The question I have is whether the allegations of abuse against the father were made in the Italian family court, or just in the Australian court?

If the the accusations were made in Italy, then the court believed the mother was lying and awarded custody to the father.

If the accusations were only made in Australia and not in Italy... Then why not?

Either way it looks bad for the mother.

The only thing sadder than what the mother has done to these kids is the reaction of "mostly" women in Australia.
It's the usual feminist I demand equality as long as it suits me crap, equality in this case would = Jail, no ifs buts or maybes so come collect your serve of equality lady.

The only person we know who has done anything wrong here is the mother & her mother so where do people get off defending her & attacking the innocent party AKA DAD? The only people who think sex hasn't influenced their & the medias bias in this case are women or delusional.

You can't throw around a baseless allegation or I can too, maybe the mother kidnapped these girls & hid them so they could be sacrificed in some illuminati sex ritual. It's happened before and all so.......Thank god the authorities are sending them away from her she was nuts.

Known Facts:
MOTHER: Known repeat criminal - Kidnapper - violates court orders - manipulates media - refuses legal court orders - manipulates her children etc - refuses to return to Italy to be with her kids - has no means of supporting herself or her children, I wonder if she expected the father to pay for that or the Ozzy tax payers. It would be something our courts would do force dad to pay child support to a kidnapper of a mother.

Father: Done the right & legal thing(repeatedly) - been patient & tolerant - Loves his kids - has spent major$$ fighting for them - has not caused a scene or made 1 attack on the mother that I've seen(hardly the actions of a short tempered violant man) - has given the mother more latitude than she ever deserved - has travelled half the globe to be with his kids.

Unless these girls are going to fetch some high bride price why would he go to all this trouble & expense for years to get his children back? Punching bags are cheap & I'm sure in italy he could have himself a fresh young woman & enjoy making a church of kids so whats the logic?

The mother, grand mother & possibly the aunt have all broken the law & should feel the weight of justice (as a man already would of), the farther should prosecute her in both countries to the full extent of the law including suing for financial losses incurred due to the kidnapping.
The children should never get a say in court for various reasons but the main 1 being they are kids, I mean how many people here have children or better yet hormonal teenage girls? Do your children get to make their own rules at home, NO for very good reasons.

As for the farther abusing them well what constitutes abuse? For some as soon as a hand is laid on a child for others not until said child is black & blue. Typically ethnic fathers are still like our dads used to be, quick with a clip round the ear when needed but done out of love not hatred, it would not be hard to understand why a child would tend to go towards the parent who doesn't administer the "needed" punishments at home.

Anyone who says they shouldn't have been dragged off kicking & screaming is right! They should have been slipped a Mickey earlier for everyone's sake & the mother should not be allowed to exacerbate the situation by screaming out to the kids, chasing cars down the street or banging on windows as she goes into hysterics.
Of Course the kids reacted to that who wouldn't, once again though the MOTHER makes a bad situation worse.

Anyone who thinks they should stay cause that's what they want after being kidnapped for 2 years has rocks in their head. I bet you would sing a different tune after someone spent 2 years brainwashing your children against you.
Give me half that time & I would have your own children thinking you were devil spawn & trying to douse you in metho on site & that's without a messy divorce to use as a fire starter.

The final WTF for me was a judge after ruling that the children should return to Italy can then blackmail a victim into giving up his rights to pursuing justice for crimes committed against him? I hope he bags the crap out of our pathetic excuse for a legal system when he gets home, No wonder fathers loose it and off themselves & their kids even when they are the victim they treated like crap & turned into the bad guy while the perpetrator of the crimes is hailed by the media and backed by the courts just cause she's a woman. Pathetic in this day & age really.
If I raped my wife the abducted my children & ran away to another country would it be fair for a judge in that foreign country to blackmail my wife into not pursuing charges against me & use her own children as the tool of said blackmail?

Originally posted by ollncasino

Yet the original court, which was in possession of more facts and evidence than you or I, decided that the children's interests were served best by the father having custody.

Incidentally, if the father really was a violent person who had struck their mother, why did the original court come to the decision that it did?

It is Italy. It could be a very conservative religious area of Italy.

The mother could have had an affair - - - and courts found her unfit because of it.

The decision may not be in the best interest of the children - - - but in the best interest of a religious based judge.

Originally posted by WorkingClassMan

The only person we know who has done anything wrong here is the mother & her mother so where do people get off defending her & attacking the innocent party AKA DAD?

You do not know that the dad is innocent. Maybe he bribed the judge. Maybe its a culturally paternal controlled area.

We just don't know.

What we do know is the kids are happy with their mother. And do not want to return to their father.

Its a just system.
Not a fair system.

If the girls were kicking and screaming begging to stay with their mum, i hate to say but the judge got it wrong.

Originally posted by Annee

It is Italy. It could be a very conservative religious area of Italy.

The mother could have had an affair - - - and courts found her unfit because of it.

The decision may not be in the best interest of the children - - - but in the best interest of a religious based judge.

If the mother had an affair and split up a family because of it, then she is an unfit mother.

However, that won't have been the criteria that the Italian court will have used when awarding custody. Italy is a modern European state. It will have based its decision on the best interest of the children.

Originally posted by nixie_nox
It is hard to take you seriously when you want to keep applying you personal bias
You also don't know who could afford the better lawyer, most likely him. Girls should be kept with their mothers, especially a girl at the very awkward age of 15, who is developing, most certainly should be, and is better off in Austrailia than the male dominated society of Italy.

It's hard to take you seriously when your rubric for deciding who is awarded custody of children is that mothers should automatically get custody of girls.

No ifs, no buts. Mothers get the girls. Seriously?

Your anti-father bias is clear.

Originally posted by Annee

You do not know that the dad is innocent. Maybe he bribed the judge. Maybe its a culturally paternal controlled area.

Maybe the mother just made it up in a desperate attempt to keep the children she abducted?

Besides, I image that the female Australian family law judge who heard the case would be shocked that you are accusing her of being bribed by the father.

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by ollncasino

Yet the original court, which was in possession of more facts and evidence than you or I, decided that the children's interests were served best by the father having custody.

Incidentally, if the father really was a violent person who had struck their mother, why did the original court come to the decision that it did?

It is Italy. It could be a very conservative religious area of Italy.

The mother could have had an affair - - - and courts found her unfit because of it.

The decision may not be in the best interest of the children - - - but in the best interest of a religious based judge.

this is why real men don't take most of the women seriously. logic is beyond their reach....
Thank god the judges made a rational decision and not an emotional one.

All I am seeing is a lot of probables, maybes and what ifs. The fact is neither side of this argument has all the facts, nor does either side of this argument know for sure what either the mother or father are thinking.

Wait for the outcome of the Italian court case that will ensue from this, I think that will shine a lot more light on the subject with all the media scrutiny now upon it.

Originally posted by ollncasino

Your anti-father bias is clear.

No offense mate but you are showing a clear anti-mother stance. You have accused others of being sexist, yet that is exactly what you are doing yourself.

I cannot stand hypocrites.

Originally posted by Kryties
All I am seeing is a lot of probables, maybes and what ifs. The fact is neither side of this argument has all the facts, nor does either side of this argument know for sure what either the mother or father are thinking.

Wait for the outcome of the Italian court case that will ensue from this, I think that will shine a lot more light on the subject with all the media scrutiny now upon it.

Exactly. I will say again though that the mother has made things extremely difficult for herself for any subsequent custody hearings by demonstrating a clear disregard for the law. Yes she had her reasons (right or wrong) but Courts globally frown on this sort of behaviour. Basically, she could have handled this an awful lot better than she has.

Originally posted by ollncasino

Originally posted by Annee

You do not know that the dad is innocent. Maybe he bribed the judge. Maybe its a culturally paternal controlled area.

Maybe the mother just made it up in a desperate attempt to keep the children she abducted?

Besides, I image that the female Australian family law judge who heard the case would be shocked that you are accusing her of being bribed by the father.

I only presented a possible logical alternative viewpoint.

You're the woman hater blaming everything on the woman.