For those who think it is irresponsible not to get vaccinated

reply to post by thebtheb


flu shot.... the flu won't kill me unless i am very old or a very weak infant..... yet they want me to take a flu shot full of heavy metals... to possibly prevent me from getting a non lethal infection..

thanks but no thanks..

reply to post by thebtheb


As a kid I had whooping cough,mumps,chicken pox. In my 20's there was a meningitis scare in my area. I went to the doctor about the lumps in my neck which I knew were lymph nodes and the doctor said they were bug bite. I went to the place where they where doing mass injections for meningitis and got the vaccine. My lymph nodes went down. It taught me right there that some doctors are really bad and trust your instincts. I don't get flu shots because it is a crap shoot which type of virus it is. I rarely get sick but I did get the the flu when the swine flu went around. It is better to let your body build up immunity naturally than forcing with vaccines(flu) with chemicals but then again some are good to. You can't immunize or sterilize everything so when a another big bug comes along your body wont able to fight it. Don't be afraid to get dirty

reply to post by thebtheb


i agree ill take my chances by not getting injected.

Originally posted by luciddream

Originally posted by drevill
Ha ha

If people read what was in them they wouldn,t touch them. Not one piece of 100% proof they have saved lives as they can also be attributed to improved hygiene and pharmacuticles. Not only that what are these people worrying about? They shouldn't be able to catch anything according from anyone.

Regards

No 100% proof they saved life? find me someone with polio? chicken pox? oh right! they magically disappeared.

I know whats in them.. thy don;t have full active viruses, they have dead virus in them. Reason you get "slightly sick" is because you body does not care if its dead or not, it activates 100% defense and attack the vaccine as a full blown threat, thus creating anti-bodies for the actual virus you may get.

edit: should note that you should not get all the vaccine they give you, esp like HPV vaccine, a healthy person who is not promiscuous should not need to worry about that. Get vaccines that are developed long ago and known to treat and eradicate the virus from human populations, like Polio, chicken pox etc. Most of you are alive and healthy and have all your limbs is because you received the DTPP vaccine shot as a baby.

Source: i am a microbiologist, if not, Centre for Disease Control

edit on 10/5/2012 by luciddream because: (no reason given)

edit on 10/5/2012 by luciddream because: (no reason given)

edit on 10/5/2012 by luciddream because: (no reason given)

sorry, can't stop laughing

the vaccine for chicken pox is relatively new, not old.

www.vaccineinformation.org...
After many years of development, it was licensed in the United States in 1995.

the vaccine administered in the US doesn't even have a 20yr history yet.
it hasn't even reached the "legal age of maturity or 18"

eradicated you say ?? are you sure about that ?

shotofprevention.com...
FL - April 2012 -- According to recent reports in The Gainesville Sun, there is a chickenpox outbreak in Florida that has recently spread to five different schools. Currently, the outbreak involves 65 cases in which 26 children were infected from the Bhaktivedanta Academy, 25 children from the Alachua Learning Center, one child in a public school and 13 others — four adults, eight children and one infant.

www.alaskapublic.org...
Alaska - 4 days ago -- An above-average number of reported cases of chickenpox, varicella by its scientific name, have worried state public health officials enough that they sent out a statewide alert Friday.

dead virus you say ?? really now ??

same source as above
The chickenpox vaccine is a [color=amber] live attenuated vaccine.
- snip -
In 2005, a combination vaccine containing live attenuated measles-mumps-rubella and varicella (MMRV) vaccine was licensed for use in people age 12 months through age 12 years.

www.ask.com...
The varicella vaccine is a live (attenuated) virus that protects against the viral disease commonly known as chickenpox caused by the varicella zoster virus (VZV).

and you expect us to believe you're a microbiologist ??

in case you aren't up on some of the latest news or are over 50yrs old ... you might want to consider this ...

www.prnewswire.com...
PEARBLOSSOM, Calif., Sept. 1 /PRNewswire/ -- New research published in the International Journal of Toxicology (IJT) by Gary S. Goldman, Ph.D., reveals high rates of shingles (herpes zoster) in Americans since the government's 1995 recommendation that all children receive chicken pox vaccine.

Goldman's [color=amber]research supports that shingles, which results in three times as many deaths
and five times the number of hospitalizations as chicken pox, is suppressed naturally by occasional contact with chicken pox.

not enough room, continued next post ...

Originally posted by thebtheb

Originally posted by flashtrum
reply to post by thebtheb

 

There is a Whooping cough outbreak in the United States directly attributed to the lack of people getting vaccinated against it. Jenny McCarthy mislead a great deal of people coming out against vaccines and attempting to blame their usage on autism. While it is true that since the early 90's autism is on the rise, that was not the case in the 60's/70's and 80's when it was a given that you vaccinated your child.

Allowing the viruses that cause these outbreaks back into a general population also allows them to mutate, which renders the vaccine useless. We should have NEVER tried to fix what was not broken.

Whooping cough did not fully disappear. There have been outbreaks of almost everything throughout the decades that people have been getting vaccinated for including measles, whooping cough, etc. There is absolutely no proof whatsoever that the outbreak in the US is because of people not vaccinating, only a suggestion that remains unproven.

Yes, autism was not the case in the 60s,70s and 80s, and children still got vaccinated. And yes, autism did explode in the early 90s, just a couple of short years after childhood vaccinations more than tripled. In the 70s, there were so many vaccinations, really just a couple. By the early 90s, kids were receiving, 4, 5, 6 times the amount of vaccines they did just a decade earlier. So it would be very easy to make a case that the problems started directly after the new recommendations for so many more vaccinations.

And your last statement is true - we should NOT have tried to fix what was never broken. Giving all newborns a hepatitis B shot is one of the stupidest things they could do. Hepatitis B is gotten from: a blood transfusion, unprotected sex, intravenous drugs, or passed on from the birth mother. Exactly how many babies fall into those categories. And by the time they're 10, the antibodies are gone, so they have to have another one - so the first one is essentially useless.

Whooping Cough may not have fully disappeared but it was certainly under control in the west.

I'm not saying I don't believe you, but what is your source for the data that vaccinations tripled in the early 90's, and are you saying worldwide or in the western world? Worldwide would simply be because organizations made them more available, In the US is where the autism spike happened. But I can tell you as a child of the 70's, if it was found out that you didn't get vaccinated, kids tended to alienate you.

Look, I'm not saying there are not issues with certain shots. I've NEVER had a flu shot despite doctors and pharmacists almost suggesting I would die without one. Yet my last case of the flu was in 4th grade and I am in my 40's.

You can't argue that the polio vaccine, in the US, was successful. Same with Whooping Cough.

Look, there is probably not a government program out there that either is seriously flawed or at least somewhat unsuccessful. And I am a conservative. But the data tells me vaccinating your infant does not cause autism, and it gives some insurance that these kids won't get life threatening illnesses. Hep B, you have a point.

Let me ask you this - if you are a dog owner, and the vet says your dog needs a kennel cough shot, are you resisting that because all vaccines are bad? I understand my question is a bit of a stretch but think about it.

I have two healthy young boys. One born in 93, the other in 2000. They both were vaccinated and given booster shots. And yet the only hospital stay between them was my youngest kept getting ear infections and eventually required drain tubes. After that, no more ear infections. So my experience, and my families experience, is that getting vaccinated certainly didn't harm us and most likely kept us from any number of viruses.

Originally posted by AceWombat04
reply to post by dogstar23

 

I know this is anecdotal on my part, but I had a multi-dose vial last year and hoooly crud I felt awful. I've never felt that bad from a flu shot before, and as someone with asthma and who gets VERY ill from the flu (I can tell the difference between it and a cold, believe me) I get one every year. So I suspect there may be some truth in what you just said. I will ensure I'm getting single dose vials from now on.

This is why, and health, be it food, exercise, or medicine, is kinda my "area of expertise" (not job), but this is why I like to acknowledge different viewpoints. I could shout at the top of my lungs "don't get the flu vaccine!", but only those who don't want it, won't get it. In this, and many things, we can all improve our situations by knowing a little bit more. You're a guy (or gal) who is going to get the vaccine, but at least now you'll be making the better decision to go with the safer single-dose vial.

I just wish we would all acknowledge that irovement is improvement, and even if we knew all the "facts", we still wouldn't all make the same decision. So good for you for doing what you all feel is best for you. Now if more of us could stop thinking there is only one way (or the other way), we could all be at least a little better off...a little closer to solving our problems.

And thank you, I feel like with all of my studies of the topic, a little moderation where I once was probably a bit of an "extremist" maybe helped someone, at least in a small way

reply to post by luciddream

continued from previous post ... same source

www.prnewswire.com...
Goldman's analysis in IJT indicates that effectiveness of the chickenpox vaccine itself is also dependent on natural boosting, [color=amber] so that as chickenpox declines, so does the effectiveness of the vaccine.

"The principal reason that vaccinees in Japan maintained high levels of immunity 20 years following vaccination was that only 1 in 5 (or 20%) of Japanese children were vaccinated," he said.
"So those vaccinated received immunologic boosting from contact with children with natural chickenpox. But the universal varicella vaccination program in the U.S. will nearly eradicate this natural boosting mechanism and will leave our population vulnerable to shingles epidemics."

psssst ... anyone reading about the current pox outbreak in Fl, do note, one vaccinated student DID become sickly and although the story emphasizes those who were un-vaccinated, i'd like to point out that the likelihood of vaccine shedding from ONE isn't even mentioned.

so, keep in mind, the chicken pox disease, even with vaccine, has NOT been eradicated.

also, this is FL, the story doesn't mention if the infected children were refugees, unchecked migrants, illegal immigrants or were even aware that vaccines were available ... all of which play a significant role in how the disease evolved in this particular group and region.

I am not very pro-vaccine myself, and I'm not sure if anyone posted this comment before me - but that should only apply to "live" vaccines, of which there are only a small number. Most are not live. I know because I am a transplant patient and there are a couple that my children cannot have because I am on immunosuppressive meds for transplant and cannot be exposed to the live viruses - so yes, you are right, to a point.

Whooping Cough may not have fully disappeared but it was certainly under control in the west.

I'm not saying I don't believe you, but what is your source for the data that vaccinations tripled in the early 90's, and are you saying worldwide or in the western world? Worldwide would simply be because organizations made them more available, In the US is where the autism spike happened. But I can tell you as a child of the 70's, if it was found out that you didn't get vaccinated, kids tended to alienate you.

Look, I'm not saying there are not issues with certain shots. I've NEVER had a flu shot despite doctors and pharmacists almost suggesting I would die without one. Yet my last case of the flu was in 4th grade and I am in my 40's.

You can't argue that the polio vaccine, in the US, was successful. Same with Whooping Cough.

Look, there is probably not a government program out there that either is seriously flawed or at least somewhat unsuccessful. And I am a conservative. But the data tells me vaccinating your infant does not cause autism, and it gives some insurance that these kids won't get life threatening illnesses. Hep B, you have a point.

Let me ask you this - if you are a dog owner, and the vet says your dog needs a kennel cough shot, are you resisting that because all vaccines are bad? I understand my question is a bit of a stretch but think about it.

I have two healthy young boys. One born in 93, the other in 2000. They both were vaccinated and given booster shots. And yet the only hospital stay between them was my youngest kept getting ear infections and eventually required drain tubes. After that, no more ear infections. So my experience, and my families experience, is that getting vaccinated certainly didn't harm us and most likely kept us from any number of viruses.


It's pretty common knowledge that the recommendations for vaccines today are in many cases literally 10 times what they were in the 70s for children. Most children below the age of 10 in the 70s had gotten 7 vaccinations. There now children in the US getting 70 vaccinations before they age of 5. This upswing started in the early 90s. And yes, mainly in the States, and that mainly IS where the autism spike occured, and also where the explosion in peanut allergies occurred. I remember my nephew was only 15, and he was visiting from Mexico, and he said he thought it was pretty weird that one nation had this sudden huge problem with peanuts, and few others did.

Interesting about the dog owner thing. They have found that dogs and cats get cancer in their limbs, and they have proven it conclusively linked to vaccinations. The site of the vaccination retains a certain amount of antibodies, and the antibodies can attack that limb. In fact, the veterinary guidelines were changed to read that vets should give animals as few vaccines as possible. Few vets pay attention to this however because they're hesitant due to the possibility of something happening to the animal, and then being blamed.

Originally posted by daryllyn
[color=dodgerblue] We no longer receive vaccinations in this house.

I cannot prove a link, but after receiving a series of several vaccinations that were required for entering the nursing program at the school I was attending at the time, my health went downhill. After three years of being jerked around by doctors who would not listen, I was diagnosed with rheumatoid arthritis.

Like I said, I can't prove a link, but, I was super healthy and rarely sick up to that point. I guess I will never know for sure either way. The only thing I do know for certain is that my life hasn't been the same since and my children will not be subjected to that garbage.

edit on 5-10-2012 by daryllyn because: (no reason given)

neither should they be and i applaud your decision. even if some vaccines have had the thimerosal removed/replaced, it is still used during the manufacture of the vaccine. and who wants to run the risk of nerve damage from mercury compounds?

Originally posted by saintinwaiting
I am not very pro-vaccine myself, and I'm not sure if anyone posted this comment before me - but that should only apply to "live" vaccines, of which there are only a small number. Most are not live. I know because I am a transplant patient and there are a couple that my children cannot have because I am on immunosuppressive meds for transplant and cannot be exposed to the live viruses - so yes, you are right, to a point.

No, not all are live virus, but the MMR, small pox, varicella, some flu shots (both are usually made) and until more recently, the polio vaccine, (but the polio one has been discontinued, but reasons I mentioned in my OP). I'd say the MMR (Measles, Mumps, Rubella) is a very common vaccination for children.

At any rate, my only real point in this OP is that it can happen, so I don't see how anyone can point at me and say since I don't get vaccinated that I'm putting anyone else in danger. They would have to then also acknowledge the danger that some vaccinated people are putting them in too. In fact, an unvaccinated person may or may not end up carrying a virus, but some vaccinated people definitely will. For me, this is mainly an idea of logical and fairness. As I stated in my OP, I have no problem if people want to get vaccinated, but when they tell me I'm endangering others, I want to remind people that vaccinated people can also endanger others. Plan and simple.

reply to post by luciddream
Do you have rewards cards ? That is how much they want to track you .
Still I haven't noticed a post saying that those Vaccines have Ethyl Mercury in them as a preservative . They will say that your body will excrete it but another doctor says that organic mercury will cling to sugars and then you will absorb it . How many vaccines / doses do you want . The Mercury causes neurological problems and your previous exposures will combine to create a higher exposure and effects .
As far as tracking you your phone is already doing that .

reply to post by SimonPeter

As far as tracking you your phone is already doing that .

luckily, only when we're together and that's not too often these days
even when we are together, there is usually a microwave door between us

(for those who don't know, the signal is instantly blocked when a cell is placed inside a microwave and the door closed -- DO NOT turn it on [the microwave])

My oldest son was vaccinated for pertussis at 3 months old. 5 days after receiving he became extremely ill. What started as cold symptoms quickly escalated to respiratory distress. Needless to say, he was admitted to the hospital. While running tests, we were told that my son was being put into isolation. We were not allowed to touch my son unless we had on a gown, masks and gloves.

He had become infected with the pertussis virus. AFTER receiving the injection. He came extremely close to death in the month he spent in ICU.

My youngest son did not receive that vaccination. And he never will. I don't care if they tell you the virus they are injecting is inactive and designed solely for the purpose of KEEPING you from getting it. You CAN get sick from vaccinations. My son is proof of that. As a mother all I wanted was to keep my children safe, and so I listened to the doctors when they said that vaccinations were best. That was a mistake I will never forgive myself for, because it very nearly killed my son.

chicken pox vaccine, really. REALLY?!

chicken pox while young, is easy to deal with, and causes your body (in 99.99999% of people) to form its own, PERMANENT immunity to the disease.

Those who get it when they're older (age 25+) get deathly ill from it and can have serious downtime/symptoms.

I remember being in second or third grade, my mom hearing someone in school had chicken pox and MAKING ME GO TO SCHOOL AND GET SICK! Most parents felt this way back then.

www.youtube.com...

I think George Carlin is VERY RELEVANT to this discussion.

It's true. If you don't use your muscles, they get weaker. If you don't use your immune system, you get sick easier.

Originally posted by votan
reply to post by thebtheb

 

flu shot.... the flu won't kill me unless i am very old or a very weak infant..... yet they want me to take a flu shot full of heavy metals... to possibly prevent me from getting a non lethal infection..

thanks but no thanks..

Oh dear, the ignorance. The bird flu outbreak a couple of years back was killing healthy people why ? The answer is that the immune system of these healthy people went into "overdrive" (we can go into in-depth descriptions about T-cells etc but i suspect given the low intelligence of this whole thread it will be way way way over folks heads). Anyhow the immune system went into "overdrive" and basically killed the individual. So if you think you are very healthy and you get bird flu you are MORE likely to die.

This whole thread is great, Darwinism at its best. I look on the bright side and see a more healthy human population once all the paranoid anti-vaccine people die. Shame about their kids having no choice in the matter though.

Just in-case there are some folks who are being led , remember it only takes one case to make a headline and be used as evidence by morons of absolutely anything. It takes thousands of cases to make an assessment of effectiveness. This is a thread of one-off headlines.............

reply to post by yorkshirelad

oh dear, another who thinks vaccination is somehow comparable with immune suppression

for those who are capable of reading for themselves (quite a few on this thread), you may find this article interesting ...

www.elements4health.com...
The new results suggest that drugs aimed at the dangerous immune response may offer a life-saving new line of defense, by protecting infected hosts from themselves. Another bonus is that such an approach doesn’t put the same pressure on viruses to adapt and develop drug resistance.

The cytokines associated with flu infection were thought to come from virus-infected cells found primarily in the lungs and nasal passages. The authors find that the cytokines are instead released from the endothelial cells that line blood vessels. A protein found on the surface of endothelial cells, called Sphingosine-1-phosphate receptor (S1P1), is essential for flu-associated cytokine storms.

In mice treated with a molecule that targets S1P1, cytokine production and the early signs of inflammation are suppressed. As a result, the animals are much more likely to survive infection with H1N1 swine flu virus. Notably, several companies are already testing S1P1-targeted drugs in clinical trials, the researchers say.

which only serves to reinforce the concept that vaccinating to enhance the immune response is dangerous and potentially deadly.

Ca 1980 a large number of Gay Men volunteered to be test subjects receiving the Hepatitus B Vaccine. It appears that a portion of the serum was tainted with the Aids Virus. And the rest is History. Accident? Deliberate? Fact? Fiction? The MSM won't tell you. Remember the Syphilis/Black Men 'Study' ? How many years passed before that Tid-Bit came out? We are Pawns in 'Their' game. Be afraid. Be very afraid.

reply to post by yorkshirelad


With the Agenda 21 population Reduction scheme I think a lot of people doubt the safety of vaccines , especially since D.Rockefeller has his hands in the whole thing . He publicly made a statement on camera that an 80% reduction was needed . I'm pretty sure he has dealings with big pharma .
Then answer for me why did the Dutch work so hard to produce a highly transmissible Avian flu . There was evidently a competition going on to make it more deadly . For what ? And who funded the Billions for that research ?
You evidently have not seen the Bill Gates video where he wants to improve health in the video but strongly discusses population reduction . He is part of the Global government Bilderberg group who is pushing Sustainable Development / Agenda 21 . Why should we be concerned why all of these vaccines (his words ) should be used to control population ?
No worries here .

I'll just keep this comment to flu vaccinations.

I was in the USAF. Annual flu vaccines were mandatory. Each year I did my "duty" and got the vaccine. Each year I came down with a "mild" form of the flu. "Mild" meant feeling terrible, coughing, rusty throat, sneezing, runnny nose, yada yada yada. I decided NOT to get the annual flu vaccine. I got emails reminding me, urging me and strongly suggesting for me to get the vaccine. I ignored them, expecting backlash. Luckily for me, no one pushed the issue with me. Guess what?

That year, I did not contract the flu, not even in the "mild" form. I never got the flu shot again. And, consequently, I never came down with the "flu." Sure, I've had a few minor colds, but nothing like the flu I always got after the shot. I agree with the premise of the OP, and it is a premise that I have postulated to anyone I've ever discussed this issue with. And here it is in a nutshell...

When you get vaccinated for the flu, you likely develop (at the very least) a "mild" form of the flu (which can be quite severe), and you become CONTAGIOUS, passing the flu to those people around you. This effect, as you can estimate, can become EXPONENTIAL. When in doubt about things, it is wise to FOLLOW THE MONEY.

"Following the money" simply means tracing the end result to see who benefits from a situation. For vaccines, "big pharma" corporations make billions, and the corporations that sell over-the-counter flu remedies make billions. Think about it: one aspect of the industry makes people sick; the other aspect of the industry relieves the symptoms. There is a HUGE amount of money involved here! Think about mainstream media that is supported by DRUG ADVERTISEMENTS of all kinds. So... do you think media will TRULY report negative facts about the industries that purchase BILLIONS in advertising from them? See the cycle, see the circle?

And who are the people greasing these economic wheels? Us. We the People.