Teenage Boy Scout Denied Eagle Scout Because He's Gay

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by Annee

 

Hence, the mental abuse going on here. Is there a lawsuit in progress? If not, step on it!

This is discrimination, and we cannot allow it. Make a petition, write to the senators, do something! Are we allowing this to remain the status quo?

Back to the "Secret 11". A SECRET panel of 11 made the decision to continue with the anti-gay position.

Since then its been almost like a witch hunt to rid the BSA of any gay scout or gay parent.

There are many top leaders in the BSA who do not agree with this. They are campaigning internally to overturn this stance.

So far this Secret panel of 11 - - has not been exposed. They need to be.

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by JohnPhoenix
The boy's choice doesn't effect me personally, no

You are stating this kid - - chose to be gay?

It doesn't matter if he thinks he was born gay or he just decided he fell in love with men over women one day - His Choice, was to come out to the Scout knowing being gay was against the Scouts rules. That was his choice.

wait - I went back and reread the context again..

"Does him being gay affect you or the lives of his peers?"

I have actually tried to answer all your points several times. The boy's choice doesn't effect me personally, no

I do personally believe the boy made a choice as I believe no one is born gay. But that really doesn't matter for the purposes of the above question. I could have worded the answer like " The boy's being gay doesn't effect me, no."

Originally posted by JohnPhoenix

If your asking if I were to re-make the Scouts would I then allow Gays and Atheists? I think it's great that there is an organization that sets such high moral and ethical standards. I would do exactly what the Scouts do now - they have a program with these standards - And they have a program where gays and atheists Are indeed welcome. They cater to both types of groups which I think is smart.

I had to pull this paragraph out of your long post.

Need more clarification.

Originally posted by Keeper of Kheb
good for the boy scouts of america standing up for principles and moral values. God Bless them!

Being gay is less moral than discrimination? God bless your confused heart.

Originally posted by Southern Guardian
reply to post by JohnPhoenix

 

You didn't answer my question.

I'm not concerned about the organizations position on the matter or their legal rights. My question was directed at your personal view of this. Do you believe that this boys sexuality should be a factor in him receiving that award, or does his sexuality not concern you? That scout leader evidently made his choice based in part over his personal views, it was not just merely that of the boyscouts. What is your personal position? Do you feel the discrimmination over this boys sexuality is justified? Does him being gay affect you or the lives of his peers?

I know it wasnt directed at me but I thought I would add my input anyway. Although ive voiced my support for the Scouts rights to do as they please in this situation, If I were the scout master, I personally wouldnt care and I would give him his Eagle "rank" or designation, whatever it is. I am not THAT biased or hateful, I just believe, as a private organization, they have the right to make their own policies.

Originally posted by Trueman
Sorry, people need to read the requirements and/or rules previous to join an institution. Trying to force an institution to accept a person is a distorsion of reality, which is common in our days, but never will be right. There is no discrimination here. Not sure if making a new gay boy scout group with different rules is a good idea. I wouldn't buy the cookies if knock at my door.

I'm not sure how you can say there is no discrimination happening here. It's blatant discrimination whether you believe it or not.

I was just mentioning outdated belief systems in another thread. Anyone who objectively views the situation will realize that being gay or straight is NOT a choice. With the majority of gay guys, it is obvious from when they are little kids. I have seen this firsthand with a cousin of mine too.

Attraction is not a choice, no matter if you're male or female. This is how confident guys get more girls than meek guys. Because women are naturally attracted to a certain type of confidence. It is ingrained in their system somehow, likely an evolutionary response dating back millennia.

So when a guy is attracted to another guy, or a girl is attracted to other girls, they are not consciously making the decision to be attracted to the person. It happens via their mind and chemicals and emotional responses, none of which the person can just "stop," or "turn off." How ignorant those people are who do not realize this. They are simply intolerant, and their beliefs are simply prejudiced and outdated.

Therefore it is not right to discriminate against people, especially when they have no choice in the matter. These people may be different, and the minority, but if they are citizens of their country, they deserve all rights given to everyone else. As in this case. Denying him this rank is simply showing intolerance, and more importantly, a lack of understanding. With science available to the masses as it is today, the only thing standing in the way of people understanding that attraction isn't a choice is their own personal prejudice.

Is it a coincidence that the majority of those who are against gays in any way, shape, or form are republican? That is another matter for another discussion, but it is obvious that people tend to group themselves with others who share their beliefs. These people want gays to just "change." Well, it would be more practical for the prejudiced morons to change, as their prejudice is not ingrained as much as a person's sexual preference. I suppose this also proves that religious people tend to be more biased and hypocritical than most, since they supposedly teach tolerance but hate gays.

Science trumps religion in many instances, because what is written in the Bible is nothing more than the ideas of mortal, ordinary men. And any rational person should be able to see the evidence presented by science, versus a line of text in an archaic book, and make the correct choice. How can anyone teach Jesus' message, yet turn around and be intolerant of others? Hypocrites.

Originally posted by JohnPhoenix

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by JohnPhoenix
The boy's choice doesn't effect me personally, no

You are stating this kid - - chose to be gay?

It doesn't matter if he thinks he was born gay or he just decided he fell in love with men over women one day - His Choice, was to come out to the Scout knowing being gay was against the Scouts rules. That was his choice.

wait - I went back and reread the context again..

"Does him being gay affect you or the lives of his peers?"

I have actually tried to answer all your points several times. The boy's choice doesn't effect me personally, no

I do personally believe the boy made a choice as I believe no one is born gay. But that really doesn't matter for the purposes of the above question. I could have worded the answer like " The boy's being gay doesn't effect me, no."

edit on 7-10-2012 by JohnPhoenix because: sp

The fact that you think being gay is a choice just shows me, and everyone in this thread, that you are ignorant to reality.

Originally posted by JohnPhoenix

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by JohnPhoenix
The boy's choice doesn't effect me personally, no

You are stating this kid - - chose to be gay?

It doesn't matter if he thinks he was born gay or he just decided he fell in love with men over women one day - His Choice, was to come out to the Scout knowing being gay was against the Scouts rules. That was his choice.

Just wanted clarification on what you meant.

So - - gays should remain in the closet until they "get their reward". That's kind of in opposition of what scouting teaches. Very hypocritical.

Seems to me this country was built on individuals standing up for themselves against oppression.

I applaud him and his parents for not just going away quietly. They will be on at least one TV show in the next coming weeks.

I expect at some point he will get his Eagle Scout rank. It may be down the road - - when the BSA dumps their discrimination - - and makes amends to Ryan and others. He is not the only one.

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by JohnPhoenix

If your asking if I were to re-make the Scouts would I then allow Gays and Atheists? I think it's great that there is an organization that sets such high moral and ethical standards. I would do exactly what the Scouts do now - they have a program with these standards - And they have a program where gays and atheists Are indeed welcome. They cater to both types of groups which I think is smart.

I had to pull this paragraph out of your long post.

Need more clarification.

The Boy Scouts of America have two programs. One, the traditional "Scouting" program as it was established years ago by the Englishman whom we've talked about, and they have a program called Exploring or Learning for Life that does allow gays and atheists. I believe the BSA created this side group as a way for gays and atheists to have the scouting experience while not changing the way the original program was set up.

en.wikipedia.org... Exploring

Originally posted by Keeper of Kheb
good for the boy scouts of america standing up for principles and moral values. God Bless them!

"god bless them" ??.... for discriminating against hard work and perserverance....why would anyone want to believe in a "god" that does this. maybe the "church of santa claus" would be the better place to worship in for principles and morals

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by JohnPhoenix

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by JohnPhoenix
The boy's choice doesn't effect me personally, no

You are stating this kid - - chose to be gay?

It doesn't matter if he thinks he was born gay or he just decided he fell in love with men over women one day - His Choice, was to come out to the Scout knowing being gay was against the Scouts rules. That was his choice.

Just wanted clarification on what you meant.

So - - gays should remain in the closet until they "get their reward". That's kind of in opposition of what scouting teaches. Very hypocritical.

Seems to me this country was built on individuals standing up for themselves against oppression.

I applaud him and his parents for not just going away quietly. They will be on at least one TV show in the next coming weeks.

I expect at some point he will get his Eagle Scout rank. It may be down the road - - when the BSA dumps their discrimination - - and makes amends to Ryan and others. He is not the only one.

Did you see my edit of that post?

Tell me, this kids clearly broke the rules by coming out as being Gay knowing it was against the rules to be gay. For this you don't ascribe any blame on the kid at all?

It's just o.k. for people to go around breaking the rules of organizations they join in your world?

Ill also say this. The BS have one of the largest reputations of pedophilia cover ups in history, after the Catholic Church.
They are currently in the process of releasing records of pedo cases that they have accumulated over the years but never reported.
I would never have let my son join that group.

Originally posted by Juggernog
I just believe, as a private organization, they have the right to make their own policies.

Then why is the Secret 11 hiding?

Why are they not publicly "out front" and open about who they are - - and their reasons for this decision.

This is not some money based corporate conglomerate responsible to its stockholders.

This is an organization for children and their parents. Affecting thousands of young boys and their parents.

The KKK can no longer wear hoods. Why do these 11 get to hide?

Originally posted by JohnPhoenix


Did you see my edit of that post?

Tell me, this kids clearly broke the rules by coming out as being Gay knowing it was against the rules to be gay. For this you don't ascribe any blame on the kid at all?

It's just o.k. for people to go around breaking the rules of organizations they join in your world?

Its also against the rules to: lie - - be dishonest - - etc.

This kid was following all the important rules of what scouting is all about.

Originally posted by JohnPhoenix

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by JohnPhoenix

If your asking if I were to re-make the Scouts would I then allow Gays and Atheists? I think it's great that there is an organization that sets such high moral and ethical standards. I would do exactly what the Scouts do now - they have a program with these standards - And they have a program where gays and atheists Are indeed welcome. They cater to both types of groups which I think is smart.

I had to pull this paragraph out of your long post.

Need more clarification.

The Boy Scouts of America have two programs. One, the traditional "Scouting" program as it was established years ago by the Englishman whom we've talked about, and they have a program called Exploring or Learning for Life that does allow gays and atheists. I believe the BSA created this side group as a way for gays and atheists to have the scouting experience while not changing the way the original program was set up.

en.wikipedia.org... Exploring

edit on 7-10-2012 by JohnPhoenix because: sp

Thank you for the clarification.

However - - - Separate but Equal?

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by Juggernog
I just believe, as a private organization, they have the right to make their own policies.

Then why is the Secret 11 hiding?

Why are they not publicly "out front" and open about who they are - - and their reasons for this decision.

This is not some money based corporate conglomerate responsible to its stockholders.

This is an organization for children and their parents. Affecting thousands of young boys and their parents.

The KKK can no longer wear hoods. Why do these 11 get to hide?

I really dont know annee, I havent been following this thread that closely, I just thought I would add my opinion.
Im not looking for an argument or debate.
thanks

Originally posted by JohnPhoenix
The boy's choice doesn't effect me personally, no

You say this, and then you say this:

Yes. I believe it should be a factor because the BSA openly states

You once again hide behind the Boyscouts as an excuse. You admit that his sexuality doesn't effect your life or the lives of his peers, it doesn't appear to be an issue, yet you still believe his sexuality should have been a factor. I already told you, we're not concerned with the position of the BSA as we already know their position on the matter and their legal rights, we're concerned with your position. Do you think him being gays should have been a factor to him earning that award personally? If you had your own boyscouts, would you enforce the same law against gays as they would??

reply to post by smyleegrl


The requirements to make Eagle Scout.
www.usscouts.org...


Taint easy, I only know one person who made it.
With the latest scandal within the scouting community one would think they would not want this negative attention being brougt to them. ( think preist and a Vatican coverup )

Originally posted by Juggernog
I know it wasnt directed at me but I thought I would add my input anyway. Although ive voiced my support for the Scouts rights to do as they please in this situation, If I were the scout master, I personally wouldnt care and I would give him his Eagle "rank" or designation, whatever it is. I am not THAT biased or hateful, I just believe, as a private organization, they have the right to make their own policies.

Thanks for the response jugger, glad to know this is your position.