Revisiting a Jim Morrison Conspiracy...

Originally posted by wigit
Sorry to Jim Morrison fans but although I like two or three of The Doors' songs (very much) I think Jim was just a bit of a poseur.

I think he saw just how naturally super cool Eric Burdon and The Animals were and he fancied a bit of that, just like probably every other 60s kid.

What books did he write that were genius? A couple of really good songs don't count. Sorry.

Thats just your opinion. With every genius, you will get
people saying they were not. Its your opinion the doors
had only a few good songs. Its my opinion that the doors
were one of the most origional bands to come out of the
60's. Not just one of the best musically, but also one of the
greatest performers in morrison.


As for the thread. Do i think he is dead, yes i do. Is the truth
being told, most prob not. Will we are know, i dont think so.

fantastic thread.

Never knew some of these facts.

I first heard the doors when I was about 14.

i didn't know who they were but loved their music - still do

i don't think jim was much of a singer, but so what?

he was a great front man.

Jagger can't sing for #, but when he is on stage, its HIS show.

great front man.

dylan cant sing either but he has written some fantastic songs.

it's not always all about musical ability, how well you can sing, or play guitar.

some people have something and Jim most certainly did.

reply to post by thegoatboy


I think morrison had a great voice. Technically nothing
special but the way his voice sounds, i really love. His
voice and the music fit perfectly.

Same with leonard cohen. Technically not great, but his
voice fits his music perfectly.

Originally posted by Erongaricuaro

Originally posted by okyouwin

I, like you, think he was primarily a poet. A great poet? I don't know.

"Come on baby, light my fire".

Light My Fire was written by Doors guitarist Robbie Kreiger, his first attempt at song writing - and look what he came up with!

It was to be the band's policy to credit the Doors, the whole band, for all original songs they recorded even though Morrison was the primary lyricist. It was Light My Fire that caused them to reverse that policy. Jim did not want to sing the line, "You know we couldn't get much higher" as it seemed to go against his personal anti-drug policy at that time, according to band keyboardist Ray Manzarek.

Morrison wanted to alter that line but Robbie insisted it remain as is, and as such Jim did not want to be associated with composing the song, though he agreed to perform it that way, so their own crediting policy changed over it. Later when they were to appear on the Ed Sullivan Show they were asked to change that line when they performed it but Morrison emphasized it instead, apparently reasoning that if he had to tolerate it as is then the rest of the world could as well.

edit on 2-10-2012 by Erongaricuaro because: (no reason given)

Thanks for setting me straight. I guess Jim and Ed Sullivan agreed on the line.

I wasn't aware Jim Morrison had an anti drug policy.

You can argue of whether he was over rated or great.

Genius ??

For what he did with the Doors??.Sorry but thats hard to support.The Doors werent entirely original cos The Velvet Underground were doing that whole taking rock towards the avant garde,that whole mergeing rock and art business.IMO,rarely works.

Yes they were dark but so were the Stones.The Doors were a great band,the first two albums were good,after that it went off but I love Morrison Hotel and L.A Woman.(does anyone else hear echos of the Happy Mondays in Peace Frog ???)

If you rate the Doors that high you have to remember whö truly were the doors.Jim Morrison and his backing band ?? Not a bit of it,musical talent/ability wise the rest of the band were in another league.

In music terms he's not much more that good,a great frontman.How was he as a writer or poet?? Music resonates with me,poetry doesnt. couldnt tell crap from class wi poetry.lol

A genius though is unique,operathng on a level way beyond their comtemporaries.It appears to come easy to a genius,they don't break the rules,they throw them öut and totally rewrite them on their own terms.

Jim Morrison no !!! Jimi Hendrix,oh yes absolutely !!!

Music wasnt Morrisons life or true love and its not hard to imagine him taking that route.If anyone could or did then he's the one !!

The slave comment i just took as him taunting and provoking the tuned in,freedom and peace generation cos they worship him for something he barely believed in and how false it all was to him.Didnt he have notions of controlling the crowd,believed they were his to dictate their emotion at his whim !!

The CIA agent,i've not really checked out yet but will do

I do not believe Jim faked his own death. If you bother to listen to interviews with Ray Manzerek, he laughs this off and explains that if he were to have done that, someone would have seen him by now. He was too famous.

reply to post by Jay-morris


Fascinating that you make a comparison between Jim Morrison and Leonard Cohen. For my part, I mostly listened Leonard Cohen (from Quebec) in my youth and many others.

However, I can not say that Jim Morrison and Leonard Cohen have the same voice but perhaps in a similar way to sing ... who picked us up in the guts.

Two great poets who express themselves in their own way ...

Personally, I would say that the singer Jim Morrison of The Doors died ... but the poet himself is truly dead? I do not think ...

Morrison and Cohen expressed in their songs, a poetry that express beyond time ...

Morrison was mainly influenced by the poems of Rimbaud, Jack Kerouac, at that time, and now I tend to believe he could continue the "traces" of his idols of poetry ...

We all have our own vision…

Surya ☼

PS Sorry for the poor translation because english is not my main language ...

"Break on through to the other side!"

Thank you for sharing - a Living Legend...whether still in body, or embodied in poetic word~

∞LOVE

mayallsoulsbefree∞

reply to post by neotech1neothink


I didn't really want to touch that subject about Bernett's story but perhaps I should, since it's been addressed a few times within this thread. Thing is, there is more holes in his story than swiss cheese. He claims that he was a close friend of Morrison. So easy to claim. If being an owner of a bar where Morrison used to go to have a beer makes you an acquaintance, fine, but a close friend...sure...

He claims that Jean De Breteuil left with Marianne Faithfull after Morrison's death but what most folks do not know is that De Breteuil and Pamela Courson were having an affair. Not Faithfull, Courson. Strike one.

The two guys that picked Morrison up to get him back to the apartment are still mystery guests...strike two.

He plays on the fact that Morrison was scared of needles and that he snorted heroin???? Say what ???

Alain Ronay was with Morrison every single day or just about when they both were in Paris. He doesn't back this story. Agnes Varda was called at 6:00AM on that dreadful day, by Pamela Courson. She has kept the silence ever since, never wanting to give an interview about it. Ronay on the other hand has played the card that Morrison had felt dizzy and weird all day on the 3rd of July. Backing up the story of a heart failure and not a fabricated story by a fame wannabee that claims that Morrison died in his bar...

When Morrison was buried at Pere Lachaise, just a few close friends were there, including Ronay and Varda. They were all there for a big 10 minutes. No prayers, no tears, just a few words from Varda. And off they went. Oh, his best buddy and close friend Sam Bernett wasn't there...

Now, if his few close friends were there at the burial, not crying, not praying, not even really caring, would that be a possibility that it was simply that Morrison wasn't there to start with. Chances are.

But good for Bernett, he'll get to sell some books. Snake oil, anyone ??

Originally posted by surya13
reply to post by Jay-morris

 

Fascinating that you make a comparison between Jim Morrison and Leonard Cohen. For my part, I mostly listened Leonard Cohen (from Quebec) in my youth and many others.

However, I can not say that Jim Morrison and Leonard Cohen have the same voice but perhaps in a similar way to sing ... who picked us up in the guts.

Two great poets who express themselves in their own way ...

Personally, I would say that the singer Jim Morrison of The Doors died ... but the poet himself is truly dead? I do not think ...

Morrison and Cohen expressed in their songs, a poetry that express beyond time ...

Morrison was mainly influenced by the poems of Rimbaud, Jack Kerouac, at that time, and now I tend to believe he could continue the "traces" of his idols of poetry ...

We all have our own vision…

Surya ☼

PS Sorry for the poor translation because english is not my main language ...

Im not saying their voices sound the same, i am saying that their voices suit the music. Thier voices are very different, but technically not great. Thats the point i was trying to get across.

I think Jim Morrison is alive and well. Living and working at a Krispy Kreme in Gary Indiana. His 1st shift supervisor is Michael Jackson, His fellow doughnut maker is Whitney Houston and the whole shebang is owned by Elvis . He's dead. And IMHO was'nt that much of a talent. Just like Jimmy Hendricks and a whole bunch more from that era. They simply knew that stage antics and bad publicity put arse's in the seats and sold albums.

Originally posted by openyourmind1262
I think Jim Morrison is alive and well. Living and working at a Krispy Kreme in Gary Indiana. His 1st shift supervisor is Michael Jackson, His fellow doughnut maker is Whitney Houston and the whole shebang is owned by Elvis . He's dead. And IMHO was'nt that much of a talent. Just like Jimmy Hendricks and a whole bunch more from that era. They simply knew that stage antics and bad publicity put arse's in the seats and sold albums.

Shame This thread has turned ibto a attention seeking thread.
This is not about how talented jim was. Its about if he is still alive.

Why do these people come into these threads. Oh, thats right, attention

reply to post by wigit


i used to have a copy of 'the lords and the new creatures' which is a book of poetry by jim morrison; it was pretty good.

"in the womb we are all blind cave fish".

reply to post by fastbob72


WOW!

banf on with the Happy Mondays there!

You're all a bunch of SLAVES! -

That was Miami 1969, when he said that to the audience. I believe that was the ONLY time he said this.

He followed it up, BTW, with LOTS more, so one should post it here to take it in the correct context.

"You're all a bunch of SLAVES! - You're all a bunch of f***ing idiots. You let people tell you what to do. How long are you gonna let them push you around? You love it! You like getting your face stuck in the S**T! Come on! What are you gonna do about it? What are you gonna do about it?"

reply to post by Jay-morris


I did say he was alive & well living in Gary Indiana. I guess i should have said, PUN INTENDED as some of us on here all all business all the time. Sorry if I disrupted your thread about a 2nd rate musician that died over 30 years ago. MY bad.

reply to post by openyourmind1262

Sorry if I disrupted your thread about a 2nd rate musician that died over 30 years ago. MY bad.

Openyourmind1262,

I just wonder why you would bother coming into a thread that you feel talks of a 2nd rate musician that died over 30 years ago...according to you...

The topic is indeed a conspiracy about Morrison being still alive or not. Your reply was not only off topic but sarcastic...i.e. Elvis & MJ...and you were called on it. And I agree.

The fact that he died over 30 (make that forty) years ago still hasn't got a thing to do with the topic at hand and makes it sound like you don't care about it...

So, I'll ask again, why bother?? Aren't there enough other boards and threads on ATS?

as a musician and bandmate speaking here: the Doors as a BAND were freaking awesome!!! and tight! every song was a journey and these guys were very technically GOOD in his band from kriegar to manzarek. and I think kriegar was like 18 playing that crazy style he has...with no training.
total originals

Morrison was a very good baritone singer and lyricist. had great upper register screaming when needed


as far as his death..I don't believe he faked it. but dam...its compelling to think about this:

1. he tried waking and shaking people up. calling people a bunch of slaves. hmmm.sounds like many on this board who have awaken from the matrix
2. he called himself the LIZARD KING. hmmmm. any david icke fans here?
3. He was in the music industry so probably ran into the so called illuminati force out there
4. his father...OH MY. do you all know the Gulf of Tonkin is a confirmed false flag???
5. his dad was born in rome. all roads lead to rome. the roman empire never ended we are all players in the game they created
6. morrison by these seeminly could have had access and control to fake his death and get way with it.
7. the interviews with his family seem very weird. did you see the most recent with his father? almost freaky like they don't want to admit they ever knew the guy past 17.almost like they are hiding stuff


George Stephen Morrison was a Rear Admiral and naval aviator in the United States Navy. Morrison was commander of the U.S. naval forces in the Gulf of Tonkin during the Gulf of Tonkin Incident of August 1964. Wikipedia
Born: January 7, 1919, Rome
Died: November 17, 2008, Coronado


yup, right within a few years after the gulf of tonkin incident Jim magically transforms from quiet writer to rock and roll poet with their 1st hit album

reply to post by SonoftheSun


Answer me this. Why would a second rate musician ( my opinion) I'm sure I aint the only one. Why would he fake his own death? It's not as if he transended anything. He was'nt an extremley rich 2nd rate singer. They put out very few albums. So I don't see the point of such an elaborate hoax such as faking a death.

Just a nice way to put a spin an yet another drug addicted talent killing themselves with drugs.He was'nt that big, he was'nt that good. So, and to address your statement about other threads for me to visit, yea there is. But as far as I know there's zero rules stateing I can't join this one. Other than you taking offense to my post. Did you think everybody was gonna agree with this OP? It's ATS for crying out loud.

Lyrics are telling, I think.

Here's my cursory view of one of my favorite Doors songs:

When I was back there in seminary school
There was a person there
Who put forth the proposition
That you can petition the Lord with prayer
Petition the lord with prayer
Petition the lord with prayer
You cannot petition the lord with prayer!

Can you give me sanctuary
I must find a place to hide
A place for me to hide
------ (a clue?)

Can you find me soft asylum
I can't make it anymore
The Man is at the door
------ (another?)

Peppermint, miniskirts, chocolate candy
Champion sax and a girl named Sandy
There's only four ways to get unraveled ----(?)
One is to sleep and the other is travel, da da
One is a bandit up in the hills
One is to love your neighbor 'till
His wife gets home

Catacombs ----(?)
Nursery bones
Winter women
Growing stones
Carrying babies
To the river

Streets and shoes
Avenues
Leather riders
Selling news -------------- (!)
The monk bought lunch-----(!)

Ha ha, he bought a little
Yes, he did
Woo!
This is the best part of the trip
This is the trip, the best part ---- (?)
I really like
What'd he say?
Yeah!
Yeah, right! ---- (?)
Pretty good, huh
Huh!
Yeah, I'm proud to be a part of this number --- (*)

Successful hills are here to stay
Everything must be this way
Gentle streets where people play
Welcome to the Soft Parade --- (**)

All our lives we sweat and save
Building for a shallow grave
Must be something else we say ---- ?
Somehow to defend this place
Everything must be this way
Everything must be this way, yeah ---- ?

The Soft Parade has now begun ---- !
Listen to the engines hum
People out to have some fun
A cobra on my left
Leopard on my right, yeah

The deer woman in a silk dress
Girls with beads around their necks
Kiss the hunter of the green vest
Who has wrestled before
With lions in the night

Out of sight! ---- ?
The lights are getting brighter
The radio is moaning
Calling to the dogs
There are still a few animals
Left out in the yard
But it's getting harder ---- ?
To describe sailors
To the underfed

Tropic corridor
Tropic treasure
What got us this far ---- ?
To this mild equator?

We need someone or something new ---- !
Something else to get us through, yeah, c'mon

Callin' on the dogs
Callin' on the dogs
Oh, it's gettin' harder
Callin' on the dogs
Callin' in the dogs
Callin' all the dogs
Callin' on the gods

You gotta meet me
Too late, baby
Slay a few animals --- ?
At the crossroads --- ?
Too late
All in the yard
But it's gettin' harder
By the crossroads
You gotta meet me
Oh, we're goin', we're goin great --- !
At the edge of town
Tropic corridor
Tropic treasure
Havin' a good time
Got to come along ----- ?
What got us this far
To this mild equator?
Outskirts of the city
You and I
We need someone new
Somethin' new
Somethin' else to get us through --- ?
Better bring your gun
Better bring your gun
Tropic corridor
Tropic treasure
We're gonna ride and have some fun

When all else fails
We can whip the horse's eyes
And make them sleep
And cry ----- (***)

- What do you think?
Without going too deep into the literary allusion (he WAS extremely well read) and symbols, I think there's a recurring theme of his plan, outlined.

- *- I think he's alluding to rock stars that died at 28-29ys old, from Robert Johnson (maybe the first!) on, "crossroads!"

- **- Away from the rock star life to a quiet one?

- ***- the reaction of the fans?

Anyway, I think it's pretty cool that even a cursory glance at the lyric points to a getaway plan, even if he doesn't come right out and say it. On the other hand, sometimes clues come without conscious control, in the case of an impending event. Time and space are inventions of men, and are only laws to the extent that we accept them, y'know?

Cobra on my left
Leopard on my right!

I was planning on ending with that, it being suitably dramatic and so, so Morrison; but just a quick search brought so much more information:

Cobra on my left Leopard on my right

Leading through to the Dionysian angle (he was enamored by the Greek God statues, and the pose that stretched out and tilted the neck to the side, you can see it in his own pose-ings for photos, and in an interview I read, with Manzarek or Krieger) which if you read through this link:

Dionysus - wiki

You'll find: "His festivals were the driving force behind the development of Greek theatre. He is an example of a dying god."
Dying god?