4 girls dragged kicking/screaming onto aircraft after Australian judge rules they return to father

reply to post by ollncasino

it was the mother who took the children on holiday to Australia and refused to return them to their Italian father, so it could be argued that it was the mother that shipped the children to another country to live with a parent they hardly knew.

And so two wrongs make a right huh? We need to stop over-complicating things here... the children are the most important factor here. If we focus too much on which parent is right and which is wrong we lose sight of what is actually best for these children right here and now. And the answer is clear...

Originally posted by nvprose1
maybe the "Work-a-holic" father just had more money to hire a better "legal"
representation, the scales of justice always weighs towards the most cash
thrown at the system...

Perhaps the father was working to support his children?

It could be speculated that the mother has attempted, unsuccessfully, to spin something positive into something negative.

That being said, I'm sure he did need deep pockets to fight for the return of his children to Italy through the Australian courts.

Originally posted by ChaoticOrder

And so two wrongs make a right huh? We need to stop over-complicating things here... the children are the most important factor here. If we focus too much on which parent is right and which is wrong we lose sight of what is actually best for these children right here and now. And the answer is clear...

The original family court decided that what was best for the children was to be with their father. Since that decision, the mother abducted the children and then hid them with her grandmother from the Australian authorities after an order had been made by the Australian courts to return them.

Objectively, the mother has done nothing in the last 2 years to demonstrate that she is the better parent for the children. Quite the opposite in fact.

The father on the other hand has proven his devotion to his daughter by battling for two years at considerable financial and emotional cost, through a foreign court system, for their return.

Two of the girls were put off the plane in Brisbane, apparently they were making such a commotion that it upset the other passengers.

Source

reply to post by DaesDaemar

Seven Network footage shows the girls screaming "no" and resisting before they are put in two cars.

Their mother banged on the rear window of one vehicle as it drove off.

She ran after the car and then collapsed to the ground sobbing.

Link

Should she not be arrested for child abduction?

I imagine that if the roles were reversed, the father's feet would not touch the ground.

The girls have been sent back, yet the case is NOT over. The custody hearings will be held in Italy - in which case the girls will also get a chance to indicate who they want to live with, and judging by their cries while the police were manhandling them into the car they will choose their mother and be back here eventually.

The problem I have with this issue is the way the police handled the girls. It was distressing and quite disgusting to watch.

Originally posted by Kryties

The problem I have with this issue is the way the police handled the girls. It was distressing and quite disgusting to watch.

But the mother has caused all of this with her selfishness and now the people suffering are the children.

She should be prosecuted.

i hate cases such as this. none of us really knows who is at fault for what. given the age of the girls and time spent with her, chances are they have been brainwashed, or at least could have been as we can't really know. at that point the children"s opinions may have been formed on a base of lies and therefore i would have to go with the original court's ruling as at least they have had a shot at the truth. if such abuse was indeed taking place why did she not try to fight it? not KIDNAP the children to another country in the hope that she could stay hidden.

this is the sad part of divorce. adults wanting to hurt each other or gain some sort of revenge, and use any children as pawns in a game of hurt the other person. they will even try to take a pet they hate just because the other loves it and so it is a weapon to be used against the other. i have heard far to many horror stories of friends and people i know getting the big screw when it comes to divorce

heck one person i know, their ex used a stack of beer bottles the other had been collecting for a couple years (like many people who build a huge stash to cash in when actually worth something or need the cash), as a sign of a drinking problem leading to abuse. the reality was my friend had been laid off and so wasn't able to give her what she wanted. the ex is now divorcing the second mate as they are no longer able to work, yup looks like abuse was the issue there. but sadly this seems to be common. an expression i often hear from those in the middle of divorce is "take them for everything they have". and if they have to make up stories to get what they want, they seem more than willing to do so.

in another case of friends one parent convinced the court the other was mentally unstable (gee guess how they achieved that, abuse of course). so the mother had no parental rights for years. then as she got some rites back the horror story unfolded. the other had remarried to someone with three kids of their own, so add the three kids from the first marriage makes 6 kids right around the same age area. the sad thing was the new spouses kids got everything, while the other three were virtually paupers in the family, getting nothing but hand me downs. all the toys were the other 3 kid's etc. if that wasn't bad enough as the kids got older one of them decided they might be gay. so the "good, not mentally unstable" parent who had demonized their spouse started to abuse that child to "fix" them. including taking her to a "deprogrammer type". the other parent felt she couldn't even go to the authorities as they might figure she was just out for revenge and maybe loose her rights again as they could possibly say she was "unstable" again. so instead of a happy childhood those kids were basically in hell. all because of the way divorces seem to work as it stands.

i'm at the point of saying that instead of all the BS involved in pointing blame to get money. just divide everything in 2 equal parts, and go their separate ways. no alimony or child support. instead children should spend an equal time with both parents, (with time also set aside for grandparents typically the biggest looser in a divorce or breakup). in case where abuse is PROVEN outside of wild accusations that seem to go along with divorce. then the child should spend the time normally allotted to the GUILTY parent transferred to the grandparents or other relatives in their place. if a parent wants to move a fair distance away then they would need to set up arrangements to transport children back and forth, i would think at the expense of the parent wanting to move. in the case of a person wanting to go to another country then they can either leave the child in the care of the other parent or set up some sort of arrangement with the embassy to insure that the children are not kept from the other parent. in a case like this something like alternating years sounds like a decent idea for extreme distances. i would also think that regular interviews with the children from an outside agency of some sort to insure no turning children against the other parent occurs would be a good idea. this is about the fairest thing i can think of for the entire families involved. especially the children. i will agree that it is still somewhat unfair to the children but better than things stand now.

Originally posted by ollncasino

Originally posted by Kryties

The problem I have with this issue is the way the police handled the girls. It was distressing and quite disgusting to watch.

But the mother has caused all of this with her selfishness and now the people suffering are the children.

She should be prosecuted.

Do you personally know the family? Do you know for absolute certain that the father isn't some sort of closet-monster who hides it very well in public? From what I hear the mother FLED him with the children, meaning they feared for their safety - and of course the father would deny it wouldn't he?

reply to post by ollncasino


I agree. The courts have made the correct decision, however badly it may sit with some people. At the end of the day, it is a simple case of child abduction. No other issues come into play as a result.

The mother has caused this whole scenario. If the father is truly abusive, then apply for a divorce and custody to the Italian courts. What you do not do is simply snatch the children and go to another country.

reply to post by ollncasino


She obviously has mental health problems and the girls are vulnerable


Good direction by the judge in this case.

Originally posted by Kryties

Do you personally know the family? Do you know for absolute certain that the father isn't some sort of closet-monster who hides it very well in public?

I do know that the Italian family court, which was in possession of more facts and evidence than you or I, awarded the father custody.

Since abducting the children the mother has tried to portray the father as some sort of violent workaholic.

Originally posted by Kryties
From what I hear the mother FLED him with the children, meaning they feared for their safety - and of course the father would deny it wouldn't he?

Apparently, she took them from Italy to Australia, with the father's consent, for a holiday and then refused to return them.

If the father is such a monster, why has he fought for 2 years to get his daughters back? He must love them very much.

Originally posted by ollncasino

I do know that the Italian family court, which was in possession of more facts and evidence than you or I, awarded the father custody.

Since then, the mother has certainly tried to portray the father as some sort of closet-monster.

Do you really think the Italian courts aren't susceptible to corruption and pay-offs in the country that invented the Mafia - which is still going strong there by the way?

Apparently, she took them from Italy to Australia, with the father's consent, for a holiday and then refused to return them.

If the father is such a monster, why has he fought for 2 years to get his daughters back? He must love them very much.

Sounds like a perfect example of a scared mother using any excuse to get herself and her children away from a monster. It even has precedence in many cases.

Originally posted by Kryties

Originally posted by ollncasino

I do know that the Italian family court, which was in possession of more facts and evidence than you or I, awarded the father custody.

Since then, the mother has certainly tried to portray the father as some sort of closet-monster.

Do you really think the Italian courts aren't susceptible to corruption and pay-offs in the country that invented the Mafia - which is still going strong there by the way?

Apparently, she took them from Italy to Australia, with the father's consent, for a holiday and then refused to return them.

If the father is such a monster, why has he fought for 2 years to get his daughters back? He must love them very much.

Sounds like a perfect example of a scared mother using any excuse to get herself and her children away from a monster. It even has precedence in many cases.

I thought the Mafia started in Sicily. Not Italy.

reply to post by ollncasino


Hang on...

The mother ran and took her kids to protect them, after all, they were "in hiding" with their Grandmother.
And that brings up something else, obviously the mother and Grandmother are in Australia.

The judge even says that he DOESN'T TRUST the father, and believes that he has lied. But he still sent the kids home to him, against their will!

This is a messed up situation, but based on all of that, I would be ruling that the kids stay with their mother. I don't care if you think the kids are too young to decide, at 9 an up I don't believe they are too young. They can be asked, and they can give an answer. They obviously wanted to stay with their mother, and IMO that should be the end of the story.

Originally posted by Kryties

Do you really think the Italian courts aren't susceptible to corruption and pay-offs in the country that invented the Mafia - which is still going strong there by the way?

Seriously? Do you have any evidence to substantiate your allegation rather than just throwing out accusations?

Originally posted by Kryties

Sounds like a perfect example of a scared mother using any excuse to get herself and her children away from a monster. It even has precedence in many cases.

The father agreed that she could take the children on holiday to Australia and then she refused to return them.

To attempt to portray the mother as "a scared mother using any excuse to get herself and her children away from a monster" is not consistent with the verifiable facts.

reply to post by detachedindividual


She stole the children and took them to another country. How can people not see this? Whatever the other issues involved are, she undertook kidnap to take charge of the children. If the courts ruled any other way than that they have done, they would be condoning kidnap.

reply to post by ollncasino


100% correct.

It would look rather two faced of Australia to let them stay considering the big pushes and pressure that has been applied to get Australian children back whose fathers have taken them overseas illegally.

Anybody who supports the notion that the children should stay here is completely wrong and make Australia look two faced.

Originally posted by ollncasino

Seriously? Do you have any evidence to substantiate your allegation rather than just throwing out accusations?

Nope, do you? You're going around calling for the mothers head yet the only evidence you have is the fact that a court ordered the kids back to Italy? Duuuuude....

The father agreed that she could take the children on holiday to Australia and then she refused to return them.

To attempt to portray the mother as "a scared mother using any excuse to get herself and her children away from a monster" is not consistent with the verifiable facts.

Except the fact that it has happened before to others - mothers taking off with the kids to another country when they feared for their safety.

All things considered, based on what we know and have seen, to me it looks like the more likely case.

Originally posted by magma
reply to post by ChaoticOrder

 

The judge made a direction based on the law.I believe as a father of children the judge made a wise direction.

The father has rights too and the mother disregarded these rights and will learn the lessons she needs to learn

In the long term the children will understand what has transpired

Which all sounds well and good, but what happens when the children run away from the 'alleged' abuse of the father, in a country they havent been in for at least 2 years, and is most definetely not the same country it was then. You say the children will understand what has transpired, at 9 - 13 they already do, they have been shipped off to somewhere they dont want to go with someone they dont want to be with, yeah really big of the state.

As another poster stated, it can depend on who has the bigger pay packet for lawyers