God, Time, Universe?

There's a saying. Some theists believe that God exists out of time. This is something of a contradiction.

For one thing, there's nothing in the Bible that can support this.

Secondly, if God actually exists outside of time, how can he be a part of this universe when time is a big part of this universe? Time has a huge effect on this universe. Stars born, stars die. In fact, i don't think the universe can exist without time.

So if God can be outside of time then how can he be in this universe and be a part of this universe?

reply to post by EvilSadamClone


Father is outside of our time. But, there is still a timetable above. What he can do is go forward or backward to view and event if need be. But, if we pray today, he hears us today, if that makes sense.

The time above is much slower, than it is here.

I have bad news for you sir. the God of the bible does not exist neither does time.

Originally posted by EvilSadamClone
So if God can be outside of time then how can he be in this universe and be a part of this universe?

If God made the universe, why should he be inside it?
Are you part of the things that you make?

Originally posted by EvilSadamClone
There's a saying. Some theists believe that God exists out of time. This is something of a contradiction.

For one thing, there's nothing in the Bible that can support this.

Secondly, if God actually exists outside of time, how can he be a part of this universe when time is a big part of this universe? Time has a huge effect on this universe. Stars born, stars die. In fact, i don't think the universe can exist without time.

So if God can be outside of time then how can he be in this universe and be a part of this universe?

God is immune to paradox. For instance, the idea of God crucified on the cross, God dying, God as first cause, God as love and vengeance, God existing by being non-existent, God as everything etc.

The universe is a part of God. Nothing exists until God imagines it into being. Time is God breathing.

Originally posted by EvilSadamClone
There's a saying. Some theists believe that God exists out of time. This is something of a contradiction.

For one thing, there's nothing in the Bible that can support this.

Secondly, if God actually exists outside of time, how can he be a part of this universe when time is a big part of this universe? Time has a huge effect on this universe. Stars born, stars die. In fact, i don't think the universe can exist without time.

So if God can be outside of time then how can he be in this universe and be a part of this universe?

The Bible does support the notion that God is not only outside time and space, but not part of the universe at all. According to both science and the Bible, the universe is an image God created, a reflection of Himself.

27 So God created mankind in his own image,
in the image of God he created them;
male and female he created them.

He then states that He is Word. Word is wave and information.

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome[a] it.

In physics, the wave of light quanta is the duality of particle and wave. Light is both, but also includes consciousness. God is said to be changeless. This would be consistent with be extra-dimensional.

If you move the first dimension in time, you produce a flat plane. If you move the second dimension in time, you get a 3D object. So far, movement has been in slices. If you move your 3D object (body) in time, you get collapsing wave function. In order to make a choice to move your body in time, you must collapse the indeterminate wave of probability to make a determined choice. The fourth dimension is time. Below the fourth dimension is the changing states of matter. All four dimensions then determine probability for changing the states of matter by slice in time. The fifth dimension is this probability space that is collapsed to the fourth dimension to change the states of matter. Consciousness is needed to make this happen with purpose. God is above this process, although this is conceptually impossible for us to fully grasp.

Now is dependent on what came before and so is the future. God collapsed the wave to make our future determined, but he is not restricted to now. To any extra-dimensional being, time is only a factor for the one collapsing the wave, but not for the one outside the process.

To bring this into our own reality, the computer is a model for this process. When you order a game machine with the games preloaded, the user collapses the wave function of the memory locations to play the programmed game. The user experiences the game as his own creation moment to moment. In reality, the game was designed and experienced long before the user rides the wave. Time is relative, just as the text below.

If I said, go right, what would you say is wrong with the directions below?

Right -----------------------I AM HERE ---------------------------LEFT

You would say, right is backwards. Maybe, but I am facing you behind the directions. For me, right is your left. For you, my right is your left. Time and wave function will be the same by the perspective of the user and the creator. His reality is not necessarily yours.

The Bible states this about God:

‘But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.’

This can easily indicate time dilation.

24 “The God who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth and does not live in temples built by human hands. 25 And he is not served by human hands, as if he needed anything. Rather, he himself gives everyone life and breath and everything else. 26 From one man he made all the nations, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he marked out their appointed times in history and the boundaries of their lands. 27 God did this so that they would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from any one of us. 28 ‘For in him we live and move and have our being.’ As some of your own poets have said, ‘We are his offspring.’

There is a great deal of information here. He has marked out times, as in future to us but programmed to him. Remember, God is Word.

If you read the Bible for all it's worth, you will find much more than this on the subject.

Our time is only relative to us orbiting our sun and how fast the earth spins on it's axis
I highly doubt that is how the whole galaxy keeps time using earths rotation.

Or maybe past present and future all happen at the same time

Originally posted by EvilSadamClone
There's a saying. Some theists believe that God exists out of time. This is something of a contradiction.

For one thing, there's nothing in the Bible that can support this.

Secondly, if God actually exists outside of time, how can he be a part of this universe when time is a big part of this universe? Time has a huge effect on this universe. Stars born, stars die. In fact, i don't think the universe can exist without time.

So if God can be outside of time then how can he be in this universe and be a part of this universe?

But... it IS plausible for something to exist "outside" of time and still be "within" the universe. In fact we can observe it empirically. This is because time warps (moves slower) with a strong force of gravity caused by massive objects in the universe. Black holes are tears in the fabric of space-time. Their gravity is so strong that time ceases to exist.

reply to post by DarkKnight21

It is man who lives in the environment of time .When the Lord was sent down to earth and took on flesh , he had to become flesh and be born of flesh . Flesh is constrained by time , not the soul . There shall be no flesh in heaven . The environment we have supports that flesh . We are in a self limiting environment designed to let us live but not too long . God does not need this life supporting incubator we live in . Are we to say God is flesh?

reply to post by SimonPeter


No I think God is outside of time and space. I was merely challenging the OP's premise that "the universe can't exist without time." I also had a problem with the claim that God being outside of time, space and matter is unbiblical but I think EnochWasRight already cleared that one up.

Came across this earlier...



Enjoy!

reply to post by EvilSadamClone


God is timeless being.
Time is a lie. Check for yourself and see if you have ever known any other time but now.
Now is presence. Gods presence.

It is only man who imagines another time - we say tomorrow but tomorrow is said now. Can you ever experience tomorrow? Or yesterday? You will only ever experience now.

This right here and right now is timeless being. But humans have words that lead them to believe that there is something outside of this.
Humans believe in 'other' when in reality there is only ever 'this'. 'This' is presence.