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Democratic Myth No. 2: Those who have done well should pay their fair share

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posted on Oct, 2 2012 @ 07:59 AM
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I'm against taxes. We did ok for 130+ years without them.

However, if we're going to have taxes at all, I absolutely think the rich should pay more. A lot more.
I'm for a sliding scale that taxes the poor maybe 1 or 2 percent, and taxes the better-off in proportion to what they make, with the super rich paying maybe 75 percent of what they make.

Unfair? Too damn bad.

If you're making $100,000,000 a year, for example, you should pay $75 mil in taxes. Anybody who's going to complain about having to live on $25 million a year needs a kick in the sascrotch.

Don't try to sell me any crap about "stealing the fruits of the rich guy's labor".
There is no work anybody can do that is hard enough to justify that kind of money.
(I'd love to get a Romney or a Rockafeller or some other "elite" rich guy to work with me for a month, assuming they could make it that long)

Were I making that kind of money, I'd be more than happy to give 75% in taxes to support the system that allowed me to be so successful, and I'd retire after one year.
$25 million would last me the rest of my life, and then some.

The rich would still be rich. If it takes them 20 years to amass more money than anybody ever needs instead of just 10 years to amass more money than anybody ever needs, I don't have a problem with that.

I'm sure this won't be a very popular idea, but as I mentioned above, too damn bad.




posted on Oct, 2 2012 @ 08:25 AM
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reply to post by subject x
 


I starred you just because I appreciate your bluntness and got a kick out of your post, especially this:




Don't try to sell me any crap about "stealing the fruits of the rich guy's labor". There is no work anybody can do that is hard enough to justify that kind of money.


that is how I see it....I mean, good god, who really needs that much money?

But that is not the point.

It is the principle that matters, and it is the principle of it that gets people all worked up. the arguement is........freedom......freedom to make a f#sh#tstack of money and sit on it like a king on a throne......that is the American dream, that is why people have come here to walk on streets of gold.....so that if they earn it, they can keep it.....it is theirs and no one can take it from them.....the sky is the limit.

It is this basic freedom that is under fire.....the freedom to amass wealth and keep it or being forced to give up your wealth to other people.

I like freedom, I do not like anyone telling me what I MUST do. If I want to give up 75% of my income, let me.....if I want to keep all of it let me.....do not tell me what to do mr. Government man....mr IRS.

But.........reality is, if I want to drive on a decent road I kinda have to fork over a certain amount of my paycheck for that road. So, some tax might be neccessary........

The question is, how much is enough, how will it be spent, and who should be paying it....that is when we all start brawling like drunk cowboys in a saloon.



posted on Oct, 2 2012 @ 08:33 AM
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reply to post by Mijamija
 

Personally, I don't much care how big their pile of cash is. If someone wants to save his money and amass a fortune, have a day.

If we're going to be taxed though, they should pay proportionally. If someone makes 10,000 times what the lower end of the spectrum pays, they should pay 10,000 times the tax.



posted on Oct, 2 2012 @ 08:52 AM
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reply to post by subject x
 


I am horrible at math, so I can't get into all the nitty gritty of percentages and rates....but I personally don't understand people who want to sit on that much money, why wouldn't they want to give back into the system and make things good for everyone...I dont make a lot of money, but I try to give a bit to things, groups, people that need it, just because I can do a small part in making things better, it's not much, but it doesn't kill me to pry a few bucks out of my hands for a good cause, nor do I mind my tax dollars helping other people...the thing that does bother me is when I drive down my street, get a flat tire, am late to work and I lose money from my pay check....then I wonder why if we are paying for these roads they are crap? Where the heck is my tax dollars going? Government Mismanagement of funds is one of my biggest pet peeves!



posted on Oct, 2 2012 @ 09:45 AM
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Originally posted by seeker1963
reply to post by Hefficide
 


In theory you are right Heff......unfortunately it seems that our wonderful politicians always seem to put loopholes in the laws that allow the FILTHY rich to walk away paying less than the average joe who bust his/her hump to just keep a roof over their families heads..........

The problem with taxes isn't solely upon the wealthy, but the government scumbags who line their pockets with dirty money, while they watch those who blindly elected them into office suffer!


how exactly does that work? I mean a little more details would be nice... I hear what you are saying and I've heard it before from others but it would be nice for some of us lessers to be able to understand exactly how all that works.

the fact would appear that most of the wealthy you refer to pay more in taxes in one year than your average 50k a year Joe would pay in about 20 years.

PS; your avatar invokes images of John Wayne Gacy

edit on 2-10-2012 by SisyphusRide because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 2 2012 @ 10:39 AM
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Actually I did address that, indirectly, in my first or second post in this thread. Once we bail ourselves out of this mess, then we can fix the system and the folks in charge of it. Make them more accountable, more scrutinized and repair the structure of the ship
reply to post by Hefficide
 
But Heff if they are still conducting business as usual how will taxing higher incomes help? There is a aversion to actually cutting spending because they will tick off whoever's vote they bought with it. Remember there is a disconnect in politics with everyday people. Someone is going to throw politicians money or favors to get legislation passed in their favor at the expense of somebody else. It strikes me we have more then enough laws as it not being enforced to not need more just so some politician can kiss up for more votes. Without fixing the system we are not going to get out of this.

edit on 2-10-2012 by hangedman13 because: (no reason given)
edit on 2-10-2012 by hangedman13 because: my inner grammar nazi



posted on Oct, 2 2012 @ 01:05 PM
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Originally posted by Hefficide
reply to post by xuenchen
 


The entire subject predicates upon statistical anomalies.

If you make a fortune and pay, say $200,000.00 in taxes. While I make a pittance and only pay $2,000.00. You have obviously paid more than me. But You're left, with say $50,000,000 to live on, where I'm left with $50,000.

(These numbers are NOT accurate - just abstractions for example).

Now the government comes along and says "Bad news folks, budget fell short. We need people to pitch in a bit more to right the ship - the ship we are ALL sailing in!" and you say "Go bug Heff, he only paid one tenth what I did.

The problem is that I've only got enough left to pay my bills and eat.

But whatever. Life is life. Cest la vie'. Only... Instead of it getting left there. Now I wake up to find that YOU are walking the decks of the ship screaming that MY FAILURE TO PITCH IN is what is sinking the ship.

That's the analog and that's why so many are enraged right now. If the ship is sinking, you don't pick the weak ones to start bailing - you start with the strongest as your core of labor and then let the weaker folks pitch in as they can. As they are able.

~Heff
edit on 10/1/12 by Hefficide because: typo


But they're not going to bug Heff, are they? An extra $100 from Heff isn't worth their time or paperwork when they can get an extra $100,000 from someone else. Heff, even though he's a passenger on said ship and using just as many resources as every other person, maybe more since he can't afford the upper deck, won't be asked to "pitch in" because he's not a ripe target.

/TOA



posted on Oct, 2 2012 @ 01:31 PM
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reply to post by The Old American
 

All these posts lead me to ONE conclusion. The FAIR TAX. If everyone pays taxes on what they consume, vice what they EARN... it really does become incredibly FAIR. I make about $65K a year and spend almost all of it... one way or another.

If Romney or Kerry or Bush or Rockefeller buy a fleet of new cars... they PAY TAX on all the new toys. I don't have an airplane or a yacht, well, because I can't afford one. But they DO and they can afford it! And the REALLY rich don't like the FAIR TAX becasue they argue they have already been taxed once when DADDY earned it!

I can afford the things I buy and I can afford the tax on the things I can afford. AND SO CAN THEY! As Congressman Linder once so elequently stated: The Strippers, the Hookers, the Under the Table Plumbers, the Drug Dealers and Tony Soprano; EVERYBODY USES TOILET PAPER, lets tax that!



posted on Oct, 2 2012 @ 01:32 PM
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reply to post by subject x
 





If you're making $100,000,000 a year, for example, you should pay $75 mil in taxes. Anybody who's going to complain about having to live on $25 million a year needs a kick in the sascrotch.

You say that until the business you started in your basement takes off.

What's wrong with everyone (business/personal) pay 14%?
No deductions, no exclusions.
Romney would still pay a s##tload of money. And those 47% and down would still pay their fair share.

It's just not fair to deduct yourself to zero percent. Rich or poor.

If you turn things around consider this.
The rich still drive on the same crappy roads.
The rich still max out on SSI somewhere above 2K per month.
The rich still have the same deal on Medicare as the rest do.
Plus anytime they need something fixed the repairman knows they can gouge them a bit more.
Plus they are not going to get and discounts on new autos.

So if you want them to pay 75% shouldn't they be entitled to better benifits than someone who pays 14%?



posted on Oct, 2 2012 @ 01:36 PM
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reply to post by The Old American
 


The people on the first deck cabins got into the lifeboats. In fact several live boats left the ship more than half empty because the wealthy did not wish to be crowded. All those in second, third, portage, and steerage had a much lower survival rate.

And THEY ( those not in first class ) were, with few exceptions, the ones doing the bailing and fighting to save the ship.

Man analogies rock sometimes.

~Heff



posted on Oct, 2 2012 @ 01:41 PM
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The american government does not have the balls to audit the federal reserve and the really rich(deep millionares say $100 million or more) PAY ZILT in taxes. All the money is in private undisclosed bank accounts, trust funds or laundered in shell company transactions.

When are we gonna tell the american public the truth? Someone who makes $200,000 is almost as much a victim as the person who makes only $50,000 a year. America is not a sovereign country, it is a goddamn corporate fiction.

I say do NOT pay off the debt and tell the zionist luciferian bankers to take a hike off a pier into the pacific ocean with weights attached to their legs so they can't resurface their ugly&corrupt faces anymore. Isn't anyone else sick and tired of the bull#? Don't we have enough bullcrap to face each and every day to have to worry about parasites consuming our hard earned resources as well?



posted on Oct, 2 2012 @ 02:05 PM
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Originally posted by Flamingo6562
reply to post by The Old American
 

All these posts lead me to ONE conclusion. The FAIR TAX. If everyone pays taxes on what they consume, vice what they EARN... it really does become incredibly FAIR. I make about $65K a year and spend almost all of it... one way or another.

If Romney or Kerry or Bush or Rockefeller buy a fleet of new cars... they PAY TAX on all the new toys. I don't have an airplane or a yacht, well, because I can't afford one. But they DO and they can afford it! And the REALLY rich don't like the FAIR TAX becasue they argue they have already been taxed once when DADDY earned it!

I can afford the things I buy and I can afford the tax on the things I can afford. AND SO CAN THEY! As Congressman Linder once so elequently stated: The Strippers, the Hookers, the Under the Table Plumbers, the Drug Dealers and Tony Soprano; EVERYBODY USES TOILET PAPER, lets tax that!



If you are referring to a "value added tax"....

There is some support.

2012 GOP Platform Ties VAT Tax to Income Tax Repeal

(from other thread)

reply to post by xuenchen
 


The Republicans are saying a Value Added Tax is OK as long as the Income Tax laws are repealed !!

A VAT is generally like a sales tax on everything, but can get complicated.

I would think not as complicated as the IRS however.

Some countries have VATs as high as 20%.



posted on Oct, 2 2012 @ 02:08 PM
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What annoys me a whole lot, other than the fact ron pauls audit the fed legislation keeps getting blocked in congress, is that NO ONE talks about returning jobs to america. No one talks about a little protectionism and how important tariffs are to a healthy economy.

It is ALL ABOUT outsourcing, allowing big business to ship jobs to asia to save mega bucks to cheat the american government of taxes, and to cheat americans of jobs. No one cares about illegal immigration either, in fact they have been putting arizona down for years now.

Either america comes first in america, or we better start accepting a world currency and world government. You have to be blind to not see this is coming in a few years. I won't even talk about all the fabricated evidence for the holy crusades in the middle east and the seeming deliberate attempts of starting world war 3.

The american government has rabbies since 9-11-2001 and needs to be put down. Elect libertarians, socialists, green party members into government so we have some chance of righting the ship before it totally capsizes and we all drown.

It is not funny at all!



posted on Oct, 2 2012 @ 02:30 PM
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reply to post by seabag
 


Hey I just noticed that Obama wears a gold wedding band. Muslim men are not supposed to wear gold jewelry. They can wear platinum or silver but not gold.
So that leaves us with he's a marxist leninist. And yes the progressive income tax is part of the communist manifesto and is a communist tool for social justice.



posted on Oct, 2 2012 @ 02:33 PM
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reply to post by campanionator
 


Dear Companionator, For the benefit of everyone, I am going to post the 10 planks of the Communist Manifesto which includes the Progressive Income Tax. Congratulations, you are for communism.


www.libertyzone.com...


2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.

Americans know this as misapplication of the 16th Amendment of the U.S. Constitution, 1913, The Social Security Act of 1936.; Joint House Resolution 192 of 1933; and various State "income" taxes. We call it "paying your fair share".

edit on 2-10-2012 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)
edit on 2-10-2012 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 2 2012 @ 02:36 PM
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Here is a really "progressive tax" idea:

No income tax at all the power of taxation was given to the government to fund itself not fund the people.

That circular "argument" tax bob to pay rob and the government keeps a hell of a lot of overhead and gives to the peter,pauls, and marys of other countries.

So no thanks.

No fair tax
No income tax.

That way neither side can hold it over the citizens head and pit one class agianst another to stay in power.

I have a dream!!!!

And it is a might dream!!!!

That all people should extend the bird to the federal income tax.



posted on Oct, 2 2012 @ 02:37 PM
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Originally posted by Hefficide
reply to post by The Old American
 


The people on the first deck cabins got into the lifeboats. In fact several live boats left the ship more than half empty because the wealthy did not wish to be crowded. All those in second, third, portage, and steerage had a much lower survival rate.

And THEY ( those not in first class ) were, with few exceptions, the ones doing the bailing and fighting to save the ship.

Man analogies rock sometimes.








~Heff





That was a great microcosm of how the
entire world works. I for one, am incredibly
tired of bailing water and righting ships for
people with hands as soft as babies.

And on another note for the above posts.
Not only is Obama not a Muslim because of the gold ring,
I've heard it's incredibly difficult to become president if you're
a Marxist or communist. Like really tough...



posted on Oct, 2 2012 @ 02:39 PM
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reply to post by EarthCitizen07
 


So you admit you are a socialist. Thank you very much. See my post on the planks of communism and the progressive income tax.




to save mega bucks to cheat the american government of taxes,


Well that is coming from a socialist/communist mindset as it has nothing to do with free enterprise which is what this great country of ours was founded on. It was founded on principles of liberty and NO excessive taxation without representation, not on the 10 planks of the Communist Manifesto.



posted on Oct, 2 2012 @ 02:44 PM
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reply to post by sealing
 


Well, I don't know about the prospect of Marxists becoming POTUS, as we can clearly see that his Marxist roots were exposed before Nov 6 08 and people still voted for him. Everything he does has a Marxist root at its base, whether it is higher taxes, socialised healthcare(they wanted single payer but there are still too many Capitalists in this country), Union promotion, nationalization of the private sector, increase in size of govt, and even wars can be tools for communists whenever they want it.

The Soviet Union was fully communist when it fought as our ally in WWII. Something to think about.
edit on 2-10-2012 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 2 2012 @ 02:56 PM
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The real myth is that excess capital is ever the property of an individual, when in fact it belongs to the workers who created it, in commonality. That's what people are missing. Anything beyond personal property, where aggregated by an individual or small group of individuals is systemic theft and is excess production that should not be used by the few to control the labor of the many.





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