Jesus was a "Muslim"

reply to post by WarminIndy


"Then they commit blasphemy of
the Holy Ghost, which is not a
human person and never had a human incarnation."
.
.
Really? So its blasphemy to give human incarnation to one god head in trinity while the other(son)god head is praised to do the same.
I dont know about blasphemy but do notice hypocricy

Originally posted by Sublimecraft
reply to post by shuar911

 

Jesus was/is an awesome dude who went around telling everybody to be cool, love everything and to stop having a go at others when you feel uncomfortable.

Jewish / Christian / Muslim / Buddhist / Jedi............that's an all too human label that he would obviously shed in an instant if/when he returns.

If you have skin, a heartbeat and walk upright then he came here to tell you something & you could/can take it or leave it.

It resonated with me so I run with it, but sometimes I also run with the wolves......., after all, how can I defeat the enemy without knowing how they think.

Knowledge is power - Jesus being a "Muslim" or "other" concerns me not - I have bigger fish to fry.

Interesting read - designed to galvanize nonetheless.

Sensible response! Thank you

Originally posted by shuar911

Originally posted by Sublimecraft
reply to post by shuar911

 

Jesus was/is an awesome dude who went around telling everybody to be cool, love everything and to stop having a go at others when you feel uncomfortable.

Jewish / Christian / Muslim / Buddhist / Jedi............that's an all too human label that he would obviously shed in an instant if/when he returns.

If you have skin, a heartbeat and walk upright then he came here to tell you something & you could/can take it or leave it.

It resonated with me so I run with it, but sometimes I also run with the wolves......., after all, how can I defeat the enemy without knowing how they think.

Knowledge is power - Jesus being a "Muslim" or "other" concerns me not - I have bigger fish to fry.

Interesting read - designed to galvanize nonetheless.

Sensible response! Thank you

I agree too, i see a copywrite suit going here, Jesus(pbuh)is not exclusive to christians. The argument here is only christians have the authority to speak of who he is.
Althought i do see the valid feelings that christians feel that their belief is hijacked
but come on, we muslims love and respect Jesus(pbuh)
not insulting him like Muhammad(pbuh) is insulted.
In Quran God says,
"say to people of the book, come to common terms between you and us...."

reply to post by logical7

but come on, we muslims love and respect Jesus(pbuh)

This is what I never understood.

How can Muslims say they love and respect Jesus when they follow Muhammad in calling him a liar?

That just doesn't make sense to me.

reply to post by borntowatch


Illogical and poor reasoning. Do you know why trinity is rubbish?

Just for the head start

All ready the hypocrisy and lies are spreading about Jesus from islamic religion.Why not look up what Jesus taught instead of what somone says about Jesus.
Isn't it common sense that the Quran does not teach one single testimony of Jesus Christ own words then I am pretty sure they are lying about Jesus.

Originally posted by logical7

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000

I see what you are getting into and thanx for a good point.
Shahada is a declaration of faith as you may know.
And disciples of Jesus(pbuh) must have believed that he is sent from God and followed him, thats shahada.
Everyone was supposed to say the shahada testifying the Oneness of God and prophethood of the prophet at that time.

The Shahada in Arabic transliteration

La ilaha il Allah, Muhammad-ur-Rasool-Allah

Was this phrase ever muttered by any of the prophets and by Jesus? Show me the verse from the Bible that supports that.

Tauhid-al-Asma was-Sifat A confession with your heart that you have to say: "O Allah! I testify that all the best of names and the most perfect qualities with which You have named or qualified Yourself in Your Book (i.e. the Qur’an) ORas Your Prophet Muhammad (saaws) has named or qualified You, with his statement, I confirm that all those (names and qualifications) are for You without changing their meanings or neglecting them completely or giving resemblance to others."

Wait a second here....you mean that allah was named by...Mohammed? You mean to tell me that Mohammed never said God's name Yaweh or I AM as Jesus did????

Imagine that, Mohammed named allah. The Hebrew word for God is HaShem, the Name. Jesus confirmed Moses when He said

Sh'ma Yis'ra'eil Adonai Eloheinu Adonai echad.
Barukh sheim k'vod malkhuto l'olam va'ed.
V'ahav'ta eit Adonai Elohekha b'khol l'vav'kha uv'khol naf'sh'kha uv'khol m'odekha.

Hear, Oh, Israel, the Lord is our God, the Lord is One.
Blessed be the Name of His glorious kingdom for ever and ever.
And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your might.

OK, so if Jesus proclaimed this Jewish prayer in Hebrew, show me where Jesus was saying the shahada of Mohammed?

(Exodus) 20:7 "You shall not misuse the name of HaShem your God, for HaShem will not hold anyone guiltless who misuses his name.

When Mohammed took it upon himself to change the name of HaShem, he very clearly violated that commandment, So it is a default that Moses nor Jesus could have ever taken the shahada.

Allah is a contraction word from "il" and ilah", which simply means, the god. Hubal was called allah among the pagan Arabians before Mohammed.

BTW, this explanation came from an Islamic website How To Become a Muslim

When you take the shahada, you have to deny the very God that Moses spoke to and the ONE who came in His Name...Emmanuel, Jesus Christ.

It is essential to utter, La ilaha ill Allah, Muhammad-ur-Rasul Allah (none has the right to be worshipped but Allah, and Muhammad s.a.a.w.s. is the Messenger of Allah, s.w.t). As it has come in the statement of Prophet Muhammad to his uncle Abu Talib at the time of the latter’s death: "O uncle, if you utter it (La ilaha ill Allah, Muhammad-ur-Rasul Allah), then I shall be able to argue on your behalf before Allah, on the Day of Resurrection." Similarly, when Abu Dhar Al-Ghiffari embraced Islam, he went to Al-Masjid-al-Haram and he proclaimed it loudly in front of the Quraish infidels until he was beaten severely.

Is Mohammed a mediator for you? What makes him a mediator?

"Adam disputed with Musa. Musa said to Adam: "O, Adam, you are the father of the human race, Allah created you with His hand, and blew into you of His spirit, and made His angels prostrate to you, why did you expel yourself and us from the garden?" Adam said to him: "You are Musa whom Allah favored with His speech, and wrote for you the Taurah with His hand, so (tell me) by how many years before my creation did you find it written about me: [... then Adam disobeyed his Lord and got lost.] (Qur'an 20:121)? Musa said: "By forty years." Then, Adam said: "So how do you blame me for something which Allah had decreed for me before my creation by forty years?" The Prophet said: "And so, Adam defeated Musa in the dispute."

Adam and Moses never lived at the same time. Can you see how Mohammed and the writers of the Quran distorted everything? Mohammed should have been aware that those Jews were saying HaShem, but he then worshipped once again in the kaaba before an idol called Hubal and allowed the crescent moon symbol to be perpetuated. Mohammed's allah was not the same HaShem of the Jews, then killed Jews when they rejected him.

reply to post by WarminIndy

"Adam disputed with Musa. Musa said to Adam: "O, Adam, you are the father of the human race, Allah created you with His hand, and blew into you of His spirit, and made His angels prostrate to you, why did you expel yourself and us from the garden?" Adam said to him: "You are Musa whom Allah favored with His speech, and wrote for you the Taurah with His hand, so (tell me) by how many years before my creation did you find it written about me: [... then Adam disobeyed his Lord and got lost.] (Qur'an 20:121)? Musa said: "By forty years." Then, Adam said: "So how do you blame me for something which Allah had decreed for me before my creation by forty years?" The Prophet said: "And so, Adam defeated Musa in the dispute."

Meh. The surah you quoted was a story.

I'd suggest people read the full surah. then you'll understand the context of it.

quran.com...

i want you to read an article in wikipidea regarding 'Jesus in Islam' .I hope this article can help us reduce the gap betweeen the West and Middle East
en.wikipedia.org...

Originally posted by synapsis
i want you to read an article in wikipidea regarding 'Jesus in Islam' .I hope this article can help us reduce the gap betweeen the West and Middle East
en.wikipedia.org...

Welcome to ATS!

Wikipedia is not generally accepted as a good source of anything other than general overviews of subjects, and even then, only as a starting point for a discussion. It would be better to post what your thoughts are on the matter of "Jesus in Islam", since a Wikipedia can't really be debated. (The same applies to YouTube videos -- they're not very useful to post, in and of themselves, as many people, including myself, can't or won't watch them.)

Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by logical7

 

but come on, we muslims love and respect Jesus(pbuh)

This is what I never understood.

How can Muslims say they love and respect Jesus when they follow Muhammad in calling him a liar?

That just doesn't make sense to me.

Its has a simple explanation, maybe all that you are told about Jesus(pbuh) from st. Paul, the church and company must not be taken blindly.
Lets see who could stand to profit from the lies, who had the motives?
St. Paul-never met Jesus(pbuh), was considered a pain in the a&& by other diciples and told to go and do watever he wishes with the gentiles.
Romans-found the new religion as a threat challenging their pagan beliefs, persecuted christians a lot and suddenly constantine with a stroke of fine statesmanship makes it the official religion but also corrupting it with pagan ideas.
The church-consolidated immense power with help of the empire and papacy, needed to keep dictatorship over belief. and had the means to pick and choose gospels that served the purpose.
.
.
on the other hand
Muhammad(pbuh)- told things that angered jews and christians(still do) when he could have agreed to make a hybrid religion that pleased all and get more following.
So i dont know about others,but i will put more trust in the words of Muhammad(pbuh)

reply to post by logical7


This isn't about what I've been told by the Roman Catholic Church.

This is the Bible versus the Qu'ran.

If we wanted to make this about conspiracy and control, I could say that one already existed when the Roman Catholic Church created Islam and used Muhammad as a tool to gain their political control too, but that would get both of us nowhere.

Useless argument.

Originally posted by Deetermined
If we wanted to make this about conspiracy and control, I could say that one already existed when the Roman Catholic Church created Islam and used Muhammad as a tool to gain their political control too, but that would get both of us nowhere.

Have you been reading Jack Chick tracts, too?

reply to post by adjensen


I first read about it here and one other place before I ever found out that Jack Chick had published some series about it.

www.redicecreations.com...

If we wanted to get technical, we could created a conspiracy out of anything.

That's why I think we should just let the Bible and the Qu'ran speak for themselves.

Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by logical7

 

This isn't about what I've been told by the Roman Catholic Church.

This is the Bible versus the Qu'ran.

If we wanted to make this about conspiracy and control, I could say that one already existed when the Roman Catholic Church created Islam and used Muhammad as a tool to gain their political control too, but that would get both of us nowhere.

Useless argument.

you mean Jesus(pbuh) wrote the bible? Or moved around carrying a book with golden letters, "The Holy Bible" on it? or did he tell to include, mathew, mark, luke, john and allow paul to write whatever he wrote. If that wasnt done by the church then who compiled the bible?

Originally posted by shuar911
reply to post by WarminIndy

 

"Adam disputed with Musa. Musa said to Adam: "O, Adam, you are the father of the human race, Allah created you with His hand, and blew into you of His spirit, and made His angels prostrate to you, why did you expel yourself and us from the garden?" Adam said to him: "You are Musa whom Allah favored with His speech, and wrote for you the Taurah with His hand, so (tell me) by how many years before my creation did you find it written about me: [... then Adam disobeyed his Lord and got lost.] (Qur'an 20:121)? Musa said: "By forty years." Then, Adam said: "So how do you blame me for something which Allah had decreed for me before my creation by forty years?" The Prophet said: "And so, Adam defeated Musa in the dispute."

Meh. The surah you quoted was a story.

I'd suggest people read the full surah. then you'll understand the context of it.

quran.com...

edit on 2-10-2012 by shuar911 because: (no reason given)

Is this the same Moses, the brother of Aaron, that Mohammed said Mary, the mother of Jesus was Aaron's sister?

Oh, that surah was posted on the website I gave the link for...how to become a Muslim...so maybe you should protest their use of it?

Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by adjensen

 

I first read about it here and one other place before I ever found out that Jack Chick had published some series about it.

www.redicecreations.com...

If we wanted to get technical, we could created a conspiracy out of anything.

That's why I think we should just let the Bible and the Qu'ran speak for themselves.

edit on 2-10-2012 by Deetermined because: (no reason given)

maybe you dont get what i want to point out. You will take Bible as authority but deny that it was compiled by an agenda holding church?

reply to post by logical7

maybe you dont get what i want to point out. Your will take Bible as authority but deny that it was complied by an agenda holding church?

I don't think you get what I'm trying to point out to you.

Everything Muhammad ever learned was originally from the church too before he ever wrote the Qu'ran.

The Qu'ran is nothing more than a twisted Bible. There is no unique story told by Muhammad. He took what he already knew and changed it.

That's why I say this is a go nowhere argument.

In the days of Jesus, all of them had 26 books of scripture already available to them to use as a reference and more were added later after Jesus' death and before Muhammad came along.

reply to post by WarminIndy

The internet is full of wrong information. You're the one who brought it up and are propagating it. It'd be like me linking to any random website that makes any random absurd claim "The jews caused the holocaust" (for example), and when pointed out that it is stupid, I say "Tell that to the website that said it!".

If you read the verses that are referred to, using logical's link or any other translation of the quran, you won't find Moses/Musa anywhere in that story.


PS to Determined: Nobody claimed Jesus was a liar. The claim the muslims make is that the Bible was corrupted. And honestly, there is LOADS of historical evidence that this is true.

Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by logical7

 

maybe you dont get what i want to point out. Your will take Bible as authority but deny that it was complied by an agenda holding church?

I don't think you get what I'm trying to point out to you.

Everything Muhammad ever learned was originally from the church too before he ever wrote the Qu'ran.

The Qu'ran is nothing more than a twisted Bible. There is no unique story told by Muhammad. He took what he already knew and changed it.

That's why I say this is a go nowhere argument.

In the days of Jesus, all of them had 26 books of scripture already available to them to use as a reference and more were added later after Jesus' death and before Muhammad came along.

edit on 2-10-2012 by Deetermined because: (no reason given)

To be polite, i'l let you have that and ya now i get you better.
But then why would Muhammad(pbuh) twist bible and make getting followers harder? As if they dint have enough trouble from pagan meccans. And later annoy jews in medina and make them enemies?