman's term.

By definition, HALLUCINATION

is an extremely idiosyncratic phenomenon.

If more than one person are seeing the same thing going on that's not real, then it's not per se a hallucination in the normal clinical sense of the term.

There may be a magician's illusion.

There may be a mass mind control technology operating.

There may be a group influencing spiritual phenomenon.

etc.

But NONE of those sorts of things are, per se, "mass hallucination."

Hallucinations by definition arise out of the personal psychology of the individual so afflicted.

And everyone is incredibly different--even identical twins.

The whole nonsense about "mass hallucination" was concocted to rationalize away awareness of realities uncomfortable for certain powers that be to tolerate awareness of.

Originally posted by BO XIAN

Originally posted by thatonedude
reply to post by Sinny

 

But if I did I would still say that mass hallucinations are the better explanation.

What do you mean by mass hallucination?

It's an absurd, idiotic, ignorant, layman's term.

By definition, HALLUCINATION

is an extremely idiosyncratic phenomenon.

If more than one person are seeing the same thing going on that's not real, then it's not per se a hallucination in the normal clinical sense of the term.

There may be a magician's illusion.

There may be a mass mind control technology operating.

There may be a group influencing spiritual phenomenon.

etc.

But NONE of those sorts of things are, per se, "mass hallucination."

Hallucinations by definition arise out of the personal psychology of the individual so afflicted.

And everyone is incredibly different--even identical twins.

The whole nonsense about "mass hallucination" was concocted to rationalize away awareness of realities uncomfortable for certain powers that be to tolerate awareness of.

It was the poster I was replying to that deemed it a hallucination.

reply to post by Sinny


As far as explanations, that's the real problem, isn't it? UFO's are Unidentified Flying Objects. To state that observing something flying overhead is definitely alien in origin without some basis for that claim, makes it a theory. Some things were spotted above DC, okay. But I don't know that anyone was able to examine these things and so it is unknown what they were. There is no proof that aliens were responsible for piloting these things.

In regards to determining Mr. Sagans intentions and whether he was a disinfo agent for the government, I would actually point you to his only work of fiction, "Contact". One of the main themes running through out, is while searching for proof of alien life, politicians and religion completely get in the way of scientific progress. In the end, it took a wealthy individual with the means to do complete the project independant of the government. Someone from the free market.

I'm sorry I brought up your spelling, and normally I wouldn't, but when you are attempting to end the legacy of someone who wanted to inspire higher education and critical thinking, it becomes relevant.

Originally posted by SimonPeter
I'm not going to go back and ...[justify my claims]

No, of course you won't.

You and the OP should enter the next Olympics in the ad hominem and backpedalling events.