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If You Pay Taxes, You Support This [Time America Questioned It's Funding of Israel]

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posted on Oct, 4 2012 @ 10:37 PM
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Originally posted by Wonderer2012
What our 'ally' does is wrong or do you think what Israel does it right? Afterall, that is the point raised in the OP which has been derailed IMO.



Back up. You cannot post a thread and then after the fact attempt to set participant blinders and rules of approach. I posted the "why" for why the US sends aid to Israel. I think the why is pretty important and needs identified before the "what" is discussed in terms of what the aid is used for by Israel. In all things there is a trade off.
If we stopped sending said aid to Israel tomorrow, would the Palestinians suddenly be better off? No, you can't really say that because, as you have stated, Israel isn't exactly relying on that US aid to balance the books.
If we stopped sending aid to Israel tomorrow, would the rest of the Middle East suddenly cease to be the primordial ooze of terrorist points of origin? No, you certainly cannot say that because you're dealing largely with a combination of blind zealotry, brainwashing, and scape goating that creates this hatred in the first place. It benefits fundamentalist leaders and warlords to present the US as the "Great Satan", and since that label and hatred was largely the product of falsehoods in the first place, why would any change in US policy equal an improvement in relations?
If we stopped sending aid tomorrow, would we lose literally the only ally we have there? Possibly, possibly not... but certainly such an action would harm that relationship.
If (when) we get embroiled in a war there, would the costs saved by ceasing that aid be instantly encurred multiple times over due to us having to re-establish some forms of ally and base of operations? Ansolutely.

Cost/benefit analysis would indicate that US aid to Israel makes more fiscal sense than the alternatives. Peace is a wonderful goal. Protection of human rights is very good. Equality is awesome. That said, we live in the real world and most of these things are a limited commodity in that world. If we were to base all of our international partnerships on these concerns, not only would we not have any allies, we'd also be enormous hypocrites.




posted on Oct, 4 2012 @ 10:44 PM
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Originally posted by burdman30ott6

If we stopped sending aid tomorrow, would we lose literally the only ally we have there? Possibly, possibly not... but certainly such an action would harm that relationship.


Ironic its ONLY "about" Israel..........



One of the first attacks occurred Tuesday at the U.S. Embassy in Cairo, Egypt, a country that has received $1.6 billion in each of the past four years. Egypt has since 1979 been the second-largest recipient of U.S. aid, following Israel. Roughly $1.3 billion of that annual aid goes to Egypt’s military, according to Congressional Research Service



US aid to Middle East questioned after anti-American attacks in region



posted on Oct, 5 2012 @ 06:15 AM
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Originally posted by burdman30ott6

Originally posted by Wonderer2012
What our 'ally' does is wrong or do you think what Israel does it right? Afterall, that is the point raised in the OP which has been derailed IMO.



Back up. You cannot post a thread and then after the fact attempt to set participant blinders and rules of approach. I posted the "why" for why the US sends aid to Israel. I think the why is pretty important and needs identified before the "what" is discussed in terms of what the aid is used for by Israel. In all things there is a trade off.
If we stopped sending said aid to Israel tomorrow, would the Palestinians suddenly be better off? No, you can't really say that because, as you have stated, Israel isn't exactly relying on that US aid to balance the books.
If we stopped sending aid to Israel tomorrow, would the rest of the Middle East suddenly cease to be the primordial ooze of terrorist points of origin? No, you certainly cannot say that because you're dealing largely with a combination of blind zealotry, brainwashing, and scape goating that creates this hatred in the first place. It benefits fundamentalist leaders and warlords to present the US as the "Great Satan", and since that label and hatred was largely the product of falsehoods in the first place, why would any change in US policy equal an improvement in relations?
If we stopped sending aid tomorrow, would we lose literally the only ally we have there? Possibly, possibly not... but certainly such an action would harm that relationship.
If (when) we get embroiled in a war there, would the costs saved by ceasing that aid be instantly encurred multiple times over due to us having to re-establish some forms of ally and base of operations? Ansolutely.

Cost/benefit analysis would indicate that US aid to Israel makes more fiscal sense than the alternatives. Peace is a wonderful goal. Protection of human rights is very good. Equality is awesome. That said, we live in the real world and most of these things are a limited commodity in that world. If we were to base all of our international partnerships on these concerns, not only would we not have any allies, we'd also be enormous hypocrites.


Hold on, I started a thread about how Israel treats Palestinians- ie, throwing them off their land.

Now that is a result of US funding because we fund their military.

Now I understand your point that America funds Israel to serve their interests or whatever, but it is clear that comes at a very high price to the Palestinians.

So, American politicians could address this and say improve the way you treat Palestinians or the aid stops. That would be much better than handing billions over every year without asking questions.

Do you not see my point?




edit on 5-10-2012 by Wonderer2012 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 5 2012 @ 06:47 AM
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Originally posted by neo96
If you pay taxes your funding 149 other countries singling out one just shows bigotry.

Plain and simple.


HA!
FY2010, $US millions
Country. U.S. Total Economic and Military aid Economic Aid r.p.p., Military Aid r.p.p.
Afghanistan 11,446.8 159.56 233.52
Pakistan 2,853.5 10.52 4.95
Israel 2,835.8 4.94 380.68

Do you want us to take a look at older numbers?
www.csmonitor.com...
"Since 1973, Israel has cost the United States about $1.6 trillion. If divided by today's population, that is more than $5,700 per person."
Go ahead, call The Christian Science Monitor a left wing popaganda channel.

rense.com...
"Total Cost to U.S. Taxpayers $134,791,507,200"

www.ifamericansknew.org...

www.ynetnews.com...
"Military aid to Israel has increased from USD 1.8 billion to USD 2.4 billion.
Egypt received the second largest aid package from the US and will receive USD 1.3 billion in military aid as well as USD 415 million in civilian aid. Jordan will receive USD 264 million in economic aid as well as USD 200 million in military aid."


"...singling out one just shows bigotry"!?
Guess the US congress is full of bigots.
edit on 5-10-2012 by Summerian because: Just some more stuff.



posted on Oct, 5 2012 @ 07:32 AM
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There are thousands of atrocities my tax dollars pay for. That doesn't mean I "support" them.



posted on Oct, 5 2012 @ 08:31 AM
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There's another nasty little figure most folks are unaware of, a protection racket that drains 300-400 billion a year in the US alone...
www.abovetopsecret.com...



posted on Oct, 5 2012 @ 10:03 AM
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reply to post by twitchy
 


You all might like this if you want to complain about taxes then here are some law studies most have not read before on taxes, SS and so much more:
www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...



posted on Oct, 5 2012 @ 10:37 AM
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Originally posted by Gridrebel
There are thousands of atrocities my tax dollars pay for. That doesn't mean I "support" them.


No, not directly, but we are all slaves to this system whether we like it or not, we have no choice where are tax money is spent, but we still have to pay it!



posted on Oct, 5 2012 @ 01:56 PM
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reply to post by Wonderer2012
 


From your OP:

Originally posted by Wonderer2012
Why does the United States of America support a nation that is doing this to the Palestinians? We know it is wrong yet accept it. Why?


I directly answered the "Why?" you asked. Whether or not you choose to accept my response doesn't change the fact that this is why the US accepts Israel's handling of the Palestinian situation. I'd also argue that there are more Americans who are either indifferent to the situation or approve of Israel than there are Americans who feel Palestine is being abused. The United States doesn't even recognize Palestine as a nation or a state.

I was going to avoid identifying the giant pink elephant standing in the middle of the room, but I may as well since it seems to escaped your gaze... In my lifespan, all 36 years of it, attacks between Israel and Palestine have been cyclic. By and large, every time Israel has backed down and listened to the international community, giving Palestine any measure of self governance and rights, a disco, theater, pizzaria, nightclub, bus, school, or church has been blown to hell by a lunatic with a IED strapped under their jacket. Everytime they have given palestine a quarter, an RPG has been lobbed over the wall from the Palestinian side into the Israeli side. Every attempt at peace by the Israelis has been greeted by a violent act from the Palestinians while the terrorist in charge of the PLO shouted "Peace, peace! Cannot we all have peace?" This may not represent the average Palestinian who is caught up in this mess, but it does represent their leadership and the terrorist acts have come from representatives of Palestine. Civilian casualties of war suck, but when the primary target entrenches itself amongst their own civilians, there really aren't many options.



posted on Oct, 5 2012 @ 02:51 PM
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reply to post by charles1952
 


Are we prohibited from giving foreign aid to any country that isn't perfect?

The Symington and Glenn amendments to foreign aid law specifically prohibit US aid to nuclear states outside the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty (NPT). Iran has signed. Israel hasn’t.



posted on Oct, 5 2012 @ 04:15 PM
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reply to post by 00001
 

Dear 00001,

Thanks very much. That's the kind of reply that makes life worthwhile. I learn a lot from it.


From Wiki on the Symington amendment:

The President of the United States has used his authority to ease sanctions on India and Pakistan, while continuing to permit an informal exception for Israel.

en.wikipedia.org...

The Arms Export Control Act of 1976 (Title II of Pub.L. 94-329, 90 Stat. 734, enacted June 30, 1976, codified at 22 U.S.C. ch.39) gives the President of the United States the authority to control the import and export of defense articles and defense services.

In January 2009, Congressman Dennis Kucinich sent a controversial notice to Secretary of State, Dr. Condoleezza Rice, that Israel’s actions in Gaza since December 27, 2008 may constitute a violation of the requirements of the Arms Export Control Act, based on casualties at a United Nations school complex. The allegations about the case were repudiated by the IDF, and no action has been taken under the act.

en.wikipedia.org...
You'll notice that it talked about the AECA of 1976? That's where the Amendments you're talking about were added in. Also note that the act was codified in 22 U.S.C. chapter 39. If you go there you'll find bazillions of words, but these stuck out for me.

22 USC § 2753 - Eligibility for defense services or defense articles


(b) Necessity of consent by President
The consent of the President under paragraph (2) of subsection (a) of this section or under paragraph (1) of section 2314(a) of this title (as it relates to subparagraph (B) of such paragraph) shall not be required for the transfer by a foreign country or international organization of defense articles sold by the United States under this chapter if a treaty referred to in section 2778(j)(1)(C)(i) of this title permits such transfer without prior consent of the President, or if—

(1)such articles constitute components incorporated into foreign defense articles;

(2)the recipient is the government of a member country of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization, the Government of Australia, the Government of Japan, the Government of the Republic of Korea, the Government of Israel, or the Government of New Zealand;

www.law.cornell.edu...
Notice that the government of Israel doesn't need to get the consent of the President?

You did a good job in finding those amendments, but they don't seem to apply to Israel.

With respect,
Charles1952



posted on Oct, 6 2012 @ 04:29 AM
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Originally posted by burdman30ott6
reply to post by Wonderer2012
 


From your OP:

Originally posted by Wonderer2012
Why does the United States of America support a nation that is doing this to the Palestinians? We know it is wrong yet accept it. Why?

I'd also argue that there are more Americans who are either indifferent to the situation or approve of Israel than there are Americans who feel Palestine is being abused. The United States doesn't even recognize Palestine as a nation or a state.


Well this is the reason I shared the video, to show Americans what their tax money pays for.

As I stated, I know why America supports Israel- to 'help' an ally and more arguably due to the fact many politicians sell out to the pro Israel lobby as many in Western Europe do as well.

But, as I've already said, the point of the thread is to show the other side of Israel and what we indirectly fund- ie, the kind of stuff that is carried out against Palestinians. Whether America 'recognises' Paelstine or not, they are still fellow human beings.



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