Are there bigger HYPOCRITES on this planet then atheists???

Originally posted by rtyfx
reply to post by truejew

 

Obama claims to be Christian.

I'm not judging. I'm stating my opinion. Even if I was judging, who cares?

"Born" seems to feel himself in a superior position to atheists because he believes. He isn't. We all sit to take a crap.

If he wants to feel superior maybe he should hang out with a few jailhouse Christians for a while, gain a little perspective.

No one is above anyone else in this place. We are all animals in a zoo.

Wow rtyfx, you are such a nice bloke, I must have got you all wrong.
There you go judging me saying I am a superior person, seems you and the other atheists prefer that mantle.

I dont want to feel superior, I just dont want to believe what you believe, maybe you should hang around a few jailhouse atheists and see what life is really about.

You may think you are an animal. Like Hitler assumed of Jews Poles Gypsy's Homosexuals etc..
Good luck with that.


If indeed I have no right to judge you, what right have atheists to judge me?
The question still stands

Originally posted by borntowatch

You denied the existence of one horned animals, that in itself was funny, and then proven wrong.

Incorrect. I assumed as a matter of course that the one-horned rhino wasn't really a possible candidate for a "re'em" considering that it did not ever exist in Africa, the Near East, or Europe and there is absolutely zero evidence that any of the biblical authors ever ventured out to the Himalayas or the Indonesian archipelago to have witnessed a one-horned rhino. In a similar manner I also excluded the arctic-dwelling narwal and wouldn't expect the ancient religious traditions of Eskimos to provide descriptions of kangaroos or reference the occasional hippopotamus in their stories of moral instruction.

Once you postulated that the Hebrews were, in fact, talking about various species of rhinoceros that at no time were native to any of the areas known to be inhabited by the authors of the bible...I merely pointed out that in my estimation I find this to be highly, HIGHLY unlikely and think that it is far more plausible that it is but one of the many blatant inaccuracies in the bible and that furthermore this inaccuracy is evidentiary of the reason why "the bible" is obviously not to be taken very literally or seriously.

Please...do tell. What other one-horned animal could the hebrews have been talking about? Am I missing one? If I have somehow forgotten some obscure strain of desert-dwelling one-horned reindeer or something please let me know and I will be more than happy to revise my conclusion.

That's what academics and scientists do. When they are presented with new information they evaluate it, and if the data "checks out"...they modify their conclusions. There's no shame in it...it's a GOOD thing.

So...please share with all of us. Were the Hebrews talking about some other sort of one-horned animal or is the bible simply incorrect and the Hebrews weren't talking about ANY animal that only had one horn? Or are you sticking w/ the idea that it MUST have been a species of rhinoceros that was not ever once known to have ever roamed any of the lands occupied by the Hebrews. Or are all three wrong and the Hebrews are really just referencing the very dramatically one-horned Elasmotherium whose existence had somehow persisted in the oral tradition of the Hebrews despite having gone extinct 50,000 years ago because the bible is clearly wrong about the earth being 9,000 yrs old?

and now I see why you are so angry, I re read that post, I tore your fairys and unicorn dreams to shreds.
I recommend other atheists read that post and stay away from such silly arguments as the one you proposed in future duicussions.

Wait....what?!?!

So...now you are saying that I am the one who dreams of fairy's and unicorns, huh? Me...the Atheist who believes in fairy's and unicorns.

Interesting spin, my friend.

Originally posted by borntowatch

oh and by the way, your post you linked held nothing to justify the facts you claim.

edit on 16-10-2012 by borntowatch because: (no reason given)

What...are you just hoping that everybody takes your word for it and nobody else clicks on the link? Anybody who clicks on the link can see your reply to me. Why not just say "Yeah...you're right. My bad...I was having a bad day and that's not what jesus would have done." or something?

reply to post by borntowatch

I dont want to feel superior, I just dont want to believe what you believe, maybe you should hang around a few jailhouse atheists and see what life is really about.

If it's a matter of choosing what to believe, then there's really no meaning to either atheism or theism, is there? There's only the individual value as assigned by personal perspective. Which means that no one is wrong, and no one is right.

Just like a guy would be neither wrong nor right for preferring strawberry ice cream over vanilla. That's his right, he isn't harming anyone, so why argue over it?

The contention arises when someone's perspective results in them judging and condemning and expressing contempt over things that are none of their concern, or preferring to sit back and let their invisible friends handle clear problems instead of taking a stand, or blaming tragedies and preventable catastrophes and ill fortune on another's lifestyle or on another invisible friend. In short, using their "perspective" to assign blame and shirk responsibility as they see fit.

That's where the problem rises. I'll gladly admit to atheists being hypocrites, but that doesn't mean your poo smells any better. Man's understanding has always been flawed, which means EVERYTHING must be taken with a grain of salt, because even today, we are constantly rewriting things we took for granted.

It's time to stop pretending we know everything, stop pretending we're so righteous and deserving, because our fellow human beings are getting hurt by it. We're hurting our own brothers and sisters. If some deity seems a worthy excuse, then destroy yourself for that deity - leave the rest of us alone. We didn't ask for you to worship a contemptuous egotistical creature of mythology...so don't punish us because you do.

Hypocrisy is very thin ice to tap dance upon, and if you step wrong, your entire argument goes KA-PLOOSH!!! And just like a broken ship, you'll go down with it. Spare your integrity the inevitable humiliation, and admit that you're no better than any of us.

Originally posted by borntowatch

I dont want to feel superior, I just dont want to believe what you believe, maybe you should hang around a few jailhouse atheists and see what life is really about.

"Jailhouse Atheists", huh? Yep...no superiority complex there. Let's just not even bother to mention all the devoutly christian neo-nazi skinhead in "the jailhouse". It's only "jailhouse atheists".

If indeed I have no right to judge you, what right have atheists to judge me?
The question still stands

Well...if you referring to your original question and the title of this thread "Are there bigger HYPOCRITES on this planet then atheists???"...you've already answered it.

According to YOUR OWN LOGIC atheists are simply incapable of hypocrisy by definition. According to your own statements made numerous times and in numerous ways you feel that atheists "believe in nothing" and have "no moral standard". Thus, according to your own definitions (albeit somewhat odd and misguided definitions) atheists simply cannot be accused of acting in a manner that it is not in accordance with their belief-system or morals since they don't have any. Ergo, by this logic is in categorically impossible for them to be "hypocrites".

So...according to your logic, the bigger hypocrites than atheists would be everybody who is NOT an atheist.

Nice work, guy.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
We're hurting our own brothers and sisters.

...and there you have the root of the problem don't you? A few posts ago (link: www.abovetopsecret.com... ) borntowatch made it clear that he feels that the bible talks about "brothers" and "brotherhood" it's only referring to people who think the same way he does.

You know because jesus wants you to judge anyone who is not a christian. That's why the bible records jesus as saying:

Luke 23:34
"And Jesus said, “Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do.” And they (roman soldiers) cast lots to divide his garments."

Because everybody knows that jesus was a harsh critic and extremely judgmental of those pagan god-worshipping Roman soldiers who arrested him and carted him off for his execution.

reply to post by milominderbinder


So you're saying that because of the Christian mindset, anyone who isn't Christian won't be seen as equals, so will be treated as inferior...and my post is inapplicable?

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
So you're saying that because of the Christian mindset, anyone who isn't Christian won't be seen as equals, so will be treated as inferior...and my post is inapplicable?

Oh no...not at all. I personally think your post is absolutely applicable and I wouldn't ever suggest that ALL christians are hypocrites and think that they are inherently superior and more righteous than their atheist neighbors. Unfortunatley, there seem to b enough christians like some of those we have seen in this thread running around to have had a significantly detrimental impact on humanity throughout history...a trend which continues and accelerates and this very day.

I really don't care what ANYBODY "believes" or doesn't believe...so long as it doesn't start having really, REALLY detrimental effects upon the people who think differently. When religion is used a justification or partial justification for harsh criminal punishments...I object. That goes for BOTH Sharia Law and posting the 10 Commandments in court houses. You know...why the 10 commandments? Why not a bunch of New Testament "turn the other cheek" and "cast the first stone" type of a message? Sure...punitive amputation takes the cake in terms of shock value and barbarity...but is it really any more humane to convict 18 year old kids of felonies for having a bag of grass or even stealing a car?. Sure...you avoid the exquisite pain of having your hand lopped off...but you trade it for a lifetime of quiet misery and suffering of perpetual institutionally sanctioned poverty.

You see...it starts with something like the 10 Commandments in court that might seem theoretically wrong to an atheist...but aside from a few Bill Maher comedy routines in the '90's we thought we would all be polite and just let the bible-thumpers have their way. After all...it's not an actual change to the LAWS or anything...right?

Then a few years later we do a double-take when a whole lot of these same people want to start teaching creationism or "intelligent design" in science classrooms. We politely nod our heads and try to tell them we "understand"...but you see...we have a separation of church of state and this is simply not acceptable in a public school system.

Then a few years after that we wind up w/ a PRESIDENT who quite literally claims that "god talks to him", invokes the Divine Right of Kings to justify his opinions, and wages a series of WARS based upon "beliefs" instead of evidence, and REFERS TO THEM AS BEING A "CRUSADE". Because of our silence and deference to these christian extremists ONE MILLION or so innocent civilians died and we ran our country into financial ruin.

And NOW we have good ol' Chuckie Fuqua in Arkansas who stated that he wants to roll out capital punishment for "unruly" teenagers in his book. Guess what the title of that book is? ""God's Law: The Only Political Solution". "Only Political Solution" has an uncanny similarity to "Final Solution"...doesn't it? And that's not as alarmist or hyperbolic as it seems given that that good Pastor Charles Morley just recently advocated putting homosexuals in CONCENTRATION CAMPS...just like Hitler QUITE LITERALLY did. The scariest part? HE GOT A STANDING OVATION.

So what...we should just stand by idly and let this insanity continue unchecked until a few kids really ARE killed in Arkansas for the "crime" of getting knocked up, being gay when mom and dad said "no", or staying out past curfew? Bullsh^t...this nonsense has GOT to stop...and stop NOW.

Now, in fairness, I didn't hear any of the christians in this thread come out and agree w/ good ol' Fuqua. However the don't really need to. Ideologically speaking they are in the same ballpark. We both heard truejew and borntowatch cite numerous times and in numerous ways that morality comes from "god" and that the bible ought to be interpreted literally. Borntowatch came flat-out and stated that the "unicorns" in the bible were a MISTRANSLATION...then proceeded to argue that the Hebrews were really talking about a rhinoceros...EVEN AFTER HE STATED THAT IT SHOULDN'T HAVE BEEN TRANSLATED AS "UNICORN"!! WTF!!! THIS SH^T IS GETTING DANGEROUS.

This is what happens when somebody STARTS OUT with the equation:

"Word of God" = Morality = Perfection + ᴟ > Anything Anybody Else Thinks, Does, or Says

Even when they outright ADMIT that their religious text is wrong, they still try to argue that it's "correct". For years I've always tried to take the high road w/ the church-folk and calmly explain to them that atheists really DO have morals, aren't serial killers, and haven't put a "hex on America. But what have we gotten in return? A Religious Right that just keeps advocating policy that is sounding more and more like the Taliban every single day, executions and all.

I'm just really starting to wonder if Appeasment is still a viable strategy

I find religion, overall to be hypocritical by definition. They teach one thing and then show examples with stories of people doing the opposite in deference to their god.

Atheists as individuals can be hypocritical, but as a group, there's not enough room with the simplicity of just a non belief in god/gods.

It depends how you interprete religion. If you take it literally then I can understand why people would turn there nose up at it. Some take it literally and are controlled by it also. But what about taking it from an astrological viewpoint? If the bible is just an ancient scientific puzzle (which it could be), does that mean athiests don't believe there is a Solar System also? What about the Sun even though its right in front of them? The Moon?

Too me God is the Sun. Without it we would be nothing. Take away the magical man in the sky, do some critical thinking and then decide whether its garbage. I think modern religion has hijacked the true meaning from the ancients and it doesn't surprise me people just think its a load of sh!t. There is something to it, we just have to bypass all the BS.

Starting with invisible men telling us what to do.

Originally posted by DelayedChristmas

Originally posted by darkbake

Originally posted by ANOK
To think someone can't have morals, and know what is right or wrong, without believing in God is simply ridiculous.

That is correct. In fact, healthy values are more likely to be found through scientific study and critical thinking than through mystical mandates.

edit on 4-10-2012 by darkbake because: (no reason given)

This is half true. Fasting, which is quite opposite of what modern science tells us is healthy, actually promotes health. I am not arguing that scientific studies do not prove healthy values because it sometimes does and ignorant to not think so, but some mystical mandates such as fasting also provide healthy benefits. Science and spirituality can go hand in hand.

edit on 4-10-2012 by DelayedChristmas because: (no reason given)

Yeah, I agree with you on this.

Originally posted by milominderbinder

Originally posted by promenion
Just my .02 cents. Every Atheist I have ever met always and I mean always brings up Christianity and insults it, is always offensive and very rude, but somehow is afraid to insult Islam, wonder why?

Well...lets fix that problem for you. I'm an atheist and I think christians and muslims are equally insane.
There. Now you've met an atheist who doesn't discriminate against you as you claim they do.

Happy now?

By met, I mean "face to face" that insulted Islam, they are always afraid, sure they'll say something about Islam but always with Christianity.

By the way, because of religion as in Christianity we have morals and values, 10 commandments which showed humans how to live peacefully. Those that murder and commit crimes in the name of God are not Christians. And by Christian I don't mean "all Christians" because right now there is so many freaking factions as in religions "based" on the real original Orthodox Christianity that its just sick, all for the money.

Anyway, you don't have to believe in anything, just live by 10 Commandments and there all is to it. If someone wants to go to Church or believe its' their life's, your not paying their bills or supporting them in anyway. Peace.

reply to post by promenion


Morals are imposed by society and not religion

You don't need a belief in god to act morally and not kill/hurt people...

Originally posted by MrXYZ
reply to post by promenion

 

Morals are imposed by society and not religion

You don't need a belief in god to act morally and not kill/hurt people...

I don't think you understood what I wrote, Morals & Values are because of religion. And how to live and rules you got from 10 Commandments=Religion.

reply to post by promenion


The Ten Commandments came from Moses, right?

Moses was a murderer, who killed an Egyptian soldier. He knew it was wrong and the Egyptians knew it was wrong, and he was on the run.

The Code of Hannarabi, the biblical text which gives us "an eye for and eye," along with the flood mythology, came out of ancient Babylon, which pre-dated Moses.

So, between the Egyptians and the Babylonians, we know that laws, values and morals existed before biblical times. Christianity nor Judaism hold the mortgage on ethics, morals or values. The society in which one belongs to does.

Originally posted by promenion

Originally posted by MrXYZ
reply to post by promenion

 

Morals are imposed by society and not religion

You don't need a belief in god to act morally and not kill/hurt people...

I don't think you understood what I wrote, Morals & Values are because of religion. And how to live and rules you got from 10 Commandments=Religion.

edit on 20-10-2012 by promenion because: (no reason given)

They might have had an influence, but given that people don't live according to them I'd say it's safe to say they aren't the driving force

Society (and changes in society) are the driving force.

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by promenion

 

The Ten Commandments came from Moses, right?

Moses was a murderer, who killed an Egyptian soldier. He knew it was wrong and the Egyptians knew it was wrong, and he was on the run.

The Code of Hannarabi, the biblical text which gives us "an eye for and eye," along with the flood mythology, came out of ancient Babylon, which pre-dated Moses.

So, between the Egyptians and the Babylonians, we know that laws, values and morals existed before biblical times. Christianity nor Judaism hold the mortgage on ethics, morals or values. The society in which one belongs to does.

The way society is and behaves is due to religion, in Christian (majority) countries you don't see beheadings and pouring acid on women's faces or suicide bombers blowing up children, in Islamic countries its part of their society, which Was shaped according to their religion-Islam.

Because of Christianity, because of 10 Commandments given to Moses, we have rules, we known those rules are good, their not evil, they don't tell us to kill or pour acid on women, they are simple rules to live by. Religion is great, Jesus spoke the truth, people are wrong. And I don't expect anyone to believe in anything, but if everyone lived by the 10 Commandments we'd have a much safer and peaceful world.

If believing in nothing as Atheists do, or that human beings are just a piece of meat, then why care if they die, go hungry, starve, why care about war where millions of pieces of meat get slaughtered. Stalin, an atheist, murdered millions of people, more of his own people than anyone on Earth, burned churches, killed priests, sent women and children to Gulags. You see, being an Atheist or having one as a leader is very dangerous because he has nothing to live for or fear of being wrong and or murdering millions of people, why care about people? do I care how bacon feels?

God gave humanity free will, its your responsibility to live your life, to experience hard times, to fight for what you believe is right, to pursue happiness. Jesus was right and told the truth.

reply to post by promenion


You're a great example of someone who I'm glad actually does believe in a space ghost (a god), as it seems your space ghosts rules are all that's keeping you from killing and raping.

Originally posted by promenion

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by promenion

 

The Ten Commandments came from Moses, right?

Moses was a murderer, who killed an Egyptian soldier. He knew it was wrong and the Egyptians knew it was wrong, and he was on the run.

The Code of Hannarabi, the biblical text which gives us "an eye for and eye," along with the flood mythology, came out of ancient Babylon, which pre-dated Moses.

So, between the Egyptians and the Babylonians, we know that laws, values and morals existed before biblical times. Christianity nor Judaism hold the mortgage on ethics, morals or values. The society in which one belongs to does.

The way society is and behaves is due to religion, in Christian (majority) countries you don't see beheadings and pouring acid on women's faces or suicide bombers blowing up children, in Islamic countries its part of their society, which Was shaped according to their religion-Islam.

Because of Christianity, because of 10 Commandments given to Moses, we have rules, we known those rules are good, their not evil, they don't tell us to kill or pour acid on women, they are simple rules to live by. Religion is great, Jesus spoke the truth, people are wrong. And I don't expect anyone to believe in anything, but if everyone lived by the 10 Commandments we'd have a much safer and peaceful world.

The Ten Commandments instill property rights.

Native American Quotes About Land Ownership
Print
"Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children." --Ancient Indian Proverb

"The American Indian is of the soil, whether it be the region of forests, plains, pueblos, or mesas. He fits into the landscape, for the hand that fashioned the continent also fashioned the man for his surroundings. He once grew as naturally as the wild sunflowers, he belongs just as the buffalo belonged..." --Luther Standing Bear

"What is this you call property? It cannot be the earth, for the land is our mother, nourishing all her children, beasts, birds, fish and all men. The woods, the streams, everything on it belongs to everybody and is for the use of all. How can one man say it belongs only to him?" -Massasoit

"One does not sell the land people walk on." --Crazy Horse
www.adl.org...

The Ten Commandment also taught that women were property, equal to animals. Is this your ideal too?

If believing in nothing as Atheists do, or that human beings are just a piece of meat, then why care if they die, go hungry, starve, why care about war where millions of pieces of meat get slaughtered. Stalin, an atheist, murdered millions of people, more of his own people than anyone on Earth, burned churches, killed priests, sent women and children to Gulags. You see, being an Atheist or having one as a leader is very dangerous because he has nothing to live for or fear of being wrong and or murdering millions of people, why care about people? do I care how bacon feels?

Equating all atheists to Stalin is like equating all Christians to the perpetrators of the Spanish Inquisition.

God gave humanity free will, its your responsibility to live your life, to experience hard times, to fight for what you believe is right, to pursue happiness. Jesus was right and told the truth.

The Ten Commandments deny your free will and your freedom to worship, to question, to teach or to learn. The Ten Commandments are evil!