Are there bigger HYPOCRITES on this planet then atheists???

reply to post by lonewolf19792000


Water consecration was invented by the Sumerians. Making water holy was the step that came before bathing the young and old in holy water.

Every piece of symbology was old when Christianity was young. Do you really want me to prove it?

reply to post by ~Vixen~

The christians are the ones demanding that everyone else play by their rules and live by the standards set forth in their bible.

That book isn't for nonbelievers. If you choose not to accept what is written then it's on you, not me or anyone else. We don't make the rules God does, so if anyone is demanding anything it'd be him.

If you want others to follow those rules, you sure as hell should be willing to live by them yourself. Anything short of that would be outright hypocrisy.

It's not necessarily about living by a system of physical rules or laws it's about living by Spirit and Truth. Sure you can try to live by all those rules and laws and at some point because you're flawed you will fail, sometimes you will fail alot even in one day. This is why we needed a Savior. A perfect law condemns an imperfect people, this is why we needed salvation by grace. God is the only one who can keep his own laws flawlessly, so he must do so for us all. That being said i have no issue against practicing what you preach. Be merciful and forgive and if you have an issue of morality against what someone does, remove yourself from it and turn and walk away.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by lonewolf19792000

 

Water consecration was invented by the Sumerians. Making water holy was the step that came before bathing the young and old in holy water.

Every piece of symbology was old when Christianity was young. Do you really want me to prove it?

Catholics make holy water. There's no such thing as a holy object, that is idolatry. The only thing Holy in the universe is God and where he stands.

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
reply to post by truejew

 

Protestant communion is symbology for taking Christ who is our bread of life into ourselves and "consuming" the Word spiritually, not the transubstantiation of Roman Catholicism which is they are literally eating him, not consuming his teachings.

I did not say that Protestant communion is the same as catholic communion. I said both are pagan in origin. True Christian communion takes place on Passover, not New Year's Eve or any other day.

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000

Sumerians didn't corrupt the jewish baptism. Here's a little history lesson for you. Sumerians existed 2000 years before Abraham, and roughly 2400 years before Moses. Jews didn't even baptise until much much later and it was the Essenes who began that.

Did the Sumerians baptize before Noah and the flood? Noah was saved by water.

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000

Matthew 28:18-20

18 And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Amen.

That version of Matthew 28:18-20 is a fraud.

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000

Without a Trinity you're going to have a tough time explaining how Jesus prayed to himself in the garden of Gathsemane "not My will, but Your will be done". 2 wills denote 2 distinct individuals. You're also going to have a tough time explaining why he said "Eloi Eloi, lama sabacthani?" or "my God my God, why have you forsaken me?"

You seem to not understand that Jesus was a man. Do you pray to God and have a will separate from the Father? The trinity explanation makes separate gods. The true Churches explanation makes a separation between man and God.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by truejew

 

Sumeria preceded Christianity. Are you saying they were time travelers?

Sumeria did not precede God's people.

reply to post by truejew


Whoa, wait. I said Christianity, not God's people. I'm presuming you are referring to Adam and Eve, and I'm not even touching that piece in this discussion. I'm talking about the roots of Christianity as it exists today; Adam and Eve are not involved, because they did not create or introduce Christianity.

Therefore, Sumeria DID precede Jesus, and thus, Christianity.

But your entire argument tells me that Christianity, as largely practiced in America today, IS false. You have all but said so yourself. But I still see no reason to put stock in your brand either. You've simply reduced it to a vegetarian's version, which probably still possesses the core elements of Christianity, unless I'm mistaken.

Trouble is, those core elements are also pagan. The trinity (as I have proven before) the resurrection of Jesus (I have not proven this, but I can if I must) and the virgin birth (ditto).

Originally posted by truejew

Originally posted by milominderbinder

Sorry dude...you can't pretend that Christians haven't been brutally murdering and torturing on every continent of the planet save Antarctica just by saying that the Christians who partake of these activities aren't "real".

I'm not pretending. The fruit of the Holy Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, and temperance. Those who are violent do not have the Holy Spirit and are not Christians.

Originally posted by milominderbinder

They sure as hell think they are "real" christians.

They might also think they are one of the two witnesses too, but what they think does not make it true.

OK...so then is Islam the "religion of peace" in your opinion? After all...the Islamic clerics keep saying that "real Muslims" aren't barbarians. What about Satan worshippers? Aton LeVay maintains that "real Satanists" don't engage in "evil" activities and that they are more kind, generous, and humanitarian than any other religion on earth. Is Satanism all sunshine, joy, and rainbows too just because one guy says that anybody who actually sacrifices people or animals to Satan isn't a "real" Satanist?

LOL....

You can tell yourself whatever you want...but simply saying that the the hundreds of millions (perhaps billions?) of people tortured, enslaved, oppressed, and brutally murdered over the last 2000 doesn't count because those people weren't "real" christians doesn't hold water. You're not convincing me nor any of the other rational people on planet earth...or any junior high debate team in the country, for that matter.

Originally posted by borntowatch

Originally posted by Philodemus
reply to post by borntowatch

 

Sorry you're not perfect? Man, by what I've seen in this thread you're not even trying.

Why would I care that you might be making atheists look silly? What difference does it make here on this site, in this forum? The most brilliant minds in Christianity fail time after time to make them look “silly”, so what hope do you have? I am neither Christian or atheist. Subsequently, I do not have invested interests in either side. You of all people, with your 11th grade vocabulary, your infantile name calling, and your “stick and stones” locution are far, far away from making me shake or worry.

This whole thread is an alarming demonstration of your humble wit. There is nothing wrong with being less dowered in the domain of intelligence, as long as you have at least a bantam tittle remaining that might tell you to keep your fat ignorant mouth shut. I've decided to go ad homonym on you for one reason and one reason alone. You have no point. There is nothing to contend or even discuss. Not a single shred of anything that might resemble a trenchant topic. You have continued to breath into this thread what ever flaccid resemblance of life there is, by pettifoggery, opprobrious speech, and the deconstruction of the character and value of those who come to share there opinions. If you don't want to hear their sentiments, then why would you have authored such a thread in the first place?

As for asserting to be even remotely in vicinity of the company of the men you mentioned you are way, way off kilter. Paul, a man of substantially more fortitude than you, actually had something worth while to share and accordant to your dogma, was an elysian of God. Are you speaking for God?

Tertullian was most likely a disciplined lawyer. He was highly learned, a true scholar who wrote several books in languages other than his native tongue. He took his life in his own hands by advocating the views he held. Are you any of those things? What jeopardy are you in, with namelessness of the internet, as you turn over the “change tables” of the Pharisees at the temple?

Luther was the ultimate in adrenaline junkies of the early Protestant church. What he did at Worms was a derisory display of strength and bravery. His outspoken ministry of defiant averment against the Roman Catholic Church, was the quintessential benchmark for the passion that one should put into their beliefs. But you sir, are no Martin Luther. By the way, the little remark after his name instructing me to “have a read” is far more scurrilous and undignified then any authentic Christian should be.

One thing that all of these men had in common in respects to their often ardent discourse, was that all of them saved their most spinous words and admonishments for fellow Christians and for those who claimed to be doing the work of God. The place that those postures most aptly belong. Malice and intellectual bile doesn't often win over even one person from the crowd of the resistance. Or do you not care about winning anyone over to your “side”? If not, ask yourself why? What ministry is it that you are doing, then?

You are a fool and an ignorant, uneducated one at that. You are the worst kind of fool. One with a cause fought with his banal tongue.

I hope one day that you learn not to pick fights with giants. The truly saddening thing about my response is that I actually, like an ignoramus, put effort into disassembling your piggish mind. It's all a waste, save someone with half a brain venture by and read

edit on 6-10-2012 by Philodemus because: (no reason given)

I got through a third of that, that was enough
I dont care, ignore me I will ignore you

And there you have it folks. Case in point. It's a neat trick when someone can fill in their own grave. Aaaaand unsubscribe.....

reply to post by Philodemus

You of all people, with your 11th grade vocabulary,

the deconstruction of the character and value of those who come to share there opinions.

There opinions. "There", as opposed to "their". Sorry, had to point it out. You can spell 'opprobrious' correctly but not 'their'.

Other than that, nice speech. I think you've made your point. There really is nothing to be gained for either side by pointing fingers and calling names. I wish that theists and atheists could band together just for the sake of the world...it doesn't matter where we came from, we still rely on this rock for life, and if we don't take care of it, we won't have a future either way.

reply to post by milominderbinder


Any religion that you can get kicked out of or is exclusive can not be a religion of peace.

Of the major religions out there, Buddhism is closest to peaceful, but a religion is only as peaceful as it's people are. Religion is inherently NOT peaceful.

Originally posted by truejew
You would prefer I lump Catholics and other pagan based false Christian religions with paganism instead of using the term Pagananity?

I could care less who you "lump" with who...I would just wish you do the thread the courtesy of using real words that actually exist instead of just making up terminology in your head.

The trinity is polytheistic.

WOW!!

You don't even have the most rudimentary understanding of the judeo-christian tradition...do you? I mean...not even a little tiny bit. No wonder you believe such nonsense...you either have not ever read the bible or if you have...you have not understood it. Here are a whole host of definitions for the term "Holy Trinity" from secular and religious traditions alike.

Dictionary.com
holy trinity
noun
the union of the Father and Son and Holy Ghost in one Godhead [syn: Trinity]
Link: dictionary.reference.com...

Wikipedia
"The Christian doctrine of the Trinity defines God as three divine persons (Greek: ὑποστάσεις):[1] the Father, the Son (Jesus Christ), and the Holy Spirit. The three persons are distinct yet coexist in unity, and are co-equal, co-eternal and consubstantial (Greek: ὁμοούσιοι). Put another way, the three persons of the Trinity are of one being (Greek: οὐσία).[2] The Trinity is considered to be a mystery of Christian faith.[3]

According to this doctrine, there is only one God in three persons. Each person is God, whole and entire. They are distinct from one another in their relations of origin: as the Fourth Lateran Council declared, "it is the Father who generates, the Son who is begotten, and the Holy Spirit who proceeds". While distinct in their relations with one another, they are one in all else. The whole work of creation and grace is a single operation common to all three divine persons, who at the same time operate according to their unique properties, so that all things are from the Father, through the Son and in the Holy Spirit."
Link: en.wikipedia.org...

Catholic Encyclopedia
The Trinity is the term employed to signify the central doctrine of the Christian religion — the truth that in the unity of the Godhead there are Three Persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, these Three Persons being truly distinct one from another.

Thus, in the words of the Athanasian Creed: "the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God, and yet there are not three Gods but one God." In this Trinity of Persons the Son is begotten of the Father by an eternal generation, and the Holy Spirit proceeds by an eternal procession from the Father and the Son. Yet, notwithstanding this difference as to origin, the Persons are co-eternal and co-equal: all alike are uncreated and omnipotent. This, the Church teaches, is the revelation regarding God's nature which Jesus Christ, the Son of God, came upon earth to deliver to the world: and which she proposes to man as the foundation of her whole dogmatic system.
Link: www.newadvent.org...

New World Encyclopedia
"The Trinity in Christianity is a theological doctrine developed to explain the relationship of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit described in the Bible. The particular question the doctrine addresses is: If the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God, then how can we say that there is only one God and not three Gods? The doctrine, following Tertullian and the subsequent approval of his formulation by the Church, affirms that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are not identical with one another nor separate from one another but simply three distinct persons (personae) of one substance (una substantia). It may be rather difficult to comprehend it by reason, but it has since been regarded as a central doctrine and litmus test of the Christian faith. Some passages from the Hebrew Bible have been cited as supporting the Trinity. It calls God "Elohim," which is a plural noun in Hebrew (Deuteronomy 6:4) and occasionally employs plural pronouns to refer to God: "Let us make man in our image" (Genesis 1:26). It uses threefold liturgical formulas (Numbers 6:24-26; Isaiah 6:3). Also, it refers to God, his Word, and his Spirit together as co-workers (Psalms 33:6; etc.).."
Link: www.newworldencyclopedia.org...

In fact...out of the 41,000 different denominations of Christianity there are only around 14 or so that are nontrinitarian. ( the Christadelphians, Christian Scientists, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormons), Dawn Bible Students, Friends General Conference, Iglesia ni Cristo, Jehovah's Witnesses, La Luz del Mundo, Living Church of God, Oneness Pentecostals, Members Church of God International, Unitarian Universalist Christians and the United Church of God).

You should read more books.

reply to post by milominderbinder


If only they knew where the trinity REALLY comes from...

God = Mind

Jesus = Body

Ghost = Soul

Why do you think so many different faiths have three deities or three representations? Because it all trickles back down to us.

Originally posted by grahag
reply to post by milominderbinder

 

Any religion that you can get kicked out of or is exclusive can not be a religion of peace.

Of the major religions out there, Buddhism is closest to peaceful, but a religion is only as peaceful as it's people are. Religion is inherently NOT peaceful.

I agree with you on that one.

Buddhism is the ONLY major religion in the history of the world (tribal religions excluded) that has shown a CONSISTENT effort to resist being hijacked for warfare. When was the last time you saw a Catholic Bishop , TV evangelist, Rabbi, or Islamic Cleric torch themselves to protest a war? Can anybody name a single war in history in which the Buddhists went out to violently subjugate or convert the "non-believers" so they could all go to Nirvana together?

The closest anybody can really get is that some Japanese Buddhists were conscripted to fight in WWII by the secular government...but that's a FAR CRY from a religious war.

reply to post by truejew

I did not say that Protestant communion is the same as catholic communion. I said both are pagan in origin. True Christian communion takes place on Passover, not New Year's Eve or any other day.

Jesus didn't give a specific day to do communion man, all he said was when we do it, to do it in remembrance of him. The Passover was fulfilled at Calvary, and Shavuot was fulfilled 50 days later, just the way it is mirrored by mosiac judaism in Exodus. Christianity is not about fleshly laws it is about obeying the Spirit of Christ and worshipping him in truth and in spirit.

It got to the point God hated the jews feastdays because it was fleshly tradition of men, when all he wanted was for them to obey his Voice.

Amos 5:21-24

21 “I hate, I despise your feast days,
And I do not savor your sacred assemblies.
22 Though you offer Me burnt offerings and your grain offerings,
I will not accept them,
Nor will I regard your fattened peace offerings.
23 Take away from Me the noise of your songs,
For I will not hear the melody of your stringed instruments.
24 But let justice run down like water,
And righteousness like a mighty stream.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


Nice catch! lol

I also had a finger-fart on, "ad hominem". And now that I've re-read it, I see several things I could have improved grammatically.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by lonewolf19792000

 

Water consecration was invented by the Sumerians. Making water holy was the step that came before bathing the young and old in holy water.

Every piece of symbology was old when Christianity was young. Do you really want me to prove it?

Yeah I would like some proof, where is holy water in the bible, where are crosses called holy, where are these Christian symbols described in the bible that Christians are to revere, you talk of.

What is this holy water thing and its relationship to Christianity you speal of first?
Thanks, I am interested

Originally posted by milominderbinder

Originally posted by grahag
reply to post by milominderbinder

 

Any religion that you can get kicked out of or is exclusive can not be a religion of peace.

Of the major religions out there, Buddhism is closest to peaceful, but a religion is only as peaceful as it's people are. Religion is inherently NOT peaceful.

I agree with you on that one.

Buddhism is the ONLY major religion in the history of the world (tribal religions excluded) that has shown a CONSISTENT effort to resist being hijacked for warfare. When was the last time you saw a Catholic Bishop , TV evangelist, Rabbi, or Islamic Cleric torch themselves to protest a war? Can anybody name a single war in history in which the Buddhists went out to violently subjugate or convert the "non-believers" so they could all go to Nirvana together?

The closest anybody can really get is that some Japanese Buddhists were conscripted to fight in WWII by the secular government...but that's a FAR CRY from a religious war.

Yeah I can
Buddhists are nasty and violent terryorisms.com...

Dont let the truth get in the way of a good lie.

Do you read
Buddhist Warfare
By Michael Jerryson, Mark Juergensmeyer

Originally posted by Philodemus

Originally posted by borntowatch

Originally posted by Philodemus
reply to post by borntowatch

 

Sorry you're not perfect? Man, by what I've seen in this thread you're not even trying.

Why would I care that you might be making atheists look silly? What difference does it make here on this site, in this forum? The most brilliant minds in Christianity fail time after time to make them look “silly”, so what hope do you have? I am neither Christian or atheist. Subsequently, I do not have invested interests in either side. You of all people, with your 11th grade vocabulary, your infantile name calling, and your “stick and stones” locution are far, far away from making me shake or worry.

This whole thread is an alarming demonstration of your humble wit. There is nothing wrong with being less dowered in the domain of intelligence, as long as you have at least a bantam tittle remaining that might tell you to keep your fat ignorant mouth shut. I've decided to go ad homonym on you for one reason and one reason alone. You have no point. There is nothing to contend or even discuss. Not a single shred of anything that might resemble a trenchant topic. You have continued to breath into this thread what ever flaccid resemblance of life there is, by pettifoggery, opprobrious speech, and the deconstruction of the character and value of those who come to share there opinions. If you don't want to hear their sentiments, then why would you have authored such a thread in the first place?

As for asserting to be even remotely in vicinity of the company of the men you mentioned you are way, way off kilter. Paul, a man of substantially more fortitude than you, actually had something worth while to share and accordant to your dogma, was an elysian of God. Are you speaking for God?

Tertullian was most likely a disciplined lawyer. He was highly learned, a true scholar who wrote several books in languages other than his native tongue. He took his life in his own hands by advocating the views he held. Are you any of those things? What jeopardy are you in, with namelessness of the internet, as you turn over the “change tables” of the Pharisees at the temple?

Luther was the ultimate in adrenaline junkies of the early Protestant church. What he did at Worms was a derisory display of strength and bravery. His outspoken ministry of defiant averment against the Roman Catholic Church, was the quintessential benchmark for the passion that one should put into their beliefs. But you sir, are no Martin Luther. By the way, the little remark after his name instructing me to “have a read” is far more scurrilous and undignified then any authentic Christian should be.

One thing that all of these men had in common in respects to their often ardent discourse, was that all of them saved their most spinous words and admonishments for fellow Christians and for those who claimed to be doing the work of God. The place that those postures most aptly belong. Malice and intellectual bile doesn't often win over even one person from the crowd of the resistance. Or do you not care about winning anyone over to your “side”? If not, ask yourself why? What ministry is it that you are doing, then?

You are a fool and an ignorant, uneducated one at that. You are the worst kind of fool. One with a cause fought with his banal tongue.

I hope one day that you learn not to pick fights with giants. The truly saddening thing about my response is that I actually, like an ignoramus, put effort into disassembling your piggish mind. It's all a waste, save someone with half a brain venture by and read

edit on 6-10-2012 by Philodemus because: (no reason given)

I got through a third of that, that was enough
I dont care, ignore me I will ignore you

And there you have it folks. Case in point. It's a neat trick when someone can fill in their own grave. Aaaaand unsubscribe.....

edit on 9-10-2012 by Philodemus because: (no reason given)

AAAaaand thankyou

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by truejew

 

Whoa, wait. I said Christianity, not God's people. I'm presuming you are referring to Adam and Eve, and I'm not even touching that piece in this discussion. I'm talking about the roots of Christianity as it exists today; Adam and Eve are not involved, because they did not create or introduce Christianity.

True Christianity is descended from true Judaism which is descended from Abraham who is descended from Adam and Eve. These are God's people and is where baptism has it's origin.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity

Therefore, Sumeria DID precede Jesus, and thus, Christianity.

Jesus is God. Nothing precedes God. Christianity is the continuation of the true Jewish faith.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity

You've simply reduced it to a vegetarian's version, which probably still possesses the core elements of Christianity, unless I'm mistaken.

I have reduced nothing. I just don't follow the additions of the pagans.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity

Trouble is, those core elements are also pagan. The trinity (as I have proven before)

The trinity is pagan. The true Church is monotheistic as I have said several times.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity

the resurrection of Jesus (I have not proven this, but I can if I must) and the virgin birth (ditto).

The coming of Messieh including the resurrection and virgin birth was all told about by prophecy long before they actually happened. Pagans got their ideas from those prophecies.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity

What do the rest of the Christians on ATS have to say about this? Do they agree?

Christians believe Jehovah witnesses are a cult