Tremors felt 45 miles away from Bayou Corne Sinkhole!

reply to post by PuterMan


Puterman, I think we can use you as our resident seismic reader in this thread. It would be greatly appreciated!

To deadeye. I live on Hwy 1 which has heavy traffic going up and down Bayou Lafourche. Connects all the communities and is one of the main roads used for semi trucks. My house sits between Hwy 1 and Bayou Lafourche and the ground shakes ever so slightly when a truck passes.

Seismic waves travel better through solids than liquids. Problem is, a swamp is both pretty much a solid and a liquid. All of Southeast Louisiana for the most part is a swamp be it drained or not drained. The distance measured in Puterman's map shows the distance of the seismo to the road. In my opinion knowing the land and personal experience, .33 miles is a long distance for a wave created by a passing truck to travel on this type of soil. Puterman, you have any feedback on this? I am curious to find out more. Any experience of shallow seismic waves and swamps? Though I do believe you when you say that was traffic, if it was seismic activity from the hole it would of been picked up from other monitors.

reply to post by deadeyedick


I am fairly sure they will amplify them.

We have wet soggy soil here on the West coast of Ireland. If a bus or lorry goes up the road when you are standing on the side you can feel the road go up and down. Closest I have ever got to an earthquake!


@CajunBoy

In my opinion knowing the land and personal experience, .33 miles is a long distance for a wave created by a passing truck to travel on this type of soil. Puterman, you have any feedback on this?

Well first see above. Then remember that what you are actually seeing is the slower waves. Look on the right of the spectrogram and you can see these are around 4Hz. Quite a long wave and long waves travel well hence world radio is long wave and local radio is AM/FM

It is no different with seismic waves. The further from a quake or an event the more the wave attenuates until finally as the wave from a Mag 7 (say) makes it's way round the world for the second or third time the waves are down to 1 Hz or less, but may have started at 10 or 15 Hz.

Those 4Hz traffic signals you would not feel or hear. They are way below human hearing range.

reply to post by PuterMan


Same down here in Louisiana. I've never felt a quake before in my life but I can tell you these sugar cane trucks make the ground tremble when they pass. The only "seismic" activity with the hole has been at night. When people wake up and take a look at the hole, it had grown a little more. No one can figure out why TexasBrine only operates during daylight hours. What happens at night that causes these things to happen that doesn't happen during the day!?

reply to post by CajunBoy

What happens at night that causes these things to happen that doesn't happen during the day!?

Since I don't know exactly what they are doing I am not sure but my guess would be that if they are extracting brine by the solution method then the pumps are turned off at night. This might lead to a reduction of pressure perhaps?

reply to post by PuterMan


We need a resident petroleum engineer in this now lol. I can tell you this, the same question I just asked you was asked in the meeting, and no one could answer it. It doesn't look as though they are quick to look for the answer either. They should put 2 or 3 workers there at night to monitor the sinkhole. They have yet had a night where someone watched the hole. The only monitoring they do at night is at the vent well sites and it is only 1 person doing that work.

Originally posted by Honor93
reply to post by jadedANDcynical

 

snip

just off the cuff, if these were active a week ago, did they detect the recent growth of the sinkhole ?

Taking PM's info and looking back at the first map I posted I found that station LA09 is the closes monitor to the sinkhole itself. I went and looked at a couple of the recent day's plots, here is ordinal day 330 for example:



You can see the "spiky" signatures there that show sudden sharp movement that are much more verticle in nature than anything else on the plot. Those may represent sinkhole growth or at least motion more akin to something seismic. I will defer to PM's expertise on this obviously, but that is my initial take on those signatures.

You see lots of "fuzzy caterpillars" as Eric calls them and I would say that those are likely more trafric noise.

I did look and find this plot of ordinal day 331 interesting:



You can see the obvious difference beginning at a little after 11:00 UTC.

I think that this would be the result of the flaring they are doing at the vent well. If you've ever stood next to a flare during operation, you know that they can make the ground vibrate a good deal depending on the amount of pressure being released.

Both plots generated following PM's instructions for the Quack Interface

Originally posted by jadedANDcynical

You can see the "spiky" signatures there that show sudden sharp movement that are much more verticle in nature than anything else on the plot. Those may represent sinkhole growth or at least motion more akin to something seismic. I will defer to PM's expertise on this obviously, but that is my initial take on those signatures.

In my opinion they are far too short lived to be sink hole growth. I downloaded the SAC file for that signal and it looks and sounds more like electrical interference. The duration of the spike is only 1.2 seconds and I can't see a sinkhole wall collapse being that short.

You see lots of "fuzzy caterpillars" as Eric calls them and I would say that those are likely more trafric noise.

Sorry this sounds as if I am knocking everything you are saying. It is not intended as such. Just giving my opinion. Those look to me more like the sort of interference you might get either from electrical heaters in a seismo installation (aka caterpillars at Yellowstone) or in this instance what we may be seeing is the vibration from pumps perhaps.

see the comment re the 26th

I did look and find this plot of ordinal day 331 interesting:
You can see the obvious difference beginning at a little after 11:00 UTC.
I think that this would be the result of the flaring they are doing at the vent well. If you've ever stood next to a flare during operation, you know that they can make the ground vibrate a good deal depending on the amount of pressure being released.

My hearing is not what it used to be and I can't hear the 20Hz element of this sound file of the start of the long signal which is at 10 x speed. The higher 40Hz + I can hear and it does sound like a pump, followed by another pump. My guess anyway.

This is the WAV file produced direct from the seismo data, but at 2000 samples per second instead of 40

GS_LA09_BHZ_20121126-100000_2000sps.wav The file is zipped as otherwise it will start playing immediately on Windows installations which is against the T & C.

WARNING: This is a 1.4 Mb file so dial-up users be aware.

Basically none of this sounds seismic as in earthquakes.

reply to post by PuterMan

Sorry this sounds as if I am knocking everything you are saying. It is not intended as such. Just giving my opinion.

As your opinion on these matters is much more likely to be accurate than is mine, I don't see it as a knock at all. I'm happy you're giving us the benefit of your thoughts on this. Thank you.


I did not take into account the short duration of the signals I pointed out in the first plot. You're absolutely correct

Regards the second plot i posted, our explanations make perfect sense and as I do not have the ability to covert the data to sound, nor the experience to know what I'm listening to anyway, I have no problem in pointing out that I did say my earlier post indicated my lack of experience with this information.

theadvocate.com...

I am starting to get tired of this chicken and the egg argument between Texas Brine and DNR. Honor PMed me with something interesting and I did some research. DEQ Superfund sites are sites were the federal government pumps money into a site to clean up waste and debris. In my research I found that the only way to be deemed a SF site is if there is not soul party responsible. Well with this back and forth between Texas Brine and DNR will lead me to believe it will be a perpetual motion back and forth. It will lead to no soul group responsible in my opinion.

www.louisianaweekly.com... e-time

And here is a article about the life around the hole and how it effects residents.

reply to post by CajunBoy


So, we are starting to see some of the agenda behind the obfuscation. What we thought to be transparency from the agencies and companies involved is starting to look pretty cloudy now. And so goes the process of building sheds for their donkeys or as it is more commonly known "covering their a$$et$".

And special thanks to jadedANDcynical and PuterMan for their input on the seismic activity. I thought myself to be pretty "up" on things seismic, but I have learned a few new things from your posts. THANX

reply to post by happykat39


I've learned a lot as well, and I am really appreciative of there presence in this thread.

You are right about the transparency between the two parties. They are as transparent as the water in the bayous. Whatever way this pendulum swings between this two parties, the residents of the area are the losers. Not only the residents but the whole state of Louisiana. It goes to show you the corruption that plagues this state for decades.

I do have a certification in radiation handling and from the information I've seen so far the amount is in safe perimeters. It falls within the states acceptable limits. Thing is, we have been lied to before and they are probably lying about the radioactive materials as well.

reply to post by jadedANDcynical

I have no problem in pointing out that I did say my earlier post indicated my lack of experience with this information.

Yes I did realise that. I hope I did not come across too forcefully. I can sometimes.

By the way as an aside if you run Windows you can convert data to sound with my program. See my link. It is free in the standard version.

The Louisiana Sinkhole Bugle has just posted that a few of the monitors are active. I keep trying to learn from Puterman but earthquake science is much harder then I can do. So I linked the story for those who want to look.

Something BAD Now at LA03 & LA90 Seismic Monitors

Thing is, we have been lied to before and they are probably lying about the radioactive materials as well.

This made me laugh, it is not funny but sounds like the locals are not believing what the officials are saying. Below is a quote from the article CB linked earlier today. Texas Brine says no risk, local officials say there is a risk. Thank goodness the local officials can't be bought off to get the residence lip service like T. Brine does.

On Monday, Texas Brine shut one of its two vent wells burning off gas after a small amount of hazardous, hydrogen sulfide gas was released into the atmosphere. The company said the release didn’t present a public risk. The Assumption Parish Police Jury, however, warned residents that “H2S is an extremely dangerous gas. Unlike methane, it is heavier than air and collects at low-to-the-ground levels.”

reply to post by AuntB


There could be something to this, or not. CajunBoy has already nailed this site for a lot of misinformation, disinformation and sensationalism. If they clean up their act they could become a legitimate source.

I linked to THIS SITE way back on page 21 and CajunBoy's response is in the very next post.

I posted a link to this site earlier. There has now been an update to it

GEOLOGICAL UPHEAVAL: Tracking Developments at Louisiana Sinkhole - Is Radioactive Waste And Radiation Coming Up From The Ground?!

There are now further questions about the radioactive waste, and how it was handled, as well as the consequences for the residents of the area now and in the future.

Then there is this from The Stuart Smith Blog which is also linked to from the Celestial Convergence article in the above link.

Earlier this year, I joined with local activists like the Louisiana Bucket Brigade in calling for the federal Environmental Protection Agency to step in and take over the responsibilities of the Louisiana DEQ, which has been both overmatched and far too favorable to Big Oil and other industries. This is a textbook example of why. The people of Bayou Corne need to know what’s coming up from the ground, and they need to know whether that includes radioactive waste. And if Louisiana can’t provide those answers, they need to bring in someone who can.

reply to post by AuntB


OK LA09 looks like the pumps/venting and the normal traffic. Nothing strange on that one.

LA03 however is odd. Two signature are curious and in many respects identical. They are symmetrical and definitely not earthquakes. At this time I am having a problem identifying what they might be. I will get back to you on that.


This is the trace directly from the SAC file for all three channels for the event ~19:45



First of all let me say I do not believe it is seismic as in earthquake. The next question is could it be collapse of walls in the sink hole. No I do not believe it is mainly because there are two virtually identical signals and for that to happen in a pit wall collapse would be odd to say the least.

This is the spectrogram of the three channels.



The next problem is that IF this was a wall collapse there would not be the pattern that you see there. It would be progressive. I also suspect that it would be much quicker than 8 minutes of more that this sequence takes. * minutes however excludes traffic for these two events.

We were talking about venting earlier. Could this be venting.? That would explain the symmetrical pattern and the length of time.

One other point the signal is 'bent' as you can see on the first traces. This only happens to the E and N channels and not to the Z channel which is odd except that (and here I cannot swear by this) the electronics of the seismo for those two elements would be in the same plane but at 90 degrees to each other I would imagine. If they are in the same plane they could be affected by a signal that did not affect the Z channel which would be in a plane at 90 degrees to them and possibly shielded by it's casing. Just my thoughts out aloud on that.

I have seen similar, but not identical, signals where seismos are sited in sub stations or by generators (yes it happens) and are affected by the electrical fields. The latter part of the signal has the sharp look of a seismic signal but bear in mind that this signal is ONLY seen on LA03 and that 100% makes it something specific to that instrument.

I have to be honest and say that I cannot definitely pinpoint what this is for these two signals. I am still playing with the sound files so if I come up with anything I will let you know.

ETA: Have a listen for yourselves. 92Kb flac file.

reply to post by happykat39


I have just been told by the site owner that I need to scroll through his site to learn how to read a seismo

I did as instructed and then find they are attributing the signal from the Queen Charlotte Islands 6.4 on October 28th to activity round the sink hole that was curiously synchronous.

Yup I guess it would be!

I don't think I will bother to go there again.

reply to post by happykat39
Aahh Happycat, thanks for bringing that back to my attention. I had forget BB's reaction to the Bugle thread.

I heard being late to the party, but this just takes the cake.

LOL!!!!

Okay, bugle thread is to be read with caution. List so far is Enenews, Examiner and the Bugle.

reply to post by AuntB


And don't forget to add "Before Its News" to the $()!^ list.