Iran's [Seemingly Logical] Stance Against the State of Israel

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posted on Oct, 3 2012 @ 03:00 AM
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I know this thread is not going to be popular with many but sometimes we have to look to history for the answers to today's questions and problems.

In 2006, Mahmoud Ahmedinajad sent a letter to G W Bush. In the letter, he brought up the question of Israel-



Mr. President,

I am sure you know how – and at what cost – Israel was established:

- Many thousands were killed in the process.

- Millions of indigenous people were made refugees.

- Hundreds of thousands of hectares of farmland, olive plantations, towns and villages were destroyed.

This tragedy is not exclusive to the time of establishment; unfortunately it has been ongoing for sixty years now.

A regime has been established which does not show mercy even to kids, destroys houses while the occupants are still in them, announces beforehand its list and plans to assassinate Palestinian figures, and keeps thousands of Palestinians in prison. Such a phenomenon is unique – or at the very least extremely rare – in recent memory.



I’d like to use this thread to discuss the point of view from Iran and the Palestinian people whilst addressing the points from the above letter.

As many know, Israel was created not long after the end of world war two. The Nazis had forced the Jews from Europe and many thousands settled in Palestine. In 1948, the state of Israel was officially declared. Yet, it is important to understand that the Zionist movement had sought to create a homeland for the Jews in Palestine well before WW2.

The Zionist aim to set up a homeland for the Jews in Palestine went back to the beginnings of Zionism which officially came into being at end of the 19th century.

One of the finest examples to show this agenda is a WW1 letter sent by British Foreign Secretary Arthur Balfour-



If you take the time to read the letter, you will see it is addressed to none other than Lord Rothschild himself! The letter, sent in 1917, was confirming that the British sympathised with the Zionist desire to create a homeland for the Jews in Palestine. Where what actually happened differs from the letter is in how the British had only agreed to this new settlement if the Palestinian people were respected and none of their ‘civil or religious rights’ were to be affected.

We only have to look at the ever decreasing size of the Palestinians land to see that the Zionists continue to steal land without any regard for how many Palestinians lose their homes and livelihoods.



Clearly, the conditions for British sympathy for the Zionist movement was not carried out when Israel was created. Since the end of WW2, the Palestinians have continued to lose their land to this very day. What justifies this? Why is it acceptable?

As the 2006 letter to Bush mentions, thousands were killed in the violence that resulted in this take over, millions have been made refugees to make way for the Zionists.

It’s not as though things have gotten better either, the region has been in constant strife since 1948 as the surrounding nations do not believe Israel is a legitimate state and disagree with the treatment of those who neighbour Israel.

In 2006, 3 Israeli soldiers were killed and two taken by Hezbollah forces. Since the attacks were launched from Lebanon, the Israeli government launched a prolonged air strike campaign against Lebanon.



The air strikes lasted for 33 days, destroying 350 schools, two hospitals, 15,000 homes and 400 miles of roads. The vast majority of people killed in Lebanon were civilians, with Amnesty International reporting that 30% of the deaths were of children under the age of 13.

In total, the death toll in Lebanon was over 1,000 as the Israeli forces attacked indiscriminately throughout the campaign.

It is worth pointing out at this time that the reason Israel had and still has such an overwhelming military advantage is because the west funds the Israeli military, sending billions of dollars every year to buy war planes and weapons.

The policies and actions of the Israeli government is seemingly irrelevant when it comes to sending money as it is clearly deemed our taxes are well spent-











So because the Jews suffered the Holocaust, that entitles the Zionists to create a state of Israel in Palestine, take away the land of the people living there and treat them like sub human scum?

Why on Earth does our tax money pay for this? It was the Nazi’s who forced the Jews from Europe, so why didn’t Europe give up some land to be a homeland for the Jews?

The creation of Israel has brought nothing but misery and conflict to the region, although it isn’t hard to see that was the agenda all along when the Rothschild’s were one of the main forces behind it’s creation.

This is not a thread against Jews, it is a thread against political Zionism that worked behind the scenes to create Israel in Palestine- an agenda that has led to untold suffering in the region for both Palestinians and Jews. Both sides are victims and pawns in this sick game.




posted on Oct, 3 2012 @ 03:16 AM
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reply to post by Wonderer2012
 


If Palestinians want peace they can stop terror related attacks. If Iran wants to speak it can stop funding and supporting terrorists. Not much else to say. Oh and your thread will be popular, the anti-Israel crowd is big here.


+7 more 
posted on Oct, 3 2012 @ 03:27 AM
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reply to post by OccamsRazor04
 



So your logic is that everyone but Israel is at fault?

Israel is far from innocent in all of it.
edit on 3/10/12 by Todzer because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 3 2012 @ 03:30 AM
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This is one of the more perplexing of international issues. I agree that the establishment of Israel was on shaky grounds.

But that's 60 years ago now. There is a whole new generation living there, and a dual state solution violates the logic of Ahmadinejad's argument. He opposes Israel on the grounds of unethical establishment.

At what point is the line drawn and the state stays? Should America be handed back over to various Indigenous tribes?

There has to be room for compromise, some Jewish governance has to stay in Jerusalem for at least the near term.

I think the area should be eliminated as a nation-state and reformed as a capital of all religions equally. An IGO headquarter with equal representation from Christianity, Judaism, and Islam.

The most likely solution is a Jewish West Jerusalem, and a Palestinian East-Jerusalem. Two separate states.



posted on Oct, 3 2012 @ 03:37 AM
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You know what

The Jews aren't innocent but they also kind of just got stuck in the situation.

Anywhere else in the world practically this would simply be allowed to be fought out and everyone knows Israel would kick the crap out of them and this would be over.

How do we sit here and go back and forth over the atrocities, war is crap... nothing GOOD happens.

But any other nation but the Jews would at least be allowed to end it. This should have been over 50 years ago.


I'll say one true negative thing about Israel... they should just leave the whole having your own nation thing isn't worth it, it's a junk part of the world every holy roller wants it so they are always messed with, if the Israelis were as smart as the rest of the worlds Jews they would just go and let the other monotheists kill themselves over a stupid piece of land they think will grant them some bs nonexistent magic powers



posted on Oct, 3 2012 @ 03:37 AM
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Originally posted by OccamsRazor04
reply to post by Wonderer2012
 


If Palestinians want peace they can stop terror related attacks. If Iran wants to speak it can stop funding and supporting terrorists. Not much else to say. Oh and your thread will be popular, the anti-Israel crowd is big here.


Israel was built on terrorism.. heres some proof from one of their own.


When the buy-out effort was able to obtain only a few percent of the land, Zionists created a number of terrorist groups to fight against both the Palestinians and the British. Terrorist and future Israeli Prime Minister Menachem Begin later bragged that Zionists had brought terrorism both to the Middle East and to the world at large.


Any more proof?


Menachem Begin said “The massacre was not only justified, but there would not have been a state of Israel without the victory at Deir Yassin.” Unashamed of their deed and unaffected by world condemnation, the Zionist forces, using loud-speakers, roamed the streets of cities warning Arab inhabitants “The Jericho road is still open,” they told Jerusalem Arabs “Fly from Jerusalem before you are killed, like those in Deir Yassin.”


And theres more. How about a testimony from one of the people whooccupied Deir Yassin after the massacre..


Zvi Ankori, who commanded the Haganah unit that occupied Deir Yasin after the massacre, gave this statement in 1982 about the massacre, published by Davar on April 9, 1982

"I went into 6 to 7 houses. I saw cut off genitalia and women’s crushed stomaches. According to the shooting signs on the bodies, it was direct murder.”


So do you really blame the palestinians for attacking Israel? Unlike the Israelis who seem to shrug off the atrocities they committed back in the day, some of them Palestinians will never forget. Israel was built with the blood of innocent Muslims. When you talk about barbarians, look no further than the parasites who cleansed palestine and now hide behind the holocaust. Sometimes I think they are using the holocaust to hide the truth about there own genocide..

You may say thats history.. fair enough, but so is the promised land from 1000's of years ago. Israel are hypocrites and compulsive liars.

attendingtheworld.wordpress.com...
edit on 3-10-2012 by DarknStormy because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 3 2012 @ 03:56 AM
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reply to post by Wonderer2012
 


Nice Thread


One small note though. The Zionist movement isn't Jewish in nature, It's Khazarian's pretending to be Jewish. As they have been for hundreds of years.



posted on Oct, 3 2012 @ 03:58 AM
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Originally posted by OccamsRazor04
reply to post by Wonderer2012
 


If Palestinians want peace they can stop terror related attacks. If Iran wants to speak it can stop funding and supporting terrorists. Not much else to say. Oh and your thread will be popular, the anti-Israel crowd is big here.


You read nothing of the main post? If anything... the palestinians army is a liberating force, not a terrorist one. They are trying to defend the loss of land which you can CLEARLY see depicted by the maps posted in the original post.

We in the west had no right what so ever to judge where the remaining jews could take up settlement, especially not when it also so clearly meant that they did so in such a way that a lot of innocent people were killed.
The Zionists didn't by definition make the first blow, but they nagged like little children the allies so much that they made them do the dirty work.

It's despicable.

The bad thing today is that the common jew man, woman and child AND the arab man woman and child, probably don't care about the religious fanatisism of their leaders. They just want to live in peace and even with eachother.
The problems clearly lie within government and extremist religious groups like the zionists. They are no longer the voice of the people... they use us and them as slaves and instigate hatred amongst us.

That is also another very clear reason why it is time that we the people in all countries that present themselves as democratic rise up and hold accountable the people who for too long have made us accomplices to murder and slaughter of peoples.



posted on Oct, 3 2012 @ 04:03 AM
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reply to post by flice
 


I read the propaganda. Stop lobbing rockets into Israel, stop being terrorists, stop harboring terrorists. Enough said.



posted on Oct, 3 2012 @ 04:10 AM
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Originally posted by OccamsRazor04
reply to post by flice
 
I read the propaganda.


Didn't have to explain yourself, your very predictable.
edit on 3-10-2012 by DarknStormy because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 3 2012 @ 04:29 AM
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Those Nazis oppressed Jews , but Palestinians should pay for them.

That is all the logic is about.



posted on Oct, 3 2012 @ 04:49 AM
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reply to post by mideast
 


Here's a popular pro-Palestinian line of logic. Who lived there in the past is not relevant, only who is there now. If we look at the past Jews certainly have history on the land. If we look in the present, they have a claim there too. So you should avoid that line of reasoning. Instead let's work with what we have. That can only be done when Palestinians choose peace over terror.



posted on Oct, 3 2012 @ 08:25 AM
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Originally posted by OccamsRazor04
reply to post by mideast
 


Here's a popular pro-Palestinian line of logic. Who lived there in the past is not relevant, only who is there now. If we look at the past Jews certainly have history on the land. If we look in the present, they have a claim there too. So you should avoid that line of reasoning. Instead let's work with what we have. That can only be done when Palestinians choose peace over terror.


great point



posted on Oct, 3 2012 @ 09:35 AM
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Originally posted by OccamsRazor04
reply to post by Wonderer2012
 


If Palestinians want peace they can stop terror related attacks. If Iran wants to speak it can stop funding and supporting terrorists. Not much else to say. Oh and your thread will be popular, the anti-Israel crowd is big here.


Study some history. Palestine agreed to peace terms but Israel didn't honor the agreement. And you may as well lay off the anti Israeli whine just because people want to see the government of Israel held accountable for the crimes it commits doesn't mean they are anti Israel.



posted on Oct, 3 2012 @ 09:42 AM
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Originally posted by OccamsRazor04
reply to post by mideast
 


Here's a popular pro-Palestinian line of logic. Who lived there in the past is not relevant, only who is there now. If we look at the past Jews certainly have history on the land. If we look in the present, they have a claim there too. So you should avoid that line of reasoning. Instead let's work with what we have. That can only be done when Palestinians choose peace over terror.


Are you willing to get off your land just because someone claimed it belonged to them 2000 years ago? If you support your logic if some Sumerians were to show up today then you would support the Israelis having to move because the land belonged to the Sumerians first. Also how can you support a bunch of Europeans claiming land in the middle east as their homeland when they are not of Semitic heritage?



posted on Oct, 3 2012 @ 09:45 AM
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Originally posted by DarknStormy

Originally posted by OccamsRazor04
reply to post by mideast
 


Here's a popular pro-Palestinian line of logic. Who lived there in the past is not relevant, only who is there now. If we look at the past Jews certainly have history on the land. If we look in the present, they have a claim there too. So you should avoid that line of reasoning. Instead let's work with what we have. That can only be done when Palestinians choose peace over terror.


great point


Really not that great of a point when it is Israel that is committing the most acts of terror.



posted on Oct, 3 2012 @ 10:30 AM
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To OP

You took effort in writing that post, commendable, but only for effort. As for truth and realities, it falls far short, for your peice is totally subjective, on the side of the Palestinians.

It is definately easy to side with the Palestinians when others use the victim cards, as Arafat had done for decades, refused help in social welfare for the Palestinian refugees provided by the Free West, while the issue of occupied territories get sorted out.

Instead he and his bunch of gansters with guns and bombs, funded by radicals and misled fools, sought to 'wipe-out' the jews, with the policy of 'pushing the jews' into the sea, an idealogy that is STILL shared by Hamas today.

Hamas had been fools and manipulated to keep the fight going on non-stop, not for the palestinian people, but so that one Islamic sect and an apostate infidel persian leader can avoid being targetted as focus is upon hatred of the children of the Book.

If recent events had not awaken Hamas, then they will only bring further pain to its own people. Recently, a foreigner palestine supporter activist was found murdered by radical Islamists within Hamas, these paid radicals who had insidiously wanted palestinians forever enchained in war. The palestinian masses knew that foreigner well, raised hue and cry for justice for him.

Hamas eventually found the murderers and hanged them. Point is - May Hamas know full well what kind of support and funding they had been getting - to bring peace to Palestinians, or to continue being made used of by other regional powers for a greater power game being played?

Israel is no angel either, with its continued expansion of occupied lands beyond the 1948 UN mandate, along with a loud vocal minority hardliners hell bent on seflishness.

But it is not helped by Hamas continued insistance on 'pushing the jews into the sea', which NO Israelite nor Free World citizen would condone. Hamas best wake up to the manipulations by the persian apostate infidel leader's forked tongue promises and his crocodile tears.

There is still time for a 2 state solution. May Hamas wake up, continue with its reform, and Israel give up its occupied territories. Moses only had to spend 40 years of wandering the desert to clean up the jews so that a new generation, clean from the evil of their previous generations, to take the land alotted to them.

It's been 70 plus years for the palestinians with at least 2 new generations now. It is time to come home... in peace, and share the land as fellow human brothers and sisters under the rule of law, which is only the eventual progress and evolution of ancient Islamic laws, from sparse barbaric nomads of the 7th century, to city dwellers, to meet a growing civilised population destined to evolve and progress....
edit on 3-10-2012 by SeekerofTruth101 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 3 2012 @ 10:40 AM
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Aha. The Jews that were killed in the holocaust were nothing but pawns.

Is it just mere coincidence Hitler went for the Jews? Think the funding he received had anything to do with it?

The Balfour treaty had nothing to do with sympathy, it was all strategic.

www.abovetopsecret.com...



posted on Oct, 3 2012 @ 10:45 AM
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Originally posted by Mandrakerealmz
reply to post by Wonderer2012
 


Nice Thread


One small note though. The Zionist movement isn't Jewish in nature, It's Khazarian's pretending to be Jewish. As they have been for hundreds of years.


Well that's Rev 3:9-

"Will make those who are of the synagogue of Satan, who claim to be Jews though they are not, but are liars--I will make them come and fall down at your feet and acknowledge that I have loved you."

Zionism, as a politcal movement does not represent the Jews. It worked almost non stop from it's inception to create a state of Israel in Palestine. They knew this would cause trouble and strife, as it has done since Israel began in 1948.

The Jewish people themselves are innocent in this, they are caught up in this agenda.

Many Jews are against what Israel does and wish for peace, just as many Palestinians do-





The world has to somehow stop buying into the hatred and division the elite set up to control us. Jews want peace, this former airforce captain can see that Israel commits war crimes. He sees the danger as well as the violence and hatred gets worse.



The Zionists, as a political movement, created Israel. They had an agenda to do so as we can see from the letter from Balfour to Lord Rothschild, these people knew the creation of Israel would cause this trouble and suffering.



posted on Oct, 3 2012 @ 10:52 AM
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I have some questions relating back to the creation of the country of Israel, and it's designation of a "State for the Jewish people to call home"

WHY?

Why should 1 particular group of people get a piece of land "given" to them via treaty and declaration? Are there not other groups of people, indigenous or not, as worthy based on religions or regional discrimination as the Jews to get a country of their own?

I guess in a nutshell, the question is- why was 1 single group of people given so much while others are ignored?





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