Return to Antikythera - 2000 Year Old Computer

Great news that they have permission to go back. Can't wait to see what else, if anything they find.

Originally posted by pikestaff
there is an ancient Greek male called Aristarkies (or similar spelling), that worked it out that the Earth, moon, planets were globes, that they orbited the sun, and that the little twinkling things in the night sky were suns like Sol, that knowledge was ignored, but thankfully not lost.

Aristarchus of Samos, a rather smart guy

Excellent thread. S&F. Very interesting article.

Truly a great relic that still stands the test of time...but how did they get to create it in the first place?? maybe they took help from some "time traveller" or something?? or could have been ET?
Great Thread

This 'computer' is 2000 years old and is a real out of place artifact. This is the only found object. This object had to have an evolution over thousands of years before yet there is little evidence of this. To assume that this object is also the most technological instrument in its day is a big mistake.

This instrument was on a boat. I am pretty sure it was not a one of a kind piece. So where are the hundreds or thousands of other out of place instruments more or less advance than this piece?

The myths and evidence points to the possibility of small pockets of higher tech civilizations existed among what we consider prehistoric or primitive people in the distant past;. We must remember that back then there was no news, internet, and the distance between major cities around the world could be compared to the distance of the earth from the moon.

Well it's pretty well made. I would think it was fairly expensive. It would take a lot of time to make. Probably used by some astrologer as part of his tool kit. A successful astrologer who used it to make a quick calculation, in service of a client. Flashed this thing around and people said, ":you must be the man.". got the job. Made him more efficient. Had shops in the mall. Ran a tight shop and prospered.

I bet there were quite a few gizmos that rusted away. Our plastic can last a long time. We'll be remembered.

If it is based on an earth centered heaven and our modern tools and observations can confirm a correct precision, then I find this even more remarkable.

Originally posted by okyouwin
Well it's pretty well made. I would think it was fairly expensive. It would take a lot of time to make. Probably used by some astrologer as part of his tool kit. A successful astrologer who used it to make a quick calculation, in service of a client. Flashed this thing around and people said, ":you must be the man.". got the job. Made him more efficient. Had shops in the mall. Ran a tight shop and prospered.

I bet there were quite a few gizmos that rusted away. Our plastic can last a long time. We'll be remembered.

If it is based on an earth centered heaven and our modern tools and observations can confirm a correct precision, then I find this even more remarkable.

A number of similar devices were written about in classical literature, Archimedes wrote a lost manuscript on the construction of globes and devices called, On Sphere-Making. A text from the Library of Alexandria describes some of these creations, some even containing simple drawings. One was an odometer, later used by the Romans to place their mile markers described in writings by Vitruvius and Heron of Alexandria

Cicero wrote about a device that was built 'recently' by his friend Posidonius, which showed the revolutions and which movements of the Sun and Moon and the five planets as is brought about each day and night in the heavens

It is unlikely that any one of these machines was the Antikythera mechanism found in the shipwreck since both the devices fabricated by Archimedes and mentioned by Cicero were located in Rome at least 30 years later than the estimated date of the shipwreck, and the third device was almost certainly in the hands of Posidonius by that date. The scientists who have reconstructed the Antikythera mechanism also agree that it was too sophisticated to have been a unique device.

In the Islamic world, Banū Mūsā's Kitab al-Hiyal, or Book of Ingenious Devices, was commissioned by the Caliph of Baghdad in the early 9th century AD. This text described over a hundred mechanical devices, some of which may date back to ancient Greek texts preserved in monasteries

reply to post by Hanslune
I'm drawn to the idea that it was a collaborative effort because of the number of disciplines required for its creation. An astronomer's knowledge and texts would be needed, but another discipline would be needed to judge which metal to use and how to forge it. Then we have such a beautiful design that an artist must have been commissioned too. Beneath the superficial appeal lies all that cutting edge gear-structure which would depend on a master engineer to design.

Like our modern motor engines, they exist as an end-product of a great many small steps and developments. All the tried/failed/succeeded moments... So this device would almost certainly have had predecessors of varying quality and accuracy.

None of this could occur in a vacuum and, I think, points to a location that was a hub of trade, patronage and featured a nearby, notable university or equivalent.

Just think out loud...it'd be surprising if more than a few (like this one) were made as the commission would probably be very expensive for the buyer and time-consuming for whoever the creators were. I can imagine it being even more exclusive than the earliest Fabergé eggs.

reply to post by Kandinsky


Great heads up Kandinsky
i remember watching this documentary on it
its unbelievably fascinating!
i wonder if there will be any other "finds" during the mapping

seriously if anyones got a spare 1 hour and havnt already watched this, please sit and enjoy!!!

reply to post by GezinhoKiko
Yeah I watched it a long time back and it really shows how improbable it is that one genius could create the Antikythera device without lots of help and support...and funding.

reply to post by Kandinsky


I'd say that the builders were a family concern, or a select group whose fathers had built such devices before them. I would also speculate that if they excavate the site they will find more such toys and the tools plus spare parts. I would also wonder if the builders themselves were on that boat? Production of such toys stopped AFAWK about that time

reply to post by Hanslune

I would also wonder if the builders themselves were on that boat? Production of such toys stopped AFAWK about that time

Now that's an intriguing idea!

reply to post by Kandinsky


On usenet there was a hugely long thread on this subject

The basic points I noted above but also that the underwater archaeological expertise and techniques were not up to the task of excavating the ship wreck site - I suspect they can now do it - using remote cameras to do a lot of survey work

The Antikythera Mechanism was very clearly NOT a first or unique effort. Its compactness, its accuracy, its design... all genius, even today.

To add an angle to this, who says the Antikythera Mechanism was the pinnacle of Greek engineering? Whoever made this likely went to work on something even more advanced. It'll be very interesting to see what else may lie in those waters.

reply to post by gb540

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Hopefully if it was looted they looted the entire workshop and more items will be found - but given the technical difficulties at that site we may have to wait a number of years

I always wonder how many of these kinds of things were destroyed during the inquisition and crusades.

Think of all the knowledge lost in Alexandria?

reply to post by ubeenhad


Most of it was fortunately poetry, you might want to look at the Pinakes, the list of books in the library of Alexandria by Callimachus. I'd also suggest that the books in Pergamon library might have held more interesting stuff and for them, no list of subjects is available (presuming the legends of their being sent to Alexandria is wrong)

Originally posted by Destinyone
reply to post by majestic3

 

It looks older than 2,000 years...much, much older. I wonder if it was already an antique back then, when it was loaded on the ship that took it to the depths. I can't help but wonder if it was as much of a mystery to the Greeks back then.

Most interesting topic!

Des

Yes I am sure with all the Greek lettering they had difficulty understanding its origins.

Originally posted by zatara

Originally posted by flexy123
Thanks for bringing that to mind again, just refreshed my knowledge a little in regards to this.
The complexity is mind-blowing seeing it is 2000 years old.

Taking that in mind you can imagine what genius the guy must be who figured it all out and made a replica with just a few pieces of clogged debrie.

edit on 4/10/2012 by zatara because: (no reason given)

They did a complete scan with modern technology and mapped the entire innards. There's some film footage of it, amazing work!

unveilingtheapocalypse.blogspot.co.uk...

This piece is historical, examines religious writings/codes, and speaks of allignments.

The ancients are known to have constructed devices to measure the motions of the planets, as was attested by the discovery of the Antikythera mechanism in 1900. The Antikythera mechanism, which was discovered in a shipwreck dating to the 1st century BC, is widely acknowledged to be the most sophisticated technological innovation in antiquity, and considered by many to be the earliest known example of an analog "computer". This device was primarily used for calculating the movements of the Sun, Moon and five planets - which some archaeologists have proposed were represented on the front panel of the mechanism by a series of precious gems and metals - much in the way the mountains composed of various gemstones in 1Enoch above may also have represented certain attributes of the planets.
In his De Re Publica, the Roman historian Cicero mentions that the Greek polymath Archimedes had constructed two different machines for predicting the movement of the planets. So there were a number of various devices used for measuring the motions of the planets contemporary to the composition of the Apocalypse, and a perceived relationship between the Menorah and an astronomical orrery is conceivable even in a 1st century AD context. Indeed, an association between an orrery and the Jewish Menorah was made as early as Clement of Alexandria, who writing circa 200AD, stated that the purpose of this seven-branched candelabra was to depict the movements of the seven wandering stars:

The lamp, too, was placed to the south of the altar of incense; and by it were shown the motions of the seven planets, that perform their revolutions towards the south. For three branches rose on either side of the lamp, and lights on them; since also the sun, like the lamp, set in the midst of all the planets, dispenses with a kind of divine music the light to those above and to those below.
(Clement of Alexandria, Stromata 5:6)

This relates to allignments, and the 7 headed beast, not only the hills of Rome, but the 7 planets, including the moon, that are visible and true wanderers, the so called wandering stars

For the ancients, the "wandering stars" were the seven visible planets, which unlike the fixed constellations, freely roamed the night-skies in their own orbit. Indeed the English word "planet" is directly derived from the Greek word πλανήτης, planetes - which means "wanderer". And it is this word which is used in the original Greek of the Epistle of St. Jude: ἀστέρες πλανῆται, asteres planetai ("wandering stars"). The fact that the mountains/stars in the Book of Enoch are represented by precious stones could further suggest that these stars are in fact planets, since the seven wandering stars were often associated with gems and precious metals in antiquity.

These stars/planet are connected to the abyss in the writings. And the Menorah or Jewish candelabra, which also gives a sign to an alligment, as it is held in the right hand of Christ.

I find this very interesting.

Also, The woman clothed in the sun is the sun itself, and under her feet is satan, with the moon and dragon, signifying an eclipse.

Apparently alot of these signs have come to pass with certain allignments already and of course they've been building those underground bases, so we need to pay attention.

Apparently those in power have long had codes and clues given to them, while we're treated like mushrooms and fed constant BS.

And we know from the writings of the 3rd century BC Babylonian astronomer Berossus that the ancients placed immense symbolic importance in the occurrence of planetary alignments. Berossus believed that an alignment of the planets in the constellation Cancer would signal the end of the world:

Berossus... affirms that the whole issue is brought about by the course of the planets. So positive is he that he assigns a definite date both for the conflagration and the deluge. All that the earth inherits will, he assures us, be consigned to flame when the planets, which now move in different orbits, all assemble in Cancer, so arranged in one row that a straight line may pass through their spheres. When the same gathering takes place in Capricorn, then we are in danger of the deluge.
(Berossus Babylonica, cited in Seneca, Naturales Quaestiones, 3. 28 7-3. 29)

Cancer, the Scarab often depicted in Egyptian pictographs.