IF time travel existed time would cease to exist, and since time exists, time travel can not

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posted on Oct, 6 2012 @ 06:40 AM
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reply to post by Nedusa
 
grey and rainbows




posted on Oct, 6 2012 @ 06:51 AM
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I think it works something like this:

Every possible outcome of a choice has already occured and each outcome has created a timeline. Dont think of time as linear. Its only our conciousness that plays up events in a linear way at a certain pace. We call that time and think of it as outside ourselves, but in reality its inside ourselves. Just like this entire reality for that matter. But I will try and stay on topic.

Time doesnt actually exist outside this matrix reality, so when people get hints of the future, its a possible future in their current timeline. Its not a guarantee, because it all depends on the choices people make in their lives. We create this reality collectively by our choices. Its kind of obvious when you think about it. We make up the human family on this planet. Our choices are all that matters for our own future.

So in effect, every time you make a choice, you pick the timeline where that choice was already made. If you were to time travel to the past, you cant meet the same you, but you could meet a version of yourself on a separate timeline. So the grandfather paradox doesnt occur because you dont meet yourself on the same timeline. You meet a version of yourself on another timeline.

People who have out of body experiences can sometimes confirm this for themselves. You can go anywhere just by thinking about it. This is because you make a choice and you get to see that timeline.

So why dont we see people pop out left and right from the future? It could be because on our current timeline, time travel doesnt exist yet. The technology or conciousness to do it physically is not a reality yet. So that would prevent it from occuring on this timeline.

Naturally this entire post is speculation. But its interesting to think about. And I dont believe travelling in time is impossible. I believe its just not possible with our current understanding of reality. Specially since time doesnt actually exist outside of our conciousness.


edit on 6-10-2012 by Bodhi911 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 6 2012 @ 08:26 AM
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Hold on a minute, time needs to exist in order for time travel to exist (if it does of course). My brain almost fell out trying to figure that by the way



posted on Oct, 6 2012 @ 08:59 AM
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Time is not a dimension, but a measurement. That measurement we discern by means of repeating patterns.

Timelessness is the wall upon which this universe has been painted.

The measurement of time itself is abstract. The "second" is completely abstract. The "hour" is completely abstract.

What; do we invent a time machine that uses the current Calendar? Really? Oh wait. I remember.

Scientists speculated that we might be able to associate the position of the stars in relation to the planet and determine the point in "time" to which we might "travel". But then how in the world are you going to come up with a formula that determines EVERY SINGLE TINY LITTLE KINETIC EVENT THAT HAS OCCURRED SINCE THE TIME TO WHICH YOU WOULD LIKE TO ATTEMPT TO TRAVEL? Because if you would like to go back in "time", if it is truly a line and not a ray (which it is neither in reality anyhow), you would need to determine every single kinetic event that ever took place to understand the position of all things in the universe at a particular "time" - because there are so many varied repeating patterns, that any supposed marker on a pattern might not correlate perfectly to another pattern in the universe (which, mathematically speaking, is made up of so many different numbering systems that it still astounds me that scientists continue to perform math only using the decimal system - which we use because we have... [look at your hands now]... yes, because we still count on our fingers.)

And let us assume then that "time" is a set of infinite systems and each of these intersect with each other at some certain point so that all "events" are not only connected to something, but to all other events and all other things and all other possibilities that must have "happened" somewhere (or sometime?). Ridiculous even more. Even the best mathematician knows that this is ridiculous and I am surprised that any self-respecting number geek would even entertain the idea that there is a geometric structure with infinite dimensions (sides, side lengths, angles, angle degrees, points [and further points that take up the same exactly "time" and space, which would inevitably be required of all points, and yet none of them at the same time...])

Foolishness; completely and utterly.

I am always shocked to see how great minds fascinate themselves with the stupidest of ideas - no wonder there is no advancement. The great minds waste their times trying to fabricate fantasies to entertain themselves, while they are paid tenure at that. Disgusting.

And worse that those of you that aren't even capable of understanding what all of this actually means; or you are incapable of even imagining what would actually be required - you not only willingly offer your opinion on the matter (which is completely acceptable), but you take it one step further and claim that anyone who says any different just simply does not understand (because your ivory tower magicians have charmed you and you follow them; and for what? what kind of a religion is MATHEMATICS anyway? It's very easy and also very boring after a while - if you're doing it properly.) - and yet you are the ones that clearly do not understand a cent of it; or any other thing, except that you desire a certain thing because your imagination was touched pleasurably and you followed that pleasure ever since and you condemn anyone who offends your obnoxious know-it-all girlfriend, math.

Which, I might add, is even more abstract than the very time that you claim exists in the physical reality as something more than a simple measurement - a symbol! That's it!

You've made an idol for yourselves that appears so much like the Truth but is in fact nothing of the sort.


The OP has played out a scenario for you in which a human with human emotions, possessing a time machine, follows the human emotions logically to the end that any curious time traveler might; and takes you on a small journey into the realm of understanding - the end of the idea of time travel, when traveled, begets nothing but contradiction and foolishness.

The OP is right.

I'm surprised they haven't invented a particle for "time" like they have for everything else in a most ridiculous way.

I'll coin it here first, in sarcasm, in the event anyone is so bold as to attempt to put forth such an idea.

If you find the "time" particle (though we KNOW it is but a MEASUREMENT), then It shall from henceforth be called, "tempon". Yes; there are a variety of reasons for my choice of this name... the most important being that the idea will be very TEMPORARY - and a little also because of the monthly anger anyone might feel concerning such a silly notion that is entertained as if it is mainstream fact.



posted on Oct, 6 2012 @ 10:18 AM
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Originally posted by AlchemistSwami
if you were to go back in time you would only be able to alter the future, but you can not go back to a future that doesn't exist, which the one you came from would not, once you alter it, which invariably you would, alter it, just by going back in time.
edit on 6-10-2012 by AlchemistSwami because: spelling
edit on 6-10-2012 by AlchemistSwami because: punc.




posted on Oct, 6 2012 @ 10:19 AM
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reply to post by AlchemistSwami
 


Your first assumption is that Time exists.

I would seriously reconsider that premise.

Consider this:

If Time actually existed, it would be, like All things that exist, an independently, discreetly quantifiable entity: it would posses inherently discernable bounderies, defining what is, from what is not a part of itself: the way we can, for example, determine what is, and what is not, an apple, when compared to an orange.

Or even when compared to Another apple; since even the two apples are discreet entities in and of, themselves.


One cannot do this with Time.

Yes, we can arbitrarily divide what we "perceive" as Time into discreet units (days, weeks, hours, seconds, etc.), but these divisions are perceptual convienences at best: they do not actually effect Time itself in any signficant way, as would, say slicing an apple into pieces would fundamentally change the structure of the subject apple.


If Time existed as an actual, quantifiable entity, we should be able to divvy up Time into actual, discreet portions (hours, seconds, milliseconds, etc.). But what, then, would exist Between the portion we've "extracted" and the Next portion?

If Time exists, as you seem to argue, like "beads on a string", then what lies between the beads, where there is no "Time": where the discreet essence of one "moment of Time" ends and another begins?

And if there exists a quantifiable "gap" between the end of one "moment" and the start of another, this "gap" must be, by nature of the definition of Time, b]NotTime.

But, if each "particle of Time" is preceded and followed by a period of "No Time", thus defining the individual "moments" of Time, Do you see that there can then be no "passage of Time"; no Past, Present, or Future, since this would require that Time would be able to "flow through" these periods of "No Time", thus extinguishing them.

Thus, we must conclude that Time cannot exist, as we are wont to preceive it at least, as a "series of moments", or "points (of Time) on a line"; at best, we can say that Time appears to be a "line", unbroken and indivisable.

Or, perhaps it would be more accurate to say, counter-intuitively and much to our confoundment, that Time only, truly, exists as a figment of our limited preceptional abilities.

Thus:

Your second assumption is that since Time exists, we cannot travel backwards to a certain point in Time.


I would then argue that, since it is apparant that Time, at least as you have presented the concept, does Not exist, it therefore may be possible to "travel" in any direction of "Time" one desires.



posted on Oct, 6 2012 @ 10:46 AM
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Originally posted by AlchemistSwami
if you were to go back in time you would only be able to alter the future, but you can not go back to a future that doesn't exist, which the one you came from would not, once you alter it, which invariably you would, alter it, just by going back in time.
once there you would have to live in that time until a time that you decided to go back in time again and alter that future, even if you believed it would alter the future you changed the first time, having gone back, in time, to your new future
this would repeat until you decided to satisfy your reason for going back in time the next time, you would choose to go further back in time to a past beyond the time you have previously been. once there you would have again altered the future, and again thus reset all futures, that do not yet exist.
you would continually do this and live almost for all time until eventually you went so far back, after having seen all moments in time, you chose to go to the beginning of time. when you did, there would be no future of time and time wouldn't exist at that moment.
having reset all of the history of the future, time would cease to exist, at the beginning, of time. just before this happened, for that moment in time before the beginning of time, on your way there, time travel exists as time ceases to, and since time exists, after you finish reading these thoughts, in this future, as we know it now, since time exists, time travel can not.
if it did, we would have all spontaneously ceased to exist, as we would all collectively be in a future that was about to be altered, reset, erased from an earlier moment in a previous time, yet we are not. not yet. we are here
edit on 6-10-2012 by AlchemistSwami because: spelling
edit on 6-10-2012 by AlchemistSwami because: punc.


Maybe time travel is actually inter-dimensional travel?

Let's say you think that you are going back in time and do something that you think will profit you or the world.

But when you get back to your current time period...nothing has changed.

That would be the proof of other dimensions. You have changed another dimension time line, but not yours. And who is to say that was'nt the way it was supposed to play out anyways.

Fate.



posted on Oct, 6 2012 @ 10:53 AM
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this is a stupid thread. Time travel is possible and happens every sec. We are all traveling into the future. Gravity can bend time to slow it down or speed it up. There for a person could theoretically travel foward to anytime after they were born.

Also the universe is well beyond our comprehension so who knows the possiblities. As for this post... DENY IGNORANCE>>>>>> makin a statement like this is Accepting Ignorance. Go row a boat


Time doesn't exist? Time is just a name to the way we percieve moving forward into the future.



posted on Oct, 6 2012 @ 11:46 AM
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reply to post by AlchemistSwami
 


If you view time and all time, past present and future, as an mp3 or dvd disc, all of the information is already there, but you can only view that information one second at a time. If you were to travel into the past, then that action alone was already part of the altered future "present".

So what i am saying is that, if you were to go to that past, then that is exactly how it was supposed to happen, so in this past what ever you do, will bring about the future that you came from and called the present.

Meaning time is an illusion, it is just one being viewing a life and experience which consists of all experiences in the universe and dimensions with multiple mediums one EXPERIENCE at a time.

But time does only exists as NOW, as in, i am typing this message at this TIME.



posted on Oct, 6 2012 @ 12:12 PM
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I wish i had time read all this...

maybe i will go back later to the beginning and read the whole thread.



posted on Oct, 6 2012 @ 12:31 PM
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reply to post by AlchemistSwami
 


Too bad we can't just cause the solar system to cycle in the opposite direction?

Interesting stuff for sure!





posted on Oct, 6 2012 @ 12:48 PM
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All times exist simultaneously and independent of each other. Therefore, you can go back and forth to different times.



posted on Oct, 6 2012 @ 01:59 PM
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reply to post by fasteronfire
 


Love your Blake quote "Patriotism is a virtue of the vicious" Oscar Wilde



posted on Oct, 6 2012 @ 03:07 PM
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Originally posted by Mandrakerealmz
reply to post by AlchemistSwami
 

Have you considered the possibility of multiple timelines. An infinite amount of them.

I liked a lot that comment, you got that right. Time is not a single railroad, that is just how it looks from our current perspective.



posted on Oct, 6 2012 @ 07:29 PM
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reply to post by AlchemistSwami
 

Brilliant post! Very well thought out. The concept of time travel scares me. People could do some awful things.



posted on Oct, 6 2012 @ 08:20 PM
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I too have heard the tired old chestnut, Where are all the time travelers , if time travel is real. This has always puzzle me, because I do indeed believe that time travel is real. I came to the conclusion that the reason there are no time travellers walking around is because the human race won't be around long enough to create time travel in the first place.



posted on Oct, 6 2012 @ 08:46 PM
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reply to post by AlchemistSwami
 



First of all, "time" does not "exist" in the first place.
it's a concept.. an idea. not something of substance that can or cant exist.

i think you need to understand that first and rethink your concept.

secondly.. quantum theoretical physicists are now saying that multiverses exist.. each probability and outcome all simultaneously exist all at once... so there are versions of your reality where you went back in time and versions where you didn't.



posted on Oct, 6 2012 @ 08:59 PM
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Time travel is possible...BECAUSE time does not exist.

The term "Time Travel" is faulty. The things in the past are still happening, they are not over. And to me that would suggest the past is feasibly reachable.

The moments you experience are just the sequence of the infinite that you can perceive. I've been writing this post for an eternity, and will be writing it for an eternity more. But as far as I can tell, I've spent about a minute on it and am reaching the end.

Reality is weird isn't it?

All moments, things, and possibilities exist at all times and in all places. The problem with understanding that, is incorporating the fact there is no time or space.



posted on Oct, 6 2012 @ 09:00 PM
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reply to post by AlchemistSwami
 


Time is nothing physical.

If you drip water into a pond you create ripples. The rippes travel over the same fabric but are in a slightly different position.

If you consider the creation of the universe as a series of big bangs as per above you could use the fabric between ripples to get to an alternate universe either the ripples ahead or behind. Depending on the ripple you are orginally based would determine how for forward or back you could go.

Regards



posted on Oct, 7 2012 @ 03:24 AM
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reply to post by drevill
 


I note you are from Sheffield. I am originally from Hull (worked in Sheffield regularly in the 60's in The Moor and Attercliffe) but have lived in Australia for the past 45 years. I came to the conclusion that time had definitely stood still for us Tykes as we didn't seem to have made much progress at all.

We should never rule out the possibility of time travel as us humans have a capacity to conquer anything hitherto regarded as impossible. The frightening aspect to all this is that we might find out things about our origins and history that we would prefer not to accept. (Ends post to the "Twilight Zone" theme music).





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