Even if evolution isn't true - the evidence still exist ( that a perfect God didn't create us)

Originally posted by daskakik

Originally posted by Ophiuchus 13
The way I wrote it describes how you rewrote it also

to show it goes both ways?

edit on 10/4/12 by Ophiuchus 13 because: (no reason given)

No, the way you wrote it is "a higher power or God(s) exist = truth. You are free to accept or ignore.

The way I wrote it is "a higher power or God(s) do not exist = truth. You are free to accept or ignore.

In one the existence is truth and in the other the non existence is truth. That's the reason for the question.

Originally posted by Ophiuchus 13

[color=cyan]I mean you have the ability to deny truth or accept truth, with truth = subjective reality. So you can accept there is a higher power or GOD(s) who created you and me or simply ignore and deny there is a GOD(S) at all.

As posted above, NO I did not please dont word play my text thanks

Originally posted by Ophiuchus 13
[color=cyan]I mean you have the ability to deny truth or accept truth, with truth = subjective reality. So you can accept there is a higher power or GOD(s) who created you and me or simply ignore and deny there is a GOD(S) at all.

As posted above, NO I did not please dont word play my text thanks

If you don't see that your premise states that the "truth is that god exists" and a person can only accept or deny, while mine states that the "truth is that god does not exist" and a person can only accept or deny, which makes them different, then there is not much more that I can do to clear that up.

reply to post by daskakik


k but its clear what I wrote in reference to FREE WILL? which is what I was describing in relation to you have a free will to more less think and act as you want but that does not mean your thinking or acts related to your thinking are subjective to what is reality of all.

reply to post by Tearman


There are many children born who have memories still of their past lives.
Some children remember so well that they can tell you their past name, where and when they lived. This has been verified multiple times.
You should also check out any books by Brian Weiss M.D. He is a psychologist who studied at Yale and then went on to practice hypnosis. While working with patients under hypnosis he accidentally stumbled upon past life regressions. He has since been a pioneer in past life regression therapy, which consists of patients being hypnotized and then regressed backwards to past lives, many of times it result in their present day emotional and even physical conditions being 'cured.'
Many people have been able to speak ancient languages that they have never heard much less spoken before. Others are able to explain in very fine detail all about a past life and past civilization where they lived, which can later be confirmed by historians. Some have even been able to remember their most recent life, remember their name and where/how they died and then confirm and look up and visit the gravestone of their previous life.
And still, other patients (but not many, only those who are able to go very very deep) are able to go in between lives where they can speak to 'the masters' which are beings that live on a different dimension than we do. These Masters are able to communicate directly through the hypnotized patient and deliver beautifully lucid spiritual messages that are far beyond the patients current spiritual or philosophical understanding.

This is all documented.

I would recommend the book "Only Love is Real" by Brian Weiss. It really is beautiful. And, again, it's all documented from his personal sessions with patients.

If you want even more 'physical proof'...well, I don't know what you would be looking for. This is exactly what many spiritual masters and mystics and gurus have said for thousands of years. Multiple lifetimes. One Soul.
For me, this just resonates perfectly with my soul and my beliefs. I use to speak to God directly as a child and he spoke back to me. I was about 3 at the time and remember some of what He said.

(For the record...I am not 'Christian,' nor am I any other established Religion. I think religion rules out of fear, whereas God 'rules' out of Love. But I do believe Jesus Christ was an embodiment of God and reached the highest state of physical enlightenment man can reach. He came here to teach us that this is possible for us to do as well.)

To the OP:

Look at it in a subjective way instead of an objective way.

Why would God need to experiment? Why would he experiment? Why would he allow us to discover the fact that he experimented?

If indeed this were the case,,, there could be multiple answers.

The answers need not take the traditional scientific theory route. Think of it more in-line with the artisitc route.

1+1=2
But, this does not equate out in art. A beautiful picture is not deemed so in the eyes of all purveyors.
God may have changed his mind. He may still change his mind even from this point; and that's what the scripture says anyways. We will recieve new bodies and will see new realities.

What if God painted a picture? And that picture is the reality we see right now. But, there were different realities in the progression to this reality.
What's so imperfect about this? Even if you were God, could you not paint one picture more beautiful than the next?

The subjectivity of the topic is such that you would be beholden to your point of view.
Of course we would agree that this reality is the most beautiful and perfect. What else have we known?
Just you wait!

Originally posted by Ophiuchus 13
reply to post by daskakik

 

k but its clear what I wrote in reference to FREE WILL? which is what I was describing in relation to you have a free will to more less think and act as you want but that does not mean your thinking or acts related to your thinking are subjective to what is reality of all.

Well you were replying to Tearman's request for a definition of free will that wasn't meaningless.

I took the part that I changed around to be an example. The problem I see with it is that we don't really know what is the truth, which makes your definition of free will, at least in certain circumstances, meaningless.

I see it almost the opposite way.

Even if god is proven to be true, evolution is still correct. The only thing up for debate is whether the process is intelligently guided or not. Evolution is a proven field of science based on objective tangible evidence, and god as described by ancients texts is far from perfect. The dozen or so species of hominid, and story of the flood prove he is not omniscient or omnipotent. God is more likely to be a race of aliens TBH.

Imagine that you are a flower wondering about where you came from. As a flower you would look back at history and say if God was perfect then he would have made the flower before the stem.
As a flower you might think you had freewill because you decided to emerge and turn to face the sun.

God never makes the same 'thing' twice. No snowflake has been found that is the same as any other snowflake. There are 7 billion apparent people on earth and not one is the same as the other. I think that makes God pretty amazing.

The more 'things' change, the more they stay the same.
God is what is seeing and knowing the changing - only God stays the same. God is the presence in which the appearance appear to change.