Originally posted by logical7

Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by adjensen

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I first read about it here and one other place before I ever found out that Jack Chick had published some series about it.

www.redicecreations.com...

If we wanted to get technical, we could created a conspiracy out of anything.

That's why I think we should just let the Bible and the Qu'ran speak for themselves.

edit on 2-10-2012 by Deetermined because: (no reason given)

maybe you dont get what i want to point out. Your will take Bible as authority but deny that it was compiled by an agenda holding church?

edit on 2-10-2012 by logical7 because: (no reason given)

Hudhaifa was afraid of their (the people of Sha’m and Iraq) differences in the recitation of the Quran, so he said to Uthman,’Chief of the Believers! Save this nation before they differ about the Book (Quran) as Jews and the Christians did before’. So Uthman sent a message to Hafsa, saying, ‘Send us the manuscripts of the Quran so that we may compile the Quranic materials in perfect copies and return the manuscripts to you ‘. Hafsa sent it to Uthman. Uthman then ordered Zaid ibn Thabit, Abdullah bin az Zubair, Sa’id bin al-As, and Abdur-Rahman bin Harith bin Hisham to rewrite the manuscripts in perfect copies. Uthman said to the three Qurraishi men,’ In case you disagree with Zaid bin Thabit on any point in the Quran, then write it in the dialect of the Qurraish as the Quran was revealed in their tongue’. They did so, and when they had written many copies, Uthman returned the original manuscripts to Hafsa. Uthman sent to every Muslim province one copy of what they had copied, and ordered that all the other Quranic materials, whether written in fragmentary manuscripts or whole copies, be burnt. (Sahih al-Bukhari, Vol. 6, P. 479). For the first time in the official works of the Hadith literature we read of other codices that were being compiled, in addition to the one done by Zaid for Abu Bakr, and that these were widely accepted and well-known, certainly far more so than the codex of Zaid which by this time was in the private possession of Hafsah. While some of those texts consisted only of a selection of portions, it is clearly stated that others were complete codices of the whole Quran.

The Uthmanic recension of the Quran may well have established only one text as the authorised text for the whole Muslim world, but it simultaneously eliminated a wealth of codices which were widely accepted in the various provinces and which had as much right as Zaid’s to be recognised as authentic copies. At-Tabari records (1.6.2952) that the people said to Uthman ” The Quran was in many books, and you have now discredited them all but one,” indicating that Zaid’s text was not considered to enjoy any preference over them in authenticity or authority. Nevertheless, even though the codices were eliminated, the variant readings between them were recorded and well-known c/f Abdullah ibn Mas’ud and Ubayy ibn Ka’b.

PS to Determined: Nobody claimed Jesus was a liar. The claim the muslims make is that the Bible was corrupted. And honestly, there is LOADS of historical evidence that this is true.

As noted at the beginning of this chapter, in addition to the many thousands of New Testament manuscripts, there are over 86,000 quotations of the New Testament in the early church fathers. There are also New Testament quotations in thousands of early church Lectionaries (worship books). There are enough quotations from the early church fathers that even if we did not have a single copy of the Bible, scholars could still reconstruct all but 11 verses of the entire New Testament from material written within 150 to 200 years from the time of Christ.

The Dead Sea Scrolls (found in 1947) prove the accuracy of the transmission of the Bible.

To be polite, i'l let you have that and ya now i get you better. But then why would Muhammad(pbuh) twist bible and make getting followers harder? As if they dint have enough trouble from pagan meccans. And later annoy jews in medina and make them enemies?

Originally posted by babloyi
reply to post by WarminIndy

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The internet is full of wrong information. You're the one who brought it up and are propagating it. It'd be like me linking to any random website that makes any random absurd claim "The jews caused the holocaust" (for example), and when pointed out that it is stupid, I say "Tell that to the website that said it!".

Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by logical7

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To be polite, i'l let you have that and ya now i get you better. But then why would Muhammad(pbuh) twist bible and make getting followers harder? As if they dint have enough trouble from pagan meccans. And later annoy jews in medina and make them enemies?

In my personal opinion, Muhammad was rebelling against the notion that Isaac's descendants would be the ones who were able to lay claim to Abraham's inheritance. Although God promised to make the Ishamelites a great nation, He made it clear that the inheritance was meant for Isaac's descendants.

I'm sure there were plenty of Ishmaelites who were willing to fight for what they thought should be theirs and follow Muhammad to claim it for themselves, regardless of what enemies he made in the process. He had to discredit Jesus, as Jesus was a descendant of Isaac.

Just like we see today. The Middle East is still fighting over the inheritance.

Originally posted by 1PLA1
reply to post by shuar911

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Wrong god, shuar91.....YWHW is not allah and never will be.

Jesus DID the will of the Living God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, not the moon god/war god that islam is calling allah.

Whoever came up with the stupid idea that Jesus was a muslim is guided by satan the deceiver.

Originally posted by Blarneystoner
No no no....

Jesus was a Buddhist.

The Lost Years of Jesus

And christians and jews in arabia before Muhammad(pbuh) were using the name Allah for YWHW. but maybe they were less learned than you.

Originally posted by 1PLA1
reply to post by logical7

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I probably am more learned than they

However, it is the intent behind the name....a rose is a rose by any other name. Whether arabs (Jew or Christian) speaking their native language say allah or YWHW is irrelevant to this discussion. The false prophet that made up islam traded the Living God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob for the false moon/war god. Look at the symbol for islam. It cannot be denied.

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
Look at the first link in my signature, I explore who Allah really is in that thread.

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
reply to post by logical7

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And christians and jews in arabia before Muhammad(pbuh) were using the name Allah for YWHW. but maybe they were less learned than you.

Allah is not God's name, that is retarded. Do you really think God's name is God?

Interesting that God would command Moses and Israel to proclaim his name to the nations but he didn't care for Muhammad to know what his name was . You guys don't pick up on that kind of stuff do you? Oh the irony and the people who are totally clueless. If your God's name is God then your God is the semitic deity of Fortune Gad.

edit on 2-10-2012 by lonewolf19792000 because: (no reason given)