For those who think it is irresponsible not to get vaccinated

reply to post by thebtheb


How reliable is that context, cases towards vaccination ? What has really happened in Sweden what causes the rise of that is immigration after 1990.

Interesting thread and here is one tidbit I read this morning on the news.
www.lfpress.com...

This has been a hot topic in Ontario and I see this coming to a head one way or the other shortly.

The wife teaches Yoga and trained with a nurse and this nurse was (now retired) from the surgical ward and she very directly told my wife not to get vaccinated.

S&F
Iwinder

Originally posted by thebtheb
All right, I have no problem with people who want to get vaccinated and choose to do it and have decided that they believe it's a wise decision. It's not my way, but the debates on here about vaccines are endless. But one thing I am tired of hearing and that needs to be corrected here and now is the often cited retort by pro-vaccine people that, "You're putting other people in danger if you don't get vaccinated. It's irresponsible."

To set the record straight, it is well known that people getting certain vaccinations, then shed that very virus they were vaccinated against. So yes, what can and does happen is that those around the newly vaccinated person may GET that disease FROM the vaccinated person. The virus may be shed by the vaccinated person from 72 hours to literally weeks after their vaccination. This shedding can occur through feces, urine, mouth/saliva and through the nose.

This is NOT a theory. It is a documented fact. The worst case scenario is the example of polio. Polio was eradicated in North America and the last case having finished by the 80s. BUT since they started vaccinating third world populations with the nasal polio vaccine, they thought it would be a good idea to introduce that vaccine to children in North America, even though there was no need. The FDA and CDC themselves have admitted that this essentially reintroduced Polio back into North America, through vaccine shedding - other people getting polio from those who were vaccinated, and I might add, those who didn't need to be vaccinated for it.

Vaccine shedding is so well known among doctors that when someone has cancer, or organ transplant surgery, they are told to stay away from the recently vaccinated. Do they tell this to the public at large? Do they tell you this in the ads urging you to get the flu shot? I think you know the answer.

Vaccine virus shedding has happened with vaccines including:measles, rubella, chicken pox, rotavirus and the common flu shot.

READ FOR YOURSELF

So, if you want to get vaccinated, and I don't, please don't tell me I'm being irresponsible. Unless everyone got vaccinated on the same day at the same time, your getting vaccinated could make someone else ill.

edit on 4-10-2012 by thebtheb because: (no reason given)

I with you, I DO NOT TAKE VACCINATIONS .... PERIOD !

A New LONG TERM study from Canada on FLU VACCINES recently revealed lots of potential problems.
I have always known that vaccinations were bad. Government has always DENIED that they are bad.
They change our DNA and our IMMUNE systems, but they also change the BUGS they are trying to protect us again. The BUGS sooner or later become IMMUNE to the vaccines, just like they do the medicines they treat them with.

In conclusion it’s clear that “vaccine shedding” is a nonsense phrase. The lack of accounts of children transmitting viruses to younger siblings and friends after vaccination is a dead giveaway. Whilst viral shedding is a reality we can be confident that:

Viral shedding applies only to live virus vaccines and is significantly low, low risk
Post vaccination viral shedding of rotavirus and varicella is detected in the stools for 4-6 weeks respectively. It’s of such low risk as to be of cautionary interest regarding immunocompromised individuals
Genuine concern about viral shedding in these groups is managed with sound hygiene and avoiding contact with stools
In rare cases of post varicella immunisation vesicular rash shedding may occur. Transmission is still unlikely
The lack of viral shedding following MMR eliminates any concerns about transmission
Claims of DTaP shedding and transmission are bogus
Stories about whooping cough transmission from vaccine shedding are demonstrably false
Stories of polio infection being a risk due to shedding are designed to scare
Antivaccination lobbyists use false and incomplete information about shedding to create fear of vaccines/the vaccinated
Shedding of LAIV is at markedly low concentration, short duration and transmission is dwarfed by seasonal influenza transmission
Accurate information about the topic is drowned out by antivaccination sites and “mothering” forums making inaccurate claims

luckylosing.com...

Originally posted by R0CKY
In conclusion it’s clear that “vaccine shedding” is a nonsense phrase. The lack of accounts of children transmitting viruses to younger siblings and friends after vaccination is a dead giveaway. Whilst viral shedding is a reality we can be confident that:

Viral shedding applies only to live virus vaccines and is significantly low, low risk
Post vaccination viral shedding of rotavirus and varicella is detected in the stools for 4-6 weeks respectively. It’s of such low risk as to be of cautionary interest regarding immunocompromised individuals
Genuine concern about viral shedding in these groups is managed with sound hygiene and avoiding contact with stools
In rare cases of post varicella immunisation vesicular rash shedding may occur. Transmission is still unlikely
The lack of viral shedding following MMR eliminates any concerns about transmission
Claims of DTaP shedding and transmission are bogus
Stories about whooping cough transmission from vaccine shedding are demonstrably false
Stories of polio infection being a risk due to shedding are designed to scare
Antivaccination lobbyists use false and incomplete information about shedding to create fear of vaccines/the vaccinated
Shedding of LAIV is at markedly low concentration, short duration and transmission is dwarfed by seasonal influenza transmission
Accurate information about the topic is drowned out by antivaccination sites and “mothering” forums making inaccurate claims

luckylosing.com...

The article you derived that from doesn't offer any credibility to its statements. They sound more like the usual empty, unproven rebuttals of those who want you to get vaccinated, and in the case of that site, it's an "anti-quackery'" and they all specialize in right wing support, and left wing denial. One great example that you quote: "Stories of polio infection being a risk due to shedding are designed to scare." No, no no! This is a DOCUMENTED FACT ADMITTED BY THE FDA AND THE CDC. IT HAPPENED. IT IS NOT A STORY. IT IS THE EXACT REASON POLIO EXISTS IN THE U.S. TODAY AND THE ONLY REASON. My caps don't mean to yell, but to emphasize. There's a difference between a "story designed to scare" and something that demonstrably happened and again, THAT THE FDA AND CDC HAVE ADMITTED.

Not everyone who has the flu is going to pass the flu on to those around them, just as not everyone who sheds a vaccine virus is going to pass that to those around them.

Not getting the flu shot here. Never have. I have seen people get the flu shot and come down with. Gillian barre which is a horrible disease that they have found is related to the flu shot. It is a gradual loss of movement moving from the feet up and eventually you end up on the ventilator. You do recover but it is a slow process with physical therapy etc. So no, I will neve get the flu shot.

I'm fascinated by the viral shedding. Does this refer only to live vaccine, or also to inactivated vaccine? I take the inactivated vaccine every year because I have severe asthma and a strong propensity for respiratory tract infections. When I get so much as a cold, I'm sick for a long time and it really does a number on me. I've had pneumonia several times from the flu, a couple of times becoming gravely ill. So I really have to take it in my case. (Though, I don't go anywhere for quite some time after the shot, because I feel like crap for days, so hopefully you're all safe from my shedding. )

But that said, I absolutely and unequivocally oppose compulsory vaccinations. The right of a patient to refuse any medical treatment is at the core of what should be proper medical ethics, and forcing anyone to receive any form of treatment, prophylactic or otherwise, is not ethical in my opinion.

Originally posted by AceWombat04
I'm fascinated by the viral shedding. Does this refer only to live vaccine, or also to inactivated vaccine? I take the inactivated vaccine every year because I have severe asthma and a strong propensity for respiratory tract infections. When I get so much as a cold, I'm sick for a long time and it really does a number on me. I've had pneumonia several times from the flu, a couple of times becoming gravely ill. So I really have to take it in my case. (Though, I don't go anywhere for quite some time after the shot, because I feel like crap for days, so hopefully you're all safe from my shedding.

)

But that said, I absolutely and unequivocally oppose compulsory vaccinations. The right of a patient to refuse any medical treatment is at the core of what should be proper medical ethics, and forcing anyone to receive any form of treatment, prophylactic or otherwise, is not ethical in my opinion.

I haven't been able to come across any information if it happens with inactive viruses or not. I know it apparently happens with some flu vaccines, so if they're all inactive, that might answer the question, or maybe not. That's a question mark in my mind too.

Originally posted by Sinny
I feel sorry for my self, I've had all the vaccines under the sun, and ones that may or may not effect my motherhood, or my future daughters motherhood.

Too late for me, but what happens when its time to decide if my child should get vaccinated?
Hmm. I can see me being in a pickle.

My son (now 9) never got any shots, and he's much healthier than his classmates and gets rarely sick. IF he does pick up a cold, his immune system gets rid of it within one or two days (whereas my husband and I who have been vaccinated as kids come down with it afterwards for a week or so). He's also one of the smartest kids in his class and well above average in math and reading skills. I can't prove, of course, that that's due to non-vaccination, but it may well have something to do with it.

reply to post by thebtheb


I Stopped Taking flu vaccine 10 + years ago had the flu every time i was vaccinated.
Guess What? I havent Had The Flu Since i Stopped.

reply to post by thebtheb


Yeah, I don't know either. I can help with one point, though. When I get the shot, they make me fill out a form. Based on my responses (Do you have asthma? Is there any reason you would have a compromised immune system? Etc.) they give me the inactivated vaccine, whereas people who are healthier get a live vaccine (either a shot or nasal spray.) My understanding is that the live vaccine is also weakened, but is technically still viable. They don't give that to people with health issues, because it could make them much sicker.

So - at least as far as I know - not everyone gets the inactivated vaccine.

Originally posted by Monteriano
I am 52 years old, the oldest of five children, and none of us have ever been vaccinated in our lives. My father was a doctor and he was dead set against anyone ever being vaccinated for any reason. All of us are alive and well. Yes, we got a few diseases along the way but somehow managed to survive them. succoming to brainwashing by the authorities is a much worse disease then measels and much more epidemic. Why is everyone so afraid to thumb their noses to authority? F$%K Authority!!!

If your father were still practicing medicine today, he'd probably lose his license for being against vaccines.

I used to work with a woman who's husband was a private contractor. He could not afford to be out of work. When they were kinda broke, only the husband would get his yearly flu jab. Those years, all the uvaccinated members of the family came down with the flu.

In America there are 2 exemptions from getting vaccined: religious and philosophical.
Maybe it's time to start a 3rd vaccine exemption: JUNK SCIENCE.
I like to think of myself as well read and slightly intelligent.
No matter how carefully I read the 'official line' on vaccines, if makes no sense whatsoever.
The healthiest immune system is based on a healthy body and lifestyle ... and getting the odd cold, flu, mumps and measles. That way you can pass your immunity on to your children - naturally. Injecting ground monkey and animal parts into humans sounds more like war on our immune systems and DNA.

The healthiest people I know stay away from (allopathic) doctors.

Originally posted by dollukka
reply to post by Merlin Lawndart

 

Its not an issue of invidual but the community as a whole news.health.com...

My kid developed diabetes type 1 after chicken pox, chicken pox vaccination is not mandatory in my country and believe me if i knew chicken pox is the one which triggered this i would have had him vaccinated to that.

As stated before if you are healthy and are vaccinated there is not much to be scared about of those unvaccinated, BUT if you have underlying disease like diabetes type 1 you are in great RISK. If you have a baby not vaccinated yet she/he is in RISK. Your elderly people are in RISK. There is bunch of people who are at RISK when you are not vaccinated and are ill.

Well, according to that logic, you should have nothing to worry about. If your vaccines are so effective and prevent illness, then you should have no fear of the sick and unvaccinated. Or, you are scared because deep down you know they don't work. Nonetheless, not you nor any other human has the right to force something into another's body.

Originally posted by dollukka
reply to post by thebtheb

 

I believe the amount of vaccinated people to do so is extremely minimal. In my country we have about 98% of our people vaccinated and we have no serious outbreaks of measles or anything in such a scale as there is in US.

Last year there was 9 people who got measles in my country , unvaccinated kid got measles from another country all of those 9 patients had either no vaccines against measles or had only one shot ( vaccine program gives two ) and all these people got this from this unvaccinated kid. No one who had been vaccinated got that.

This is not US we still mostly eat healthy home cooked meals and lots of fresh vegetables and not a trash food like ppl do in US. I have lived in US so i basicly know what kind of crap you have on your dinner plates. If you have that size of outbreaks of measles as i linked before there must be something seriously wrong in your vaccination programs. maybe you should eat healthier too.

You must be joking? Any 1st world country in the world has terrible unhealthy fast food, not just America. Furthermore, to profess you know what's on my plate is preposterous. Contrary to belief, there is a metric ton of healthy physically fit people in America.

Furthermore, you're arguing against fact. Vaccines shed, period the end.

I don't get vaccinated, I don't get sick. I used to get vaccinated, I was in the hospital every week as a child up until 12 when I said stop shooting me with needles.

When they stopped, I got healthy, that's all the proof I need.

Take your anti-us citizen opinions elsewhere. I could careless if you hate our politics, but when you hate on the individuals with non-sensible non-empirical satire-like statements, you can just GTFO.

Originally posted by bluesman462002
reply to post by thebtheb

 

I Stopped Taking flu vaccine 10 + years ago had the flu every time i was vaccinated.
Guess What? I havent Had The Flu Since i Stopped.

I have heard that statement so many times, it's seriously amazing.

reply to post by thebtheb


Since its flu vaccine season, for those who do plan to get the flu vaccine, it is estimated that approximately 1% of the population falls ill with influenza every year. Most of what people think is "the flu" is actually caused by a number of different viruses or bacteria, RARELY influenza. This is why the percentage of those who receive the influenza vaccine and get "the flu" is very similar to those who don't get the vaccine. The influenza vaccine works, that is a known (as far as we know), so the question one has to ask oneself is, do you want to get the vaccine and its toxic preservatives and adjuvants, as well as take on the relatively small risk of tainted vaccines (which happened last year in at least a few countries) to stave off the 1 in 100 odds that you could get influenza, which will generally mean 1-4 days of feeling crappy and possibly puking, amd in rare circumstances, serious illness or death.

Keep in mind, the WHO and CDC keep statistics on those who die from "flu-like illness" - not a large percentage of those are likely to actually be from influenza.

If you do choose to vaccinate, armed with that knowledge, do yourself a favor and ask for vaccine from a single-dose vial, and avoid the mercury injection. Most vaccines don't use thimerosol or similar anymore, but multi-dose influenza vials still do in many cases.

reply to post by dogstar23


I know this is anecdotal on my part, but I had a multi-dose vial last year and hoooly crud I felt awful. I've never felt that bad from a flu shot before, and as someone with asthma and who gets VERY ill from the flu (I can tell the difference between it and a cold, believe me) I get one every year. So I suspect there may be some truth in what you just said. I will ensure I'm getting single dose vials from now on.

reply to post by Merlin Lawndart


Some people see the tree but not the forest around it, an old saying here to understand the bigger picture.

So this is the logic behind this
We have 3 persons, subject A is perfectly healthy man and so is subject B lets say they have immune level at 60% against diseases naturally, subject 3 has lower immune level cos he has underlying disease like diabetes or asthma, his immunelevel is about 20%. With vaccine you get 40% boost to your protection against disease.
Subject A dont take it his immune against disease stays at 60%
Subject B takes the vaccine and get his immune level to 100%
Subject C takes the vaccine but vaccine do not give him total protection against disease so his immunelevel rises to 60%...

Now see the bigger picture are people who refuse to take vaccines putting those who have lower immune level at the begin with in danger ?

Originally posted by mikellmikell
Last friday my 81 year old mother got her flu shot. last night she went to the hospital with penuma in both lungs.

OMG. I happen to be a child of a parent also. I will pray for you and your mother. I'm not a religious freak but,

I encourage Everyone, atheist, agnostics, Muslims, Christians and Other, to Pray for Mike and his Mother. Please.

Just a little short one even if you feel silly. It might make the difference between life and death.