Originally posted by boncho


Seems to implicate the President given the role no? Maybe that's why he hasn't taken much from the whole fiasco...

Not to me. If Cheney was in charge of something like this I would blame Cheney not Bush. I actually blame Mexican losers shooting kids for this one though, sorry.

I'm sure Obama knew all about it, but that's not the same as actively running it. Or actively shooting kids in the face. U.S. presidents don't make Mexicans kill people, they just don't.

It will get better we
(USA taxpayers)
will soon be smuggling drones across border,
guns are so outdated in terms of modern murder.

Originally posted by buster2010
If you are going to give credit give it to the person that really deserves it. And that none other than Bush. But then it was called Operation Wide Receiver.

Two unrelated programs, and more importantly OWR did not end in a total fiasco of failures and deaths. OWR ended in 2007, and Holders SAF started in 2009...

Originally posted by Dustytoad
I'm sure Obama knew all about it, but that's not the same as actively running it. Or actively shooting kids in the face. U.S. presidents don't make Mexicans kill people, they just don't.

Holder works directly for Obama, and Obama protected him with executive privilege... oh he knew and would rather no one else knows...well until after the election.

Originally posted by buster2010

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
I'll absolutely give Obama credit for helping to flood a nation with guns where guns are entirely imported from one source or another. That did nothing to help with a Civil War that crossed 50,000 Mexican dead the last I checked losses to date.

It's getting a bit silly to blame Obama for individual shootings though isn't it? I mean even the shooting of the Federal Agent that started everything couldn't be charged on anyne(sic) involved with the Fast and Furious insanity. it just made the reason compelling enough to get politicians off their fat butts to even look into what happened, IMO.

Obama is no more responsible for this than if an asteroid hit the Earth and we missed warning over some NASA decision Obama made. The end result never changes....

If you are going to give credit give it to the person that really deserves it. And that none other than Bush. But then it was called Operation Wide Receiver.

Just as xtrozero points out, OWR ended in 2007 without the murder of innocent children. Obama’s program started in 2009, and maybe currently active now. We don’t because Obama initiated Executive Privilege.

Obama 2012... Deal with it.

Only time republicans care about Mexicans..is when it supports their cause..other than that...get them dirty brown people out of the country...right

Originally posted by Violater1

Obama responsible for teen birthday massacre

The saying, “the buck stops here” relates to the responsibility of the actions of all subordinates by their superiors
or heads of State.
ABC News reports that the guns that were ( or are being) illegally shipped across the border by the Obama Administration are responsible for the massacre of 14 children and 12 wounded, at a teenagers birthday party in Mexico.

Now that the far right has COMPLETELY reversed thier position that "guns don't kill people, people kill people" and are eagerly assigning all the blame to the availability of guns...can we ban guns?

I'm so tired of this whole Fast & Furious debacle. Any 2nd Amendment advocate will tell you, "if a criminal wants a gun, then they are going to get a gun". The source of the gun is not really important, the fact that there are violent criminals who use guns is the problem. Obama is not Responsible for any massacre, the criminal murder(s) are responsible.

Was F&F a screw-up? Certainly. Would those criminals have gotten their hands on firearms without F&F? Certainly.

So, instead of turning this whole mess into a blame game witch hunt, why not address the real problem?

Yep not only that we have lost three border patrol agents due to fast and furious... but this is just sickening....

I hope Romney comes and cleans house

Originally posted by LeatherNLace
I'm so tired of this whole Fast & Furious debacle. Any 2nd Amendment advocate will tell you, "if a criminal wants a gun, then they are going to get a gun". The source of the gun is not really important, the fact that there are violent criminals who use guns is the problem. Obama is not Responsible for any massacre, the criminal murder(s) are responsible.

Was F&F a screw-up? Certainly. Would those criminals have gotten their hands on firearms without F&F? Certainly.

So, instead of turning this whole mess into a blame game witch hunt, why not address the real problem?

Well, by that logic, someone owes Oliver North a very large apology for all the trouble the former Colonel went through for just 'supplying guns where they'd have found some anyway', right? Surely the Contra Rebels didn't NEED American guns anymore than Mexican drug cartels. So..why did we go through a couple years of hearings many of us watched back then, and ruined lives all around?

Well... As I understood it at the time..the U.S. Government just doesn't get to hand out weapons and ordinance like it's a birthday party handing out door prizes. Now that had better be as true in 2012 as it was in the 1980's. ...and yes, for the nit pickers and fact nazis, it WAS different for 100% specific details...but absolutely close enough for comparison. (pay no mind.. I'm just getting used to the Fact Nazi's haunting the threads recently)

It's absurd to blame Obama for any individual event committed with these guns, but it's damn sure fair to note credit for flooding the scene with weapons down there. If the cartels didn't have USE for them, they wouldn't have taken even the minor risks involved with smuggling them south, eh?

Originally posted by LeatherNLace
I'm so tired of this whole Fast & Furious debacle. Any 2nd Amendment advocate will tell you, "if a criminal wants a gun, then they are going to get a gun". The source of the gun is not really important, the fact that there are violent criminals who use guns is the problem. Obama is not Responsible for any massacre, the criminal murder(s) are responsible.

Was F&F a screw-up? Certainly. Would those criminals have gotten their hands on firearms without F&F? Certainly.

So, instead of turning this whole mess into a blame game witch hunt, why not address the real problem?

I did address the real problem, and his name is Barack Hussein Obama

The political game is especially embarrassing to watch this year. I'm no fan of Obama, or Holder, but tell me.. is there so much as a shred of evidence to suggest that these innocents were killed by firearms supplied through FnF?

Isn't Mexico a sea of illegal firearms already? You know, being an active war zone for the past decade or so?

It's a bloody tragedy, and trying to use it to gain political capital because you think the other guy is somehow better isn't just stupid, it's downright cruel.

We stick our nose into everybody elses business yet we won't go in to Mexico and take out these drug cartels who murder children and smuggle drugs across the border because - we are working with them!

Yeah, tell me again how this American Government is worth saving.

This is where the war is folks not overseas. If I were President, I'd bring all our troops home and get special forces - all of them, Rangers, Seal Team 6, 7, 8 and 9 and all the rest of the so called Elites and send them in to clean up. That includes any corrupt in the Mexican government. Then I'd give Mexico 10a choice - Keep it clean or we are taking over.

A United States of Mexico would solve tons of problems and the Mexican people would love it - they all want to come here anyway! Of course we would have to burn down all the pot and coc aine plantations and that means routing out the corruption in the CIA and other alphabet agencies too.

If I were President, I'd have to live 24/7 in a glass bulletproof bubble because my own VP would want to murder me.