What Muslims think about mocking prophets

reply to post by mideast


i just love the contradiction from the so called religion of peace. you call for others to respect your religion, but yet have zero tolerance for everyone else's religion or lack of one. perhaps the message needs to get out to the mid east that if one expects to have others respect your religion that first THEY must start to respect everyone else's religious beliefs. first off you would need to publicly denounce, and scrap that so called tax on the other supposedly related religions. publicly state you will not harm even those other religions that do not stem from the Abrahamic faiths. and of course follow through with it.

open the whole of the lands your religion rules to ALL OTHER RELIGIOUS BELIEFS, without fear of harm. and severely punish any who may strike out at other faiths. publicly denounce the need for death for any who may fall away from Islam, and of course follow through.

get rid of those ridiculous rules of dress and again punish any who attack someone because they may not be dressed as they feel is appropriate. as well as letting females go, and do whatever they wish without fear with no "male protectors". in a case of rape no stoning or recrimination on the victims, but instead punish the offenders.

any who call for jihad at the least jailed, and those responsible for creating/training things like suicide bombers publicly executed.

RENOUNCE THE CONCEPT OF THE RULE OF ISLAM ACROSS THE WORLD.

let people think and SAY what they want without fear of harm or imprisonment. no mater if they are in an Islamic country.

let others into your so called holy places, (who knows may even get some converts that way ). such as the temple mount and meca. as well as any others, regardless of a person's religious beliefs. (i only know one non Muslim who has walked in meca).

maybe then people may start to respect what many see now as the religion of hatred and intolerance of others. actually BECOME the religion of peace you keep saying you are. police your own murderous element and keep them from harming others, words of condemnation are not enough, action is needed. basically BECOME TOLERANT OF EVERYONE ELSE'S BELIEFS. through actions, words are not enough.

reply to post by generik


Are you actually blaming this one poster for everything from terrorist attacks to Middle Eastern culture?
I am pretty sure he or she never claimed to be all Muslims, let alone the worst of the fringe.

One of the basic differences between the Islamic faith and 'western' society are the opposite views each has of freedom of speech and even thought.

Islam is an all encompassing belief system that preaches, some interpretations even demand, adherence to a complete lifestyle.
It governs what can be eat - sometimes even when - what to wear, what to believe and think etc, how to interact with those of other religions - essentially almost every aspect of it's society.
It accepts no criticism and one of it's most basic tenets is the ultimate imposition of Sharia and a worldwide Caliphate - by any means possible.

Despite the best attempts of our politicians and their puppet masters there still remains an inherent belief and faith here in 'the west' in the rights of individuals and freedom of thought, speech and faith - it is the very antithesis of Islam.

I recognise that is a very simplistic and possibly even naive assessment and that nothing is so black and white.

But I think it's fair to say that many within Islam simply cannot even begin to understand the concept of freedom of speech and as a result find many aspects of 'western' society completely alien to their whole mindset - the sometimes lack of reverence for their 'prophet' is but one example of this.

By the same token many here in 'the west' find the willingness to become completely subservient to a beleif system and the level of outrage over trivialities like a cartoon as totally baffling and mystifying.
In addition some within 'the west' find Islam's reluctance to accept things like 'democracy' and 'free speech' as equally alien.

Is it any wonder that conflict arises when such diametrically opposing viewpoints and beliefs interact with each other?

Personally I think it's important that we all try to treat people with respect and courtesy, (I assure you I fail in this as much as anyone else at times), - but abstract concepts like thoughts, belief systems, images, art, etc cannot be regulated or restricted in such a manner that the OP and Ahmadinejad have suggested.

In the past some people have accused me of being anti-Muslim or of having an anti-Muslim agenda - I repute that - but I have to be honest and say that I do have a problem with Islam.
Sadly far too many people cannot or will not differentiate between the two.

For the record, I have a bit of a problem with all organised religions but I think that's probably best left for another time and place.

Originally posted by mideast
This is simple.

Wahhabis are not Muslims

First of all, you just replied to my statement about bad Muslims, not Wahabi. Are you going to claim bad Muslims are not Muslims?
Second, who are you to decide who is and is not a real Muslim? I am fairly certain the Wahabi believe they are Muslim.

And those who call them selves Christian + they know the lessons of Jesus = they are not Christian.

They are a shell of Christian + I wanna do what I please . Like wahhabis.

I am not sure I should even respond to this obvious contradiction. I want to hope it is a language issue and not a true sentiment. Your first sentence describes good Christians and calls them not Christian.

Now when you start deciding Wahabi are not Muslim then I guess you get to go right down the list. Anyone that claims to be Muslim but is not your kind of Muslim is simply not a Muslim.

I cannot follow that.

West created Wahhabis to achieve it's goal. It is clear in history.

+ What that I don't talk about , doesn't mean that I am satisfied with it + I am concerned with many other facts but I don't discuss them in this thread.

peace.

You really focused in on Wahabi when I clearly mentioned bad Muslims, extremists, terrorists, etc. Why are you avoiding that because it is obviously on purpose?

But you did decide to put time and effort into talking about this. So I am still curious why you would not first use that time and energy to focus introspectively.

Basically what should seem like good intentions just reads as "I am a Muslim and there are no bad Muslims but everyone in the West is not being Christian enough for me."


You are way way way too far up your own behind on that one. You do not get to decide these things for anyone but you. Your god even tells you that in your holy book.

((but there's one thing with everything you have written. I take great offence at the need to put the "peace be upon him" whenever your so called hero's name is mentioned.))

the statement of peace be upon etc relates to all the prophets from moses to etc a remark of respect, i can understand what you mean there should be no preferential treatment when it comes to holy people from the bible.
that is something that all muslims should abide by if it enrages them to insult the muslim pophet then it should also dissapoint them that all the prophets arer sadly being mocked.

I avoid certain scences in family guy, south park etc coz theres alot of mockery!!!
I try not to get angry it just makes me not only sad but i respect the prophets even more as when they were alive they were subjected to this behaviour it aint nothing new! the faith i perscribe to is islam. hopefully no one will take offence by my statments.

Originally posted by Andcoulter
reply to post by generik

 

Are you actually blaming this one poster for everything from terrorist attacks to Middle Eastern culture?
I am pretty sure he or she never claimed to be all Muslims, let alone the worst of the fringe.

i certainly don't see that i'm blaming the OP personally. but am trying to get across why Islam is so contradictory in their expectations of others and of themselves.

i have seen way too much "you can't do this, say this etc" while at the same time denying basic freedoms for everyone they rule over. i was pointing out a lot of things that keep people from respecting Islam, which of course just fuels things like the so called preview that is being blamed for all the unrest recently. the cartoons, signs in NY subway system etc. how can anyone DEMAND respect while at the same time showing a lack of respect for everyone else? that is what Islam seems to do. until that changes i can't see why anyone should be expected to show such an intolerant group any respect.

Originally posted by Freeborn
One of the basic differences between the Islamic faith and 'western' society are the opposite views each has of freedom of speech and even thought..

Someone please explain how this became a dichotomy. I have long believed people just lump Middle Easter cultures with the Muslim religion and if some Atheist from a Muslim country does something, it represent Muslims and if a certain country has certain laws it represents Muslims because Muslims are in charge and made the laws. Well, not really. Muslims are not in charge making the rules. Muslims from that part of the world in that type of culture are in charge making the rules.

So either there are no Western Muslims or this is a gigantic attempt by the OP to get ignorant "Westerners" to just confirm they cannot discern a culture from a religion.

Originally posted by mideast

Originally posted by muse7
Don't mean to offend but

This whole thing is just childish don't you think? Why do you people care if someone makes fun of the god you worship?

This is a polite reply.

We think that we should respect each other's belief. Those disbelievers can mock prophets anytime they want. But they shouldn't do it in general entertainment and mass mind injection media tools.

There are always boundaries for freedom everywhere.

I think respect is a reasonable boundary of freedom. Specially respecting group of people.

Why dont you try to respect people's belief that they are free to say what they want? Oh wait you only want freedom if it serves your purpose.



Instead of limiting freedom why not try to limit the radical people that seem to flock to Islam? Is it the people or the book they worship or a little bit of both?



Let me ask you this question who decides what is free and what is not? Many terrible things happen because of religion what if the majority wanted to outlaw your belief ? Would you still be for the limits.

Originally posted by generik
i certainly don't see that i'm blaming the OP personally. but am trying to get across why Islam is so contradictory in their expectations of others and of themselves.

Read your post again. You addressed the OP directly and then tossed all those allegations out.
What is worse here is your defense. So you are not blaming the OP, you are blaming all Muslims.
How is that better?
Can you tell me exactly what percentage of Muslims fit into any of the categories you are discussing? If you cannot give me a sourced answer, I am forced to believe you just lump all Muslims together as you pretty much just said. That is a tough road to go down if we find out what that other religions also have extremists and terrorist. Look at what the Amish force their women to wear, between the rapings and beatings. Does it not bother you how they oppress their women?
How about the Mormons who treat women as property? Surely they represent all Mormons and therefor also all Christians?
How about how Atheists in trailer parks that drink too much and like to beat their women? They must represent all Atheists? All trailer park residents? All men?

i have seen way too much "you can't do this, say this etc" while at the same time denying basic freedoms for everyone they rule over.

Seeing it from whom and where? There are over a billion Muslims. How many have told you what you can and cannot do?

i was pointing out a lot of things that keep people from respecting Islam, which of course just fuels things like the so called preview that is being blamed for all the unrest recently. the cartoons, signs in NY subway system etc. how can anyone DEMAND respect while at the same time showing a lack of respect for everyone else? that is what Islam seems to do. until that changes i can't see why anyone should be expected to show such an intolerant group any respect.

That is what Islam seems to do if you are an American, sans passport, sans interest in world cultures and religions, and a steady stream of what the government and MSM want you to believe. Outside that world, I see a tiny proportion of Muslims doing some really bad things. I cannot find one thing they have done that Christians have not done though. I also look at my Muslim friends who are just as puzzled at the extremists and we wonder why it is so easy for so many Americans specifically to attribute to 100% what less than 1% have ever done or tried to do? Then we remember how Americans do not like to leave their country or trust foreign news and it all makes sense.

Read your post again. You are as bad as he or she. That person never claimed to be associated with any of the bad extreme examples of ME culture or Islam that you specifically told the OP they need to be worried about and focus on.

Which is odd because I said the same thing, only without addressing him as if he is responsible for any of those things in any way.

According to you, just being Muslims means you must make Islam look better than the tiny percent of idiots make it look.

I want a number.
What percentage of Muslims in the world can take any kind of credit for any of the stuff you claimed? My Muslim friends certainly do not tell their wives what they can and cannot wear. Most of them would be on the curb with suitcases if they even tried. WESTERN MUSLIM WOMEN are very strong women.

I know your type. You see a women dressed from head to toe in a black robe and immediately you want to free her for her own good. I would love to see you try that with any of the Muslim women I know who wish they could "free" all the 12 year old girls in America walking around dressed like sluts. But they only worry about themselves and their family following the rules of the religion they adhere to.

I will be waiting for that percentage and the corresponding source before I respond to you again. Thanks.

Terrorism is organized violence and vandalism.
Absolutely bounded by law.
Lawlessness is the law of terrorism.
Prodigies and genius are assets to the world.
Few of them are liability.
Better known as exceptions.
These exceptions head terrorism.
Juvenile delinquents, abandoned kids, exploited and abused,
Orphans, illegitimates, victims of utter poverty
Are the protégé.
Most join out of choice.
Few are forced to, result of frustration and despair.
Rest, just for the heck of it, oblivious to the non-existence of exit.
Best professional guidance and training is provided.
International faculty contributes.
Success rate is one hundred percent.
Graduated are numero uno desperados, killers, extortionists,
Hardcore criminals

Prophet Mohammad means nothing to me thats my freedom of choice.. & i have the right to bare arms if some Islam group wants to throw rocks..
GOD BLESS AMERICA

reply to post by Freeborn


Mutual respect is what I wanted to be noticed.

This is not complicated.

I described religious aspect of the world as a Muslim. I see where the ship is going and I said my opinion where I like to go best.

I wanted to create some love and mutual understanding.

peace

reply to post by SubTruth

Let me ask you this question who decides what is free and what is not

Those who made rules and laws.

reply to post by Andcoulter

Someone please explain how this became a dichotomy.

How what became a dichotomy?

I have long believed people just lump Middle Easter cultures with the Muslim religion

Some do - probably because each has such a massive bearing on the other - that was pretty much one of the points I made - Islam is such an all encompassing religion that it impacts on many aspects of their culture and society.
Obviously there are some cultural differences within the region.

and if some Atheist from a Muslim country does something, it represent Muslims

How many Atheists have you met, or know of, live in the almost exclusively Islamic middle eastern countries?

and if a certain country has certain laws it represents Muslims because Muslims are in charge and made the laws. Well, not really. Muslims are not in charge making the rules. Muslims from that part of the world in that type of culture are in charge making the rules.

Well in those countries where Sharia, or interpretations of Koranic law, make up the vast bulk of those countries laws then I would very much suggest that it is Islam itself that has determined the law rather than 'Muslims from that part of the world'.
And regardless what we may think, the simple truth is that the vast majority of laws within the Middle East as a whole stem from The Koran and it's teachings.

So either there are no Western Muslims or this is a gigantic attempt by the OP to get ignorant "Westerners" to just confirm they cannot discern a culture from a religion.

With all due respect I honestly don't see how you come to this conclusion - perhaps that's just me being a complete blockhead - it wouldn't be the first time.

Originally posted by mideast
I suggest those Christians stand for their belief and respect their special prophet ,too.

I suggest that Muslims who are uptight accept that this is 2012 and not everyone believes the same thing .. and that it's okay for people not to have the same beliefs ... and that violence against people who worship God differently (or don't worship at all) is UNACCEPTABLE in a civilized society.

Originally posted by mideast
Social respect can be a good boundary for freedom of speech.

Wrong. Absolutely wrong.

In Iran the Muslim 'morals police' beat women who dare to show an ankle or a wrist. The women are thrown in jail and raped and beaten. That is inhumane and I will not have 'social respect' and keep quiet about the fact that it's uncivilized to treat women in this manner. Some things are just unworthy of respect.

In Iran the Muslim government condones the murder of homosexuals .. by hanging in the public square. This is inhumane and I will not have 'social respect' and keep quiet about the fact that it's uncivilized to treat homosexuals in this manner. Some things are just unworthy of respect.

Truth is truth. Telling the truth isn't 'hate speech.
Mocking that which deserves to be mocked is a form of telling the truth.
Political cartoons have been an excellent way to tell the truth.
I fully support them and the right of those who make them.

ETA -

Originally posted by RealSpoke
This thread is far more terrifying than suicide bombers....lol

OMG .. someone quick call Hell and see if it has frozen over!
I have agreed with RealSpoke ..

Sorry, that your question remained un-answered.

I don't have much time to take part into this fundamental debates.

Once again I say the purpose of this OP.

Thank god I am not contradiction doctor. I haven't solved many for myself.

But until now , I know that contradictions were withing me.

In another aspect of this thread I wanted to say to Christian people to do as Jesus did and be aware of the changes.

Peace awareness and love.

reply to post by mideast

Mutual respect is what I wanted to be noticed.

I will always attempt to offer a person the same level of respect I would like to see offered to me - but that doesn't mean to say that I will offer any sort of agreement, understanding and possibly even respect for a belief system that seeks to repress and control.

I wanted to create some love and mutual understanding.

Commendable intentions.

peace

We can but hope.

Originally posted by mideast

Originally posted by muse7
Don't mean to offend but

This whole thing is just childish don't you think? Why do you people care if someone makes fun of the god you worship?

This is a polite reply.

We think that we should respect each other's belief. Those disbelievers can mock prophets anytime they want. But they shouldn't do it in general entertainment and mass mind injection media tools.

There are always boundaries for freedom everywhere.

I think respect is a reasonable boundary of freedom. Specially respecting group of people.

Your beliefs are not respectful of me, so why should I be respectful of your beliefs?

You accept a book as fact that states I am essentially scum who will be tortured in Hell, and what's more, you want to worship said torturer. Sorry, that kinda puts us at odds. These beliefs, founded in absolutely zero evidence, are worthy of mockery and mankind can only progress and learn to respect one another when such backwards ideas no longer exist.

Religion (and I am not singling out Islam here, this applies to Christianity too) is the single most divisive concept in existence. You want to worship such a divisive concept while telling everyone to get on and respect each other. That's an insane idea, I'm afraid. If you want us to come together, stop worshipping that which divides us.

Do you think there would be such a gulf between yourself and "the west" if it were not for religion? Religion is the problem, respecting and empowering it can never be the solution.

Originally posted by Freeborn
reply to post by Andcoulter

 

Someone please explain how this became a dichotomy.

How what became a dichotomy?

You are not really asking me that are you? I quoted it exactly from you so there would no confusion. Here it is again.

Originally posted by Andcoulter

Originally posted by Freeborn
One of the basic differences between the Islamic faith and 'western' society are the opposite views each has of freedom of speech and even thought..

Someone please explain how this became a dichotomy.

I am confused what you are confused about and from here it has the scent of a ruse in attempt to engage in something perhaps cathartic on your behalf but most likely less than productive on mine.

So this is my parting shot to you for the evening as I must get some sleep.
If you are serious about your question above then I am not sure I will ever be able to communicate with you in any manner that will benefit anyone. If you are asking for the reason I stated then please try your post again and be right up front about where you want this to go.

I am not looking for fights. There is no way anyone can be confused about what I was asking. You are the one writing of dichotomies, not me. So to then ask me what I mean by that just sits a little tilted with me.

Goodnight and blessing be upon you as well.

Sometimes when I look at the Muslim propaganda, both are sides are going to be blamed in the end. As a Muslim, I understand that we should perform Jihad when someone tells lies about Islam and we should do something about it, but why are people in the Middle East performing Jihad violently? We should've done it peacefully in which we are supposed to do but to no avail. Don't let emotions get over us or else this will really be our downfall.

Originally posted by mideast
Sorry, that your question remained un-answered.

I don't have much time to take part into this fundamental debates.

Once again I say the purpose of this OP.

Thank god I am not contradiction doctor. I haven't solved many for myself.

But until now , I know that contradictions were withing me.

In another aspect of this thread I wanted to say to Christian people to do as Jesus did and be aware of the changes.

Peace awareness and love.

Once again I ask what that purpose is.
I really cannot buy any of this at all at this point but I am very curious about where it is going.