New Paul Ryan video - 30% of Americans want "welfare state" and reject the American dream.

reply to post by longlostbrother


I can testify just how right he is about this.

I have an uncle who has done "nothing" for most of his life but ride around in his wheel chair. Sure he lost his legs and a hand in Korea, but he should be doing something with what he has left.

My aunt works as a hotel maid... surely she could do more if she would. she acts like the world owes him and her both something.

I have a mother-in-law, 67years old, who always let her husband make the living in the mines. Now she draws a check and does "nothing" for it.

These are the people Paul Ryan are talking about, and I wished he could tell them just how he thinks they should be treated.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic

Don't you just LOVE being categorized into one percentage or the other? It reduces our humanity to a commodity, that can be shuffled and manipulated and USED to further their agenda.

Using numbers helps quantify issues. Someone has to do it, otherwise decisions would be made based upon pure emotion and/or whoever speaks loudest. Of course numbers and statistics can be manipulated, and I'm sure both sides are guilty of this quite often.

Oh, and Mr. Ryan, just because someone is on Welfare, doesn't mean they WANT to be. You freaking idiot!

That's exactly what his point was.. skip to 1:19

“At least half of the people in that category are their not of their wish or their will”

He was merely identifying a trend that he would like to see slowed or reversed.

This video is a yawner. But, it appears both sides are reaching for anything at all at this point in the game.

He probably really believes this.

In his mind, there are millions of people laughing and drinking Pabst while giving one another high 5s, saying "Yeah, boyeeeeee! Got my Gubmint cheese and I don't have to work!"

Because everyone on government assistance is happy and glad they cannot find a job.

What a sickening thought. Perhaps if Paul Ryan ever had to go hungry for 3 days he would wake up to the reality of poverty, rather than use his limited, streotypical scope for guidance.


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Originally posted by Zarniwoop
reply to post by Benevolent Heretic

 

Don't you just LOVE being categorized into one percentage or the other? It reduces our humanity to a commodity, that can be shuffled and manipulated and USED to further their agenda.

Using numbers helps quantify issues. Someone has to do it, otherwise decisions would be made based upon pure emotion and/or whoever speaks loudest. Of course numbers and statistics can be manipulated, and I'm sure both sides are guilty of this quite often.

Oh, and Mr. Ryan, just because someone is on Welfare, doesn't mean they WANT to be. You freaking idiot!

That's exactly what his point was.. skip to 1:19

“At least half of the people in that category are their not of their wish or their will”

He was merely identifying a trend that he would like to see slowed or reversed.

This video is a yawner. But, it appears both sides are reaching for anything at all at this point in the game.

Yeah your right, he just think one in three don't want the American dream.

Originally posted by longlostbrother

Yeah your right, he just think one in three don't want the American dream.

Shouldnt this dream be defined?

As it stands it's simply an abstract with no concrete meaning.

Chances are that one third of the population doesnt share my American dream.

Originally posted by jjkenobi


Obamaphones for everyone!

You know "Obamaphones" have been around since Reagan, right? Reagan, Bush, Clinton, Bush 2, Obama. That's plenty of conservative Presidents that could have shut the program down.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


It boggles my mind that a Presidential ticket would spend so much time belittling and angering potential voters in a race that they need every dang vote they can get.

reply to post by thisguyrighthere


Webster says..

American Dream Definition

American Dream:

: an American social ideal that stresses egalitarianism and especially material prosperity; also : the prosperity or life that is the realization of this ideal

Examples of AMERICAN DREAM

1. with the acquisition of a big house in the suburbs, they felt as though the American dream had indeed become a reality for them

So, I had to look up “Egalitarianism”

Egalitarianism Definition

Egalitarianism

1
: a belief in human equality especially with respect to social, political, and economic affairs
2
: a social philosophy advocating the removal of inequalities among people

So, the "American Dream", by definition, is creating material prosperity among all people through the removal of inequalities.

That doesn't really sound like the GOP campaign.

Originally posted by Zarniwoop

So, the "American Dream", by definition, is creating material prosperity among all people through the removal of inequalities.

That in itself is an abstract ideal.

Do we send everyone to Harvard or do we ban everyone from Harvard?
Do we give everyone a Buick or do we ban everyone from having a Buick?

Is equality an absolute or does it have degrees?
Potential equality or kinetic equality? Further, potential or kinetic intrinsic or extrinsic?

Obama's definition, apparently, is more focused yet still riddled with improbabilities:

. If you will, he expresses the need for all of us to share in the American Dream. For Senator Obama, this means good jobs, education, health care, safety, and affordable housing.

The Rhetoric of Hope and the American Dream

How to accomplish this is one question. The term "good" is of course subjective. In line with the thread could there be one third of the country that does not agree with this view?

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic
- I hate to tell ya - but up until this day and age there are PLENTY (put a percentage on that) that live and breath off welfare. Those who learn, understand and expose loopholes in the system and TEACH others to do so, especially their children.. AND it continues to grow because they let them do so,,,, You can't place every welfare recipent into this but a majority of them yes you can.... Numbers skewed but it is and has happened more than not and it will continue.........

reply to post by thisguyrighthere


That is precisely why politicians should stop using the term. It is meaningless without further definition.

They are simply using an emotional buzzword to appeal to the peoples' idea of their own dreams.

I just thought the Websters def was amusing in the context of the Ryan speech and what he was trying to get across.

People had to pay back what they get from welfare there would be a lot less people on it.

This nation where there are more takers than makers which is what I have been sayin for quite some time:

There are more people consuming the wealth of others than making their own that cost has only increased, and will continue to increase.

Something needs to be done and when a certain group twists that in to they just hate poor people etc.

are clueless.

There are generations of families who depend on welfare

Ryan is right the statistic can not lie.

More attacks against him speaking the truth just shows
how the media doesn't want the truth spoken..

It will come back to bite them soon, when the money has ran out
and these people storm and mob the white house,

They have created their own worse enemy..

Originally posted by hdchop
reply to post by Benevolent Heretic

 

- I hate to tell ya - but up until this day and age there are PLENTY (put a percentage on that) that live and breath off welfare. Those who learn, understand and expose loopholes in the system and TEACH others to do so, especially their children.. AND it continues to grow because they let them do so,,,, You can't place every welfare recipent into this but a majority of them yes you can.... Numbers skewed but it is and has happened more than not and it will continue.........

I hate to tell you that your typical mouth breathing welfare legacy, who learn from birth to be poor, have nothing on the fat cats who have lawyers who teach how to exploit government assistance, (subsidies for rich, welfare for poor) and it continues to grow because they put their own into the ranks to make it so.

It's quite possible that only sports stars are the ones who actually make millions based on ability, and even those guys are simply used up and thrown away at the end.

Originally posted by neo96
People had to pay back what they get from welfare there would be a lot less people on it.

That's not really a solution. If anything it's a penalty for success.

Either you simply never go off of it or you are in so much debt after going off of it that you still need assistance to make ends meet while paying back the previous assistance you no longer need.

The benefit of earning an income has to be substantially greater than the benefit of living on assistance.

Unfortunately there is no simple formula for working that out as quality of life is subjective.

If, working 40+ hours a week, I'll still be in this assisted housing complex, still eating macaroni and cheese every night, still without a car, why should I bother working 40+ hours a week. Even worse is that I may no longer qualify for the assisted housing and I'll have to find a new place to live and move my family who all have friends in the complex.

At that point the generational lifestyle learning comes into play.

Now I raise my kids in an assisted housing complex or project. So many people live here that the school is almost half made up of project kids. Which in turn makes the school a pretty crappy one.

Hypothetical of course though very real cycle.

Once they become comfortable or acclimated to the lifestyle they have very little incentive to change anything and quite a few incentives to stay where they are. Especially when single mom can bring home guy after guy after guy to make up for the simple things she cant outright afford and get nice meals out once in a while.

My mother had a friend like that. I used to be friends with her kids. Shockingly she's still doing what she was doing 40 years ago and her kids are all in jail. The entire project community was that way with the exception of some retired folks who just wanted to be left alone. They were preyed on by the children often.

So a simple "pay it back" scheme would be counter-productive in the end.

The only real solution is to stop assistance altogether for anyone and everyone. Which I would support.

If it ceases to be an option people will adapt.

Statistics can lie.

There are statistics and there are damned statistics.

Think about it.

In Michigan a law went into effect last Tuesday that if a child of a person on welfare mises more than 10 days a year they lose bennifits for that child. The school where my wife works is getting more kids in every day but most have already missed more than 10. And were talking 4th and 5th graders here. Parents are calling wanting to know how to make up the days or saying their child went to a different school for a few weeks. One family of 4 kids all showed up like they hadn't missed a day but they were no longer on the rolls and reported to the state. Like I said this is 4th and 5th grade.

Ryan is 100% correct. I had to listen to the video a couple of times to see if he was indeed saying what some of you are saying he said.

Simply speaking, about 70% of Americans still strive for the American Dream of financial independence and freedom to accomplish their goals to achieve all their potential even if they are receiving some form of g'ment assistance at the present time. We are still a right-of-center people, which has always defined the goal-driven accomplishment-oriented nature of the American society.

About 30% are content to suck at the tit of Big Government and have no aspirations to change. If you don't think that's true, you are living with your head in the sand or you just don't get out and about and listen and watch.

He discussed the tipping point, a point at which our American society becomes dependent on those Big Tits of Government. At that point, we lose who we are and become "fundamentally transformed" into something other than America.

Originally posted by queenofswords
Ryan is 100% correct. I had to listen to the video a couple of times to see if he was indeed saying what some of you are saying he said.

Simply speaking, about 70% of Americans still strive for the American Dream of financial independence and freedom to accomplish their goals to achieve all their potential even if they are receiving some form of g'ment assistance at the present time. We are still a right-of-center people, which has always defined the goal-driven accomplishment-oriented nature of the American society.

About 30% are content to suck at the tit of Big Government and have no aspirations to change. If you don't think that's true, you are living with your head in the sand or you just don't get out and about and listen and watch.

He discussed the tipping point, a point at which our American society becomes dependent on those Big Tits of Government. At that point, we lose who we are and become "fundamentally transformed" into something other than America.

edit on 3-10-2012 by queenofswords because: (no reason given)

Ryan is a hypocrite who used welfare money to pay for his own education.

High horse.

Originally posted by campanionator

Originally posted by queenofswords
Ryan is 100% correct. I had to listen to the video a couple of times to see if he was indeed saying what some of you are saying he said.

Simply speaking, about 70% of Americans still strive for the American Dream of financial independence and freedom to accomplish their goals to achieve all their potential even if they are receiving some form of g'ment assistance at the present time. We are still a right-of-center people, which has always defined the goal-driven accomplishment-oriented nature of the American society.

About 30% are content to suck at the tit of Big Government and have no aspirations to change. If you don't think that's true, you are living with your head in the sand or you just don't get out and about and listen and watch.

He discussed the tipping point, a point at which our American society becomes dependent on those Big Tits of Government. At that point, we lose who we are and become "fundamentally transformed" into something other than America.

edit on 3-10-2012 by queenofswords because: (no reason given)

Ryan is a hypocrite who used welfare money to pay for his own education.

High horse.

Our meaning of "welfare" is evidently different. I don't consider SS benefits welfare. I don't consider student loans (which you will eventually pay off) welfare. I don't consider SBA low interest loans welfare.