Teenage Boy Scout Denied Eagle Scout Because He's Gay

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posted on Oct, 7 2012 @ 07:24 AM
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Originally posted by milkyway12
I am still waiting to see any kind of valid argument against BSA that hasn't been won in law suits favoring BSA.
edit on 7-10-2012 by milkyway12 because: (no reason given)


So now the law is perfect?
I think there are potentially hundreds of thousands of past threads on ATS that will show you that the law and legal system in the USA is anything BUT perfect. In fact, it is generally right-leaning and Christian in nature.

But, because it's about discriminating against gay people, the law is miraculously perfect in this instance, right?




posted on Oct, 7 2012 @ 07:27 AM
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reply to post by detachedindividual
 


Discrimination is okay, who said it wasn't?

If i want to put my son in an organization who doesn't influence my son in the way of homosexuality, atheism, or whatever else i disagree with, BSA is my option. Does it discriminate? Yes. Does it say they are bad people? No. It says they aren't allowed to join out of religious reasons.

If i had a son, i want him in an area that teaches him my values. Such as the BSA.
edit on 7-10-2012 by milkyway12 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 7 2012 @ 07:27 AM
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reply to post by detachedindividual
 


I can see your point but in this case I am choosing to disagree



posted on Oct, 7 2012 @ 07:31 AM
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Originally posted by magma
reply to post by detachedindividual
 


I can see your point but in this case I am choosing to disagree



No, you haven't disagreed with anything, you've ignored the question, and I think you ignore it because you know what that will mean if you answer it.

If you think that it wouldn't be okay for an organization to discriminate against black people, it makes you a homophobe.

If you think an organization has the right to discriminate against anyone, depending on their view, you accept that racism and homophobia are okay, as is sexism, ageism, discrimination against disability...

Man up, what's your opinion? Is it right that a group can have a white's only policy or not? If yes, why? If no, why is it okay with regard to sexuality?



posted on Oct, 7 2012 @ 07:33 AM
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Originally posted by alfa1

Originally posted by smyleegrl
"This scout proactively notified his unit leadership and Eagle Scout counselor that he does not agree to scouting's principle of 'Duty to God' and does not meet scouting's membership standard on sexual orientation,"



It always puzzles me why people join organisations, whos rules they dont agree with.

You see the same thing with the Catholic church, who's anti-gay and anti-female equality stance has been around since forever. Gays and female equalitarians *within it* get upset and cry that their views are not respected. Well... of course they're not respected.

Much like joining a sporting team, where you only agree with 95 percent of the game's rules.

Why did this idiot join the BSA anyway?


From what i have read here & on the linked site is that the Scouts are funded privately by religious groups, predominantly Catholic & Christian groups thus it can basically do what it wants.

The problem i have with Catholic & Christian groups is that they are vehemently against Gays & Homosexuals, yet many of the priests & bishops have raped many boys/males over decades, thus the priests & bishops are themselves Gay/Homosexual.

I do not understand why the church followers support the rapist priests & bishops & agree with them that Gays & Homosexuals should be banished, yet the people telling the followers what to think are doing the very same thing themselves.

edit on 7/10/12 by DanaKatherineScully because: spelling error



posted on Oct, 7 2012 @ 07:38 AM
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reply to post by milkyway12
 


Hmm that the earth was created by a omnipotent being ?

God created man in his own image, yet there are homosexuals ?

So you want your son to grow up prejudice then ?



posted on Oct, 7 2012 @ 07:39 AM
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reply to post by DanaKatherineScully
 


Yes, his morals should be unwavering but kind; he should be prejudice, but respectful in his Morals and his beliefs.

I could just throw out that your battle is not against flesh but against principalities. The flesh is weak, but the temptations come from principalities. The spirit is willing (to obey God), but the body is weak. Forget about that part though, right?
edit on 7-10-2012 by milkyway12 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 7 2012 @ 07:44 AM
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Originally posted by milkyway12
reply to post by detachedindividual
 


Discrimination is okay, who said it wasn't?


Government, public, general opinion.


Originally posted by milkyway12
If i want to put my son in an organization who doesn't influence my son in the way of homosexuality, atheism, or whatever else i disagree with, BSA is my option. Does it discriminate? Yes, does it say they are bad people? No. It says they aren't allowed to join out of religious reasons.


And here we have the crux of the matter. "Influence" your son? How exactly is that going to happen?
You're exposing your homophobia rather than your common sense. You're coming across as another right-wing radical Christian.

The purpose of a rule like this is to victimize others. The "religious reasons" you state are a method of deeming others to be "less Human" than those making the rule. It's a method of one group of people to hold power and dominance over others, and you know it too.

The idea that this doesn't mean they are calling gay people "bad people" is a fantasy. That is exactly what this means. If it were not so, we wouldn't be having this discussion right now. They use the very fact that the Bible chooses to claim that gay people are bad as a defense for their own homophobia - so the concept that the BSA don't have a problem with gay people is complete and utter rubbish.


Originally posted by milkyway12
If i had a son, i want him in an area that teaches him my values. Such as the BSA.
edit on 7-10-2012 by milkyway12 because: (no reason given)


Well, in my opinion, you'd be heading in the wrong direction if you want to teach your son values. Real values are ones that do not victimize others. If anything, I would say it's immoral to teach your child such hateful opinions. But not only that, when they grow up with these kinds of attitudes they are increasingly limited in their ability to form personal and professional relationships and be a part of the community.

While the rest of the world is moving on, your bigoted and homophobic son would be cast aside and excluded from society for his views. Just like the racist now. People no longer accept the views of fifty years ago, and kids raised with that kind of racist mentality generally grow up to face one of two kinds of existence... either they learn to change their beliefs because of the society around them and then become a valued member of society, or they become trailer trash, excluded from opportunity because no one wants to deal with them.

I would say parents who raise their children to be ill-equipped to live successfully in a modern world are guilty of harming their children and restricting their chances of being successful.



posted on Oct, 7 2012 @ 07:48 AM
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reply to post by detachedindividual
 


So, basically you just regurgitated everything you already said and i already replied too.

Discrimination is NOT illegal, unless hiring, or receiving federal funds as a public institution. My personal opinions and beliefs can discriminate all day long. That was the only new thing you mentioned.

My world isn't modern, it's traditional. I don't "bend" to the modern world. God, Constitution (country), and family is all i need.
edit on 7-10-2012 by milkyway12 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 7 2012 @ 07:48 AM
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Originally posted by milkyway12
reply to post by DanaKatherineScully
 


Yes, his morals should be unwavering but kind; he should be prejudice, but respectful in his Morals and his beliefs.

I could just throw out that your battle is not against flesh but against principalities. The flesh is weak, but the temptations come from principalities. The spirit is willing (to obey God), but the body is weak. Forget about that part though, right?
edit on 7-10-2012 by milkyway12 because: (no reason given)


The same can go both ways.

I can throw it out there that the religious are weak, unable to face the reality that they are responsible for their own lives. They need some imaginary invisible sky wizard to hold their hand and guide them through life, like toddlers perpetually learning to walk.

Either way, it is just an opinion.



posted on Oct, 7 2012 @ 07:50 AM
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reply to post by milkyway12
 


Well i wouldn't know because i do not believe in a god (any god), i have my own principles, i think for myself, i do not follow what some unknowns wrote in a book thousands of years ago.

All i know is that i wouldn't want any of my children to grow up a racist, sexist or homophobic, what i would want them to grow up knowing is the truth (actual factual truth) & also that people should not judge & everyone is different.

St. Matthew - 7 ~

1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. Mk. 4.24
3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.
6 ¶ Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.


Originally posted by milkyway12
reply to post by detachedindividual
 


So, basically you just regurgitated everything you already said and i already replied too.

Discrimination is NOT illegal, unless hiring, or receiving federal funds as a public institution. My personal opinions and beliefs can discriminate all day long. That was the only new thing you mentioned.

My world isn't modern, it's traditional. I don't "bend" to the modern world. God, Constitution (country), and family is all i need.
edit on 7-10-2012 by milkyway12 because: (no reason given)


Do you believe it is morally wrong to discriminate against a individual for any reason ?
edit on 7/10/12 by DanaKatherineScully because: new quote added



posted on Oct, 7 2012 @ 07:50 AM
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Originally posted by milkyway12
reply to post by detachedindividual
 


So, basically you just regurgitated everything you already said and i already replied too.

Discrimination is NOT illegal, unless hiring, or receiving federal funds as a public institution. My personal opinions and beliefs can discriminate all day long. That was the only new thing you mentioned.
edit on 7-10-2012 by milkyway12 because: (no reason given)


So you believe that it is okay for an organization to discriminate against black people?

If the BSA had a policy against the inclusion of black people you would agree with that and support it?



posted on Oct, 7 2012 @ 07:51 AM
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reply to post by detachedindividual
 


Good thing it's your opinion? You aren't receiving federal funds are you??

2nd.



posted on Oct, 7 2012 @ 07:55 AM
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reply to post by milkyway12
 


Do you believe it is morally wrong to discriminate against a individual for any reason ?

Also i have just noticed your signature, the irony of it is astonishing,

God is part of the problem, not the solution.



posted on Oct, 7 2012 @ 08:00 AM
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reply to post by DanaKatherineScully
 


No it is not morally wrong to discriminate against an individual, thing, or action. The WAY in which you discriminate is wrong. If i walked up and punched in the face because you were homosexual, that is wrong, and a hate crime. If I avoided you and kept conversations to a minimum because you were gay is not wrong. I simply removed myself from the problem. Live your life, I'll live mine. However, stop attacking my core values.

Such as changing the definition of marriage and attacking the BSA because they do not allow homosexuals or atheist into its club. You are attacking me and my beliefs, so I have to defend them.

Now i feel you went from living your life, to attacking my beliefs and saying "God" is the problem. I simply avoided and ignored you, but i get attacked.

Sooooo, you're discriminating against God. Technically. You're a dirty little discriminator and you should go to prison or fined 500 dolla.

reply to post by detachedindividual
 


If they are a private organization, they can discriminate all they want. Do i care that the KKK hates black people? Nope, could care less. Do i care that the Black Panthers hate white people? Nope, could care less. You can spit hate hate hate all day, i don't care what you say about my race because i .. just .. don't .. care about race.

Now, if you block my polling station with a bat, you and i are going to have very big problems and i mean very big problems. Whether it's the KKK or Black Panthers or some gang.

Lets get to the niddy griddy. Do i care that the black people were enslaved by American white men? Nope, could care less.
edit on 7-10-2012 by milkyway12 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 7 2012 @ 08:09 AM
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What the BSA dont seem to realize is that once again times are changing and people attitudes to such things as homosexuality are becoming a non-issue to the majority of citizens. Granted, the change might be slower in america because of how many religious people you still have in large concentrations, but it will go the same way as de-segregation of black and white people.

If the organization refuse's to change it will simply be demonized and willingly replaced by society that no longer wants to tolerate hate.

How immature of them to deny a title to a person who has been with them years for the simple fact that he cannot help but be attracted to the same sex. I pity them, How unfortunate for these humans that they cannot get past their own sexual preferences so that they may accept others equally.



posted on Oct, 7 2012 @ 08:14 AM
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reply to post by milkyway12
 


I cannot discriminate against something that does not exist.

If you want to believe in a god then that is up to you & i do not really have a problem with that, it is your choice.

Can you answer me this though, why did god (your) create homosexuals ?
edit on 7/10/12 by DanaKatherineScully because: added additional text



posted on Oct, 7 2012 @ 08:15 AM
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I don't see anything wrong with it. They're a private organization and should be free to set their own rules and regulations with regards to who may be a member and who may not and as to what constitutes acceptable behavior for those members.

Don't like it? Its as simple as starting a competing organization. I'm sure someone already has.



posted on Oct, 7 2012 @ 08:19 AM
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reply to post by DanaKatherineScully
 


That is like asking me why I baked a cake and asked you not to take a bite of that cake, but you take a bite out of it. Was I wrong for baking the cake? You made the choice to eat it; I simply asked you not to eat it.
edit on 7-10-2012 by milkyway12 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 7 2012 @ 08:19 AM
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Originally posted by milkyway12
reply to post by DanaKatherineScully
 


No it is not morally wrong to discriminate against an individual, thing, or action. The WAY in which you discriminate is wrong. If i walked up and punched in the face because you were homosexual, that is wrong, and a hate crime. If I avoided you and kept conversations to a minimum because you were gay is not wrong. I simply removed myself from the problem. Live your life, I'll live mine. However, stop attacking my core values.

Such as changing the definition of marriage and attacking the BSA because they do not allow homosexuals or atheist into its club. You are attacking me and my beliefs, so I have to defend them.

Now i feel you went from living your life, to attacking my beliefs and saying "God" is the problem. I simply avoided and ignored you, but i get attacked.

Sooooo, you're discriminating against God. Technically. You're a dirty little discriminator and you should go to prison or fined 500 dolla.

reply to post by detachedindividual
 


If they are a private organization, they can discriminate all they want. Do i care that the KKK hates black people? Nope, could care less. Do i care that the Black Panthers hate white people? Nope, could care less. You can spit hate hate hate all day, i don't care what you say about my race because i .. just .. don't .. care about race.

Now, if you block my polling station with a bat, you and i are going to have very big problems and i mean very big problems. Whether it's the KKK or Black Panthers or some gang.
edit on 7-10-2012 by milkyway12 because: (no reason given)


Oh! Thy religious hypocrisy again! I love it


So, let me understand this properly.
It's not discrimination to exclude and victimize gay people, or black people.
But it is discrimination to refuse the religious crazies in the world the right to discriminate against others?

In this instance you believe that it's discrimination against you if you are not allowed to discriminate against others.


And just to clarify, you think it would be acceptable for BSA to have a white's only policy? Whether you personally agree with it or not, you would support their right to exclude based on race.

I just want to see you state that, to really enforce the point





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