Are there bigger HYPOCRITES on this planet then atheists???

Originally posted by Philodemus
reply to post by truejew

 

jesus-messiah.com...

Yes, I know of the errors of Daniel Seagraves. However, his explanation of Elohim is correct.

Originally posted by milominderbinder

By definition, a "trinitarian" MUST believe in the Triune God...that's what the word "trinitarian" means. If you spoke to anybody who believes otherwise...then you spoke to a "nontrinitarian".

Thanks for illustrating that you don't understand LITERALLY the first major precept of the judeo-christian tradition.

I love it when people are big "believers" of their religion and yet have not ever read their own religious texts.

Actually, many of the trinitarian "church fathers" were polytheists also.

Originally posted by borntowatch

To be a Christian one must accept the Trinity,

Do you have Scripture for that?

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000



Indeed, both JW's and Mormons are cults.

I think the word "cult" gets thrown around too easily by trinitarians. I think it should be reserved for groups where people actually get hurt by, like Jim Jones' church and not every group you disagree with on doctrine.

Originally posted by truejew

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000



Indeed, both JW's and Mormons are cults.

I think the word "cult" gets thrown around too easily by trinitarians. I think it should be reserved for groups where people actually get hurt by, like Jim Jones' church and not every group you disagree with on doctrine.

Christianity is defined by the Trinity

The Trinity is an essential doctrine of mainstream Christianity. ... nor that each member of the Trinity is one-third of an infinite God; Trinity is defined as one God in. en.wikipedia.org...

You can suggest otherwise, and as for cults

What you think is relevant only to you. I dont think it is used easily enough.
I would think your beliefs stem from a cult, care to mention the church you belong to?

Originally posted by borntowatch

Christianity is defined by the Trinity

If that was true, Jesus and the Apostles would have taught it.

reply to post by Akragon

Jesus didn't ever claim to be God.... Not once...

He claimed the titles and the name, so yes he did. Who do you think the "Good Shepherd" is? The Good Shepherd goes all the way back to the OT. He is the God of the OT, he is who created us.

reply to post by truejew

Corinthians 13:14 "The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit, be with you all."

If being a Christian did not inherently involve all three, why on earth would a Christian say this? And since the speaker of this line was not struck immediately afterward with the wrath of "God", there must be truth in it.

reply to post by Akragon


Jesus never claimed to be "God"? Then explain this to me:

Isaiah 45:21-23 "Declare and set forth your case; indeed, let them consult together. Who has announced this from of old? Who has long since declared it? Is it not I, Yehovah? And there is no other Elohim besides Me, a righteous El and a Savior; there is none except Me. Turn to Me, and be saved, all the ends of the earth; for I am El, and there is no other. I have sworn by Myself, the word has gone forth from My mouth in righteousness and will not turn back, that to Me every knee will bow, every tongue will swear allegiance."

Or this - had it been a statement made in error, then surely he would have been corrected?

John 1:1-3 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and the Word was God. This One was in the beginning with God. All things came into being by Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being."

Even "God" says that he and Jesus were identical:

Isaiah 43:10-11 "‘You are My witnesses,’ declares Yehovah, ‘And My servant whom I have chosen, in order that you may know and believe Me, and understand that I am He. Before Me there was no El formed, and there will be none after Me. I, even I, am Yehovah; and there is no Savior besides Me.’"

There is no savior besides him, so any savior that appeared on earth was the same as him. Even if Jesus did not claim to be "God", "God" himself claimed Jesus as an incarnation of himself.

Originally posted by truejew

Originally posted by borntowatch

Christianity is defined by the Trinity

If that was true, Jesus and the Apostles would have taught it.

Ahhm Jesus died because because he taught that, thats why the Jews killed Him, accused of blasphemy, miss that bit at sunday school did you?
Shouldnt you be out knocking on doors

reply to post by borntowatch


Actually, he was killed because he claimed to be "God".

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by truejew

 

Corinthians 13:14 "The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit, be with you all."

If being a Christian did not inherently involve all three, why on earth would a Christian say this? And since the speaker of this line was not struck immediately afterward with the wrath of "God", there must be truth in it.

Are you trying to say that Jesus is not God?

Originally posted by borntowatch

Originally posted by truejew

Originally posted by borntowatch

Christianity is defined by the Trinity

If that was true, Jesus and the Apostles would have taught it.

Ahhm Jesus died because because he taught that, thats why the Jews killed Him, accused of blasphemy, miss that bit at sunday school did you?
Shouldnt you be out knocking on doors

edit on 11-10-2012 by borntowatch because: (no reason given)

Jesus died because of claiming to be God.

Originally posted by truejew

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by truejew

 

Corinthians 13:14 "The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit, be with you all."

If being a Christian did not inherently involve all three, why on earth would a Christian say this? And since the speaker of this line was not struck immediately afterward with the wrath of "God", there must be truth in it.

Are you trying to say that Jesus is not God?

Where did I even begin to imply that? My personal views on that tangent are currently irrelevant. Now answer the question in my quoted post - the question that's actually pertinent, since you want to call all of American Christianity false while claiming your Christianity is still perfect.

reply to post by borntowatch

31 Again his Jewish opponents picked up stones to stone him, 32 but Jesus said to them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?”

33 “We are not stoning you for any good work,” they replied...., “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.”


(The Jews can see it but you cant)

Keep reading... These are the opinions of men, who did not know what he was saying... And by the way, saying you're "the son of God" is making yourself God in Judaism... The claim that he said "I AM GOD" doesn't exist anywhere....

34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I have said you are “gods”’? 35 If he called them ‘gods,’ to whom the word of God came—and Scripture cannot be set aside— 36 what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world?
Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’?

See the question mark?

Hes questioning them because HE DID NOT claim to be God, only the son of God.... Yes i know christians say that is the same thing... but its not

(Fairly clear, I think, deny it if you like but I wont)

Whos asking you to?

Believe whatever you like.... matters not to me

but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptise you with the Holy Spirit and fire. His (Jesus) winnowing fan is in His hand, and He (Jesus) will thoroughly clean out His threshing floor, and gather His wheat into the barn; but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.”
– Matthew 3:1-1

You must have a different John 10

Apparently i do.... my book says

In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judaea,
Mattthew 3:1

Perhaps you meant Mat 3:11 though

Originally posted by Akragon

Believe whatever you like.... matters not to me

This is how the intelligent world feels about religious fanatics. (Yes christians, you are included in this group)

reply to post by AfterInfinity

Jesus never claimed to be "God"? Then explain this to me:

Sure...

Isaiah 45:21-23 "Declare and set forth your case; indeed, let them consult together. Who has announced this from of old? Who has long since declared it? Is it not I, Yehovah? And there is no other Elohim besides Me, a righteous El and a Savior; there is none except Me. Turn to Me, and be saved, all the ends of the earth; for I am El, and there is no other. I have sworn by Myself, the word has gone forth from My mouth in righteousness and will not turn back, that to Me every knee will bow, every tongue will swear allegiance."

Written by Isaiah... Jesus didn't say that....

Or this - had it been a statement made in error, then surely he would have been corrected?

John 1:1-3 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and the Word was God. This One was in the beginning with God. All things came into being by Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being."

Written by john.... Jesus didn't say that....

Even "God" says that he and Jesus were identical:

God said what?

John isn't God... Neither is Isaiah....

Isaiah 43:10-11 "‘You are My witnesses,’ declares Yehovah, ‘And My servant whom I have chosen, in order that you may know and believe Me, and understand that I am He. Before Me there was no El formed, and there will be none after Me. I, even I, am Yehovah; and there is no Savior besides Me.’"


There is no savior besides him, so any savior that appeared on earth was the same as him. Even if Jesus did not claim to be "God", "God" himself claimed Jesus as an incarnation of himself.

So you are of the opinion that God wrote the bible?

Or Isaiah and john are God?

Either way... IF you're going to read the bible you should really find out who is speaking whilest you read....

reply to post by Akragon


Nah, I'm just wondering why, if there is a "God" such as is written about in the Bible, would he allow these scriptures to be included if they are false?

I'm looking at it from a neutral point of view, by the way.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


Of course he would... its just a book... but wouldn't a good father want us to learn for ourselves?

Keep in mind the true God would still want to keep his message in tact, which it is... What would be the point of sending his son to die, then losing the original message he wanted for us?

You just have to know where to look... I personally believe his word is hidden for a good reason...

It just find it amazing that many Christians have no idea where its located

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by truejew

 

Where did I even begin to imply that? My personal views on that tangent are currently irrelevant. Now answer the question in my quoted post - the question that's actually pertinent, since you want to call all of American Christianity false while claiming your Christianity is still perfect.

edit on 11-10-2012 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)

If the quoted verse creates the problem that you are claiming it does, it would also mean Jesus and the Holy Spirit are not God.

"6One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all." (Ephesians 4:6-7 KJV)

It would also mean the above Scripture is saying God and the Father are separate persons.