Teenage Boy Scout Denied Eagle Scout Because He's Gay

Originally posted by milkyway12
If God is real, I'm sure he could create a book. If he isnt, I lose nothing, but if he is ...

I sense uncertainty. Isn't your faith supposed to be absolute? You now suggest that you believe in God because you fear the consequences of not believing

Christianity - protection racket for the weak minded.

reply to post by detachedindividual


Dont confuse me with milkyway, my opposition to homosexuality has nothing to do with religion, I just find it morally wrong as well as disgusting and I doubt that any corporation is "forced" to donate to them, they do so because they want to.
And when is the last time youve seen a boycott of a corporation actually work?
Howd that chick fil a thing work out

Well...so far 11 pages... 10 flags....good!!! It seems most still agree w/ the original program.

reply to post by EarthCitizen23


When your son annoys you and does something specifically out of spite of you, do you hate his guts and hope he will die??

Hopefully, no, you don't hate him. You are justifiably angry with him for not respecting you as a parent who loves, protects, and cares for him. You may turn your head for a bit, but finally enough will be enough and you will force him to behave.

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Just using an analogy. God refers to us as children. I wonder why?

Originally posted by Juggernog
reply to post by detachedindividual

 

And when is the last time youve seen a boycott of a corporation actually work?
Howd that chick fil a thing work out

Successful Boycotts

reply to post by detachedindividual


If spending eternity in a pit of fire, the worst part, knowing you have no hope, no escape, doesn't scare you, you're doing it wrong. I guess that is a bad thing now, to fear God and what he can do.

That is the whole point of the tribulation. To show people who do not believe, he is God.

I think we are de-railing the thread.

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By the way, I was stating I fear God more than death.

reply to post by Juggernog


Actually it worked out very well,, go look and see how Chick Fil a has made an about face.

So,, FAIL on your part.

The thread title is misleading. It had nothing to do with being gay. I wouldn't have bothered to read it except that one of the boys who made "Eagle" in our troop is gay.

If you belong to an organization that makes the statement below an integral part of the program and you don't mean what you say, you are not Eagle scout material. I do believe they make this oath/promise at every meeting. You can't tell me he did know about it.

Sore Mom and shame on the website that turned this into a scandal.

Boy Scout Oath or Promise

On my honor, I will do my best To do my duty to God and my country and to obey the Scout Law; To help other people at all times; To keep myself physically strong, mentally awake and morally straight.

Originally posted by milkyway12
reply to post by smyleegrl

 

If it isn't in the Holy Bible it should be taken as a grain of salt. If God is real, I'm sure he could create a book. If he isnt, I lose nothing, but if he is ...

Yes it would create a lot of books by the help of humans who experiance extrodanary things during their life. I think he created a few books that are test to meassure souls and a few books that are purer truth. A person beliving in nonduality love for all will pass thru the bible and see all the duality and ego for what it is. A person beliving in duality will get his own ego shown back at him and stay within his own understanding.

A person looking from a nonduality view will see signs of god everywhere in creation and views of god including science, while a duality mind will only seek in one place where his ego is comfortable.

Grace is a physical thing that can be achived while living and is a tool used to help people who need support. The people who have experianced it know they got it and they will forever both be the same and totaly different.

Lose yourself and find it all.

Originally posted by DanaKatherineScully
reply to post by milkyway12

 

I cannot discriminate against something that does not exist.

If you want to believe in a god then that is up to you & i do not really have a problem with that, it is your choice.

Can you answer me this though, why did god (your) create homosexuals ?

edit on 7/10/12 by DanaKatherineScully because: added additional text

From my point of view. To teach humans to evolve away from judging what they can
not understand and stop playing around with duality (black vs white/religon vs religon/race against race) thinking.

Originally posted by milkyway12
reply to post by detachedindividual

 

If spending eternity in a pit of fire, the worst part, knowing you have no hope, no escape, doesn't scare you, you're doing it wrong. I guess that is a bad thing now, to fear God and what he can do.

That is the whole point of the tribulation. To show people who do not believe, he is God.

I think we are de-railing the thread.

---

By the way, I was stating I fear God more than death.

edit on 7-10-2012 by milkyway12 because: (no reason given)

Maybe you should follow the highest ideals you can think of instead and not give into fear. What would you rather be? A rightous man who even stands up to gods that have all the power to crush you if they are bullies or a person who follows a bully god getting part of the spoils from that bully.

I never could get comfortable with the conditioned view of god as a bully. God is for me both an increadable teacher teaching logic and curiosity and like a puppie, loving you following you around wanting to play and keep you safe and happy sharing every moment with you even if you do not always notice it.

If he states he is gay and admits he doesn't believe in god then it does go against the "code" and so he shouldn't be able to earn Eagle Scout. It's no secret those are the rules.

However it appears he was misled into believing it wouldn't be an issue by a scout leader, in which case the scout leader is at fault. Seems pretty apparent there is no unanimous agreement in the scout ranks about their policies if this was able to happen. That is the fault of the organization. The boy did nothing wrong if he was misled about official policy by a representative of the organization.

My favorite part about this story though is that a boy who was a member of this organization for a very long time, long before he would even know what sexual and religious orientation was, who was fed many years of kool-aid about god, and about homosexuality being immoral....ends up being both gay and atheist/agnostic.

So despite their best efforts at brainwashing they failed. Just goes to show you that you cannot change who a person really is no matter how exclusionary and narrow-minded you try to be, no matter how tightly you put the blinders on your children.

As an aside I hope people comprehend that pedophiles are not the same as homosexuals. If you don't understand that then you are putting your children at grave risk by focusing your attention on the wrong people.

reply to post by milkyway12


Then he sends 'em off to Hell for Eternity, because they question his Instruction Book (according to some,, the Bible) and are uneasy about believing Testament records about His One and Only,,,, yep,, sounds like a father to me,, but not the kind I would look up to.

Absent and Abusive

towards his family according to some of the records of the Old Testament,,,
or were those who he Smote ,,, not his Children?

That "God" is way to small.

Originally posted by detachedindividual

Churches are closing at record rates all over the world. The religions are losing followers at an amazing pace, and those who do choose to follow a faith are increasingly modernizing that faith to be reflective of the society in which it operates.

Yep! The Mormon church just lowered its age requirement for Missionaries. Both boys and girls.

Churches do "cook the books". If you do not officially resign - - they continue to count you as a member. When Mormons got involved in Prop8 - - - there were campaigns and instructions on how to officially resign - - and remove your name from their registry. Which I did. And so did thousands more.

If you have ever officially joined a church - - - and no longer support their bigotry/hypocrisy - - - Please officially get your name off their count.

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Also - - with so much pressure from the public - - - the government will also start denying support for the boy scouts.

Which they should not be supporting in the first place - - - if the BSA is going to discriminate because of religion.

reply to post by smyleegrl


You mean prospective employers, government agencies, and educational systems are not allowed to discriminate against people based on sexual orientation, but the Boy Scouts can?

That's moronic. There's nothing else to be said on the matter...just sheer, stupendous idiocy and cruelty. Faith in humanity has been lost - AGAIN.

Originally posted by otherpotato
If he states he is gay and admits he doesn't believe in god . .

He never said he did not believe in god. He does believe in a higher power.

The BSA is manipulating "Duty to God" as not being gay.

Originally posted by Southern Guardian
reply to post by JohnPhoenix

 

You didn't answer my question.

I'm not concerned about the organizations position on the matter or their legal rights. My question was directed at your personal view of this. Do you believe that this boys sexuality should be a factor in him receiving that award, or does his sexuality not concern you? That scout leader evidently made his choice based in part over his personal views, it was not just merely that of the boyscouts. What is your personal position? Do you feel the discrimmination over this boys sexuality is justified? Does him being gay affect you or the lives of his peers?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"Does him being gay affect you or the lives of his peers? "

I have actually tried to answer all your points several times. The boy's choice doesn't effect me personally, no ( If I were his scout leader, that would depend on their relationship.. did the scout leader even like the boy, were they friends.. etc.. we have no idea why the scout leader threw him under the bus when he could have just ignored the issue like other scout leaders have) for his peers.. I am not them. It may be that his choice does effect some of his peers.

Do you feel the discrimmination over this boys sexuality is justified?

Thats a trick question. The boy was Not discriminated against IMO. If the boy understood that his belief in God also had to mean he must not be gay or atheist, and the boy willingly choose to ignore those rules then the Boy is first and foremost, at fault for breaking the rules and thus voided any awards or promotions such as the Eagle Scout Badge, They could have just kicked out the kid outright, instead, they let the kid stay. That was very admirable of them.

That scout leader evidently made his choice based in part over his personal views, it was not just merely that of the boyscouts.

We don't know if your above statement is true. You are making an assumption with no facts - nevertheless, I believe his personal feelings must have played a factor - even if it's just to the point where he felt strongly about upholding the statutes of the BSA.

Do you believe that this boys sexuality should be a factor in him receiving that award, or does his sexuality not concern you?

Yes. I believe it should be a factor because the BSA openly states they do not allow gay or atheist people in their organization. You can't join any group, not follow their rules, and expect to be treated as if you do. That's ignorant.

If your asking if I were to re-make the Scouts would I then allow Gays and Atheists? I think it's great that there is an organization that sets such high moral and ethical standards. I would do exactly what the Scouts do do now - they have a program with these standards - And they have a program where gays and atheists Are indeed welcome. They cater to both types of groups which I think is smart.

I have answered your questions again, and my answers mirror what i've already said. Does that work for you??

Good article on what "Duty to God" actually means. Please read entire article.

What does Scouting mean by Duty to God?

Scouting embraces diverse spiritual expression, theistic or not

By Scouter Liam Morland, 1996

One of Scouting’s three Principles is titled "Duty to God." This statement has been interpreted in many different ways, some of which have lead to religious discrimination, a violation of Scouting’s fundamentals. What does Duty to God really mean to Scouting? Duty to God is about the development of the spiritual values of life and is not a statement about any required beliefs about the material world. This essay is based on the World Organization of the Scout Movement’s (WOSM) document Fundamental Principles which contains "the only authoritative statement agreed upon by more than one hundred member organizations of WOSM" (WOSM 1992:1). All quotations in this essay are from that document.scoutdocs.ca...

NOTE: This essay is based entirely on WOSM's fundamentals because it is both the authoritative statement to which all member associations of the WOSM must adhere (ibid:1) and a concise summary of Lord Baden-Powell's writings about what Scouting is. This essay could also have been based on BP's original writings.

scoutdocs.ca...

reply to post by Annee


Hence, the mental abuse going on here. Is there a lawsuit in progress? If not, step on it!

This is discrimination, and we cannot allow it. Make a petition, write to the senators, do something! Are we allowing this to remain the status quo?

Originally posted by JohnPhoenix
The boy's choice doesn't effect me personally, no

You are stating this kid - - chose to be gay?