City of Toronto Workers Destroy Free Community Food Garden Amid Growing Food Crisis, page 4

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reply posted on 1-10-2012 @ 05:02 PM by jude11

Originally posted by seamus

Originally posted by dontreally
reply to post by dainoyfb

lol, we have no growing food crisis, I have no idea what the OP meant by that.

But that doesn't mean a food crisis isn't on the horizon. For everyone on our wonderful North American continent.
Where the hell do you live? Mars? Canned tuna has gone up almost 20 cents in the last 3 months here in Tennessee. That's nearly a 30% increase! Hell, even bottled soda's gone up 25% in the last 3 weeks. Macaroni and cheese, you know, the cheap kind? Not so cheap anymore!

Pull your head out of the sand, buddy.

I buy bulk for my shop. Here's what I've experienced in the last 3 Months:

Beef Round: from 8.80kg to 9.90kg
Mozza Cheese blocks 2.4 kg 19.99 to 22.99
Chicken breasts 4kg box frozen 26.99 to 29.99

Many more but you get the point.

Peace

reply posted on 1-10-2012 @ 08:19 PM by ~widowmaker~

cry cry cry, just go buy some spray paint and paintball guns and have at it at city hall ^^

reply posted on 1-10-2012 @ 08:50 PM by jude11

Originally posted by ~widowmaker~
cry cry cry, just go buy some spray paint and paintball guns and have at it at city hall ^^

So you want people to fight for YOUR rights?
Typical coward approach.

reply posted on 1-10-2012 @ 09:47 PM by doubtit

There's something odd about this story. Why would city of Toronto workers go and rip up a garden at Queen's park? The park is owned by U of T and leased to the Ontario government.

en.wikipedia.org...

The park itself is technically owned by the University of Toronto, but the property was leased to the Government of Ontario in 1859 for a period of 999 years, set to expire in 2858

I suspect there's some information that's not being shared here...

reply posted on 1-10-2012 @ 09:55 PM by garygnu

Maybe the Organic growers should go onto Public property and tear up local government flower gardens in retaliation. The people already own the public lands so tearing it up is within their rights.

reply posted on 1-10-2012 @ 11:14 PM by thebtheb

I am WAY for growing food anywhere we can, and get angry when they rip people's gardens that they planted on their own lawns, etc. But I live in Toronto and Queen's Park is not a great place to plant food. There are all kinds of legal places in Toronto to do this. The organization concerned planted food there knowing full well they were not supposed to. It's one thing to gain our freedom from ridiculous laws, it's another to taunt the law, force your hand on them and then cry "bad policemen" afterwards.

If people want such gardens, they have to work WITH cities and police and infrastructures, not disregard them completely.

reply posted on 1-10-2012 @ 11:20 PM by thebtheb

Originally posted by jude11

Originally posted by juniperberry
Well, first of all, if they had worked WITH the city instead of just squatting on public land, things could have worked out.

Since it IS city owned land, there are requirements to get permits and stuff. Vancouver has a plethora of plots set up by non-profits and community groups who have worked WITH the city to organize things.

Even Vancouver City Hall is donating their own lawn to set up garden plots.

Seriously, instead of being obnoxious about it, the squatters could have just asked.

It's the Canadian thing to do after all.

I was waiting for you. And there you are.

Always someone...

Looking for brownie points from city council perhaps?

And here I am too. I LOVE the idea of everyone growing food. But it's true - people can't expect officials, government, police to just let them do whatever they want, whenever they want. If people want to take back their freedom, they have to realize that it's a matter of everyone working together, not just a childish notion of "screw the elites."

reply posted on 1-10-2012 @ 11:24 PM by thebtheb

Originally posted by jude11
reply to post by juniperberry

Why is everyone so bound and determined to do whatever the heck they want whenever they want?

Because if what we do doesn't hurt anyone...it's our right,

And as citizens of this planet, we should never have to ask permission to exercise our rights.

Did I miss something?

Peace

Yes, you did miss something - that you're not the only ones with rights. Community means community, not "whatever one group wants."

reply posted on 2-10-2012 @ 01:08 AM by Wrabbit2000

I'm not sure quite why anyone is thinking the drought is past tense at all, let alone somehow reversed. I'm here to say the drought in the United States is here to stay for awhile and it's across the entire "Heartland" region. The breadbasket of the world. as it was once called.

....and for those who would say they had no right? Hey, I agree with that personally............MONTHS AGO. However, to sit there like total jerks and watch these people work this little plot of land and work the garden to A DAY BEFORE HARVEST...then destroy it all, should see every last one of the sorry losers booted from office at the very next election they have there.

It's not what they did. It's when and HOW they did it. It was cruel beyond measure and totally unforgivable in what is, yes indeed, a very serious and long term drought crisis across the whole country.

edit on 2-10-2012 by Wrabbit2000 because: minor correction

reply posted on 2-10-2012 @ 03:11 AM by jaxnmarko

reply to post by jude11

I think its a shame, but also, as we all know beurocrats and laws are nuts and everywhere, the people should have KNOWN BETTER than to not check for regulations about this..... and avoid the heartache after all that work. Perhaps they should work on getting the law changed and THEN grow food. Not to put them down at all, just to point out that the SYSTEM controls our lives, so get IN the System or help change it in other ways so it actually makes sense instead of nonsense. Unfortunately, these people were asking for trouble just by doing something sensible and logical. Sad.

reply posted on 2-10-2012 @ 06:27 AM by looneylupinsrevenge

Originally posted by jaxnmarko
reply to post by jude11

I think its a shame, but also, as we all know beurocrats and laws are nuts and everywhere, the people should have KNOWN BETTER than to not check for regulations about this..... and avoid the heartache after all that work. Perhaps they should work on getting the law changed and THEN grow food. Not to put them down at all, just to point out that the SYSTEM controls our lives, so get IN the System or help change it in other ways so it actually makes sense instead of nonsense. Unfortunately, these people were asking for trouble just by doing something sensible and logical. Sad.

Since when did it become "Sensible and Logical" to wantonly break laws and "deface/destroy" public property?

reply posted on 2-10-2012 @ 07:34 AM by looneylupinsrevenge

Originally posted by garygnu
Maybe the Organic growers should go onto Public property and tear up local government flower gardens in retaliation. The people already own the public lands so tearing it up is within their rights.

But it's not their right, not in the least! Public lands are designed and designated for the recreational enjoyment of the public... Not for growing food, or any other personalized activity (including tearing up the grass and flowers). What makes it all the more damming for the growers is that there are already (approximately) 4500 plots of land set aside within the city that allow for community gardens.

How many community gardens are there in Toronto?
Toronto now boasts over 100 community gardens, plus 12 municipal allotment gardens. The total number of individual plots probably totals well over 4500. There are new gardens starting up all of the time and we don’t know all of them.

So why did they feel the need to try and flaunt the law this way? It's clear Toronto as a whole is quite excepting of community gardens. They could have merely asked for permission and possibly would have been granted it, if not in that exact location then another one close by. On the City of Toronto's own website they state quite clearly that there is a (fairly simple) selection process that needs to be completed before any site can be used as a community garden. It even goes so far as to say that once a garden is approved it may even receive help from the city of Toronto should resources (time and materials) be available. In other words, if the group had gotten permission they would have had the full support and backing of the city throughout their entire growing season. The full guidelines are provided in the "City of Toronto" links below.

So again why thumb your nose at the law when it seems like the law is trying to work with people to set these things up? The more I look into this, the more it looks like the organizers who set up this garden were trying to either "send a message" to the City of Toronto (what that message is, I am not sure) or trying to stir up a reaction from the city (on that one they succeeded, though maybe not the one they were looking for, or maybe it was...I'm really not sure anymore).

So while I can't condone the way Toronto went about getting rid of the garden and the food it produced (since that food would have helped out food banks, community kitchens, and school programs) I also can't fault them for getting rid of it since the garden was in clear violation of the city ordinance pertaining to Community Gardens.

Food Share Toronto
Toronto Community Garden Network
City of Toronto - Community Gardens FAQ
City of Toronto - Community Garden Proposal Guidelines
City of Toronto - Community Gardens - Implementation Process

edit on 2-10-2012 by looneylupinsrevenge because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 2-10-2012 @ 08:28 AM by looneylupinsrevenge

Originally posted by boncho

Originally posted by juniperberry
Well, first of all, if they had worked WITH the city instead of just squatting on public land, things could have worked out.

Since it IS city owned land, there are requirements to get permits and stuff. Vancouver has a plethora of plots set up by non-profits and community groups who have worked WITH the city to organize things.

Even Vancouver City Hall is donating their own lawn to set up garden plots.

Seriously, instead of being obnoxious about it, the squatters could have just asked.

It's the Canadian thing to do after all.

The city could have resolved this in a much more diplomatic manner. Waiting until the day before harvest just seems like they want to irritate the people involved.

If it wasn't a legal garden, they should have made an effort to turn it into one or at least ban that location next year before people come and plant there.

If it's something positive for the community I don't see why they shouldn't at least (bare minimum) be accommodating.

How do we know the city didn't try reaching out to these people prior to destroying the garden? Perhaps Multiple times even. Sure the original article makes no mention of it, but neither does the original article mention that there is a fairly simple set of guidelines setup, that had they been followed the gardeners would have had permission to grow there (or somewhere near by) and none of this would have happened. Nor does it mention that the city is willing to help out community gardens with planning, materials, and even man power (the latter two are dependant upon availability of course). I guess the author of the article was to busy condemning the city to actually research who was really at fault in this situation.

edit on 2-10-2012 by looneylupinsrevenge because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 2-10-2012 @ 12:05 PM by Helmkat

I am all for home grown food.

I am all for people eating right.

I am for people doing as the law allows on their own property.

That being said, the gardeners were clearly in the wrong here. City should of yanked it all out as soon as it went in. Public land belongs to -everyone- and tearing it up to plant a garden without permission is not cool.

reply posted on 2-10-2012 @ 01:11 PM by something wicked

Originally posted by jude11

Originally posted by dontreally
reply to post by dainoyfb

lol, we have no growing food crisis, I have no idea what the OP meant by that.

But that doesn't mean a food crisis isn't on the horizon. For everyone on our wonderful North American continent.

The food crisis they are mentioning would be Global I believe. The US with the failed crops this year contributes to it and Canada having a crappy growing season as well.

We are being warned about shortages and rising prices at the super markets are already starting.

Peace

Forgive me, but if this is public (government owned) land that the produce is grown on, and someone eats it and gets ill/dies, the government is liable......... am I missing something as to why the government would want to cover themselves against that risk?

reply posted on 2-10-2012 @ 01:51 PM by awake1234

stupid - thought there was something a little more reasonable about canada - perhaps the proximity to the u.s. has affected its collective thought processes...
anyways - homegrown!!!

∞LOVE∞

mayallsoulsbefree*

reply posted on 3-10-2012 @ 10:13 PM by ~widowmaker~

reply to post by jude11

So you want people to fight for YOUR rights?
Typical coward approach.

i dont even get this statement, its not my garden, dont care. people cry and do nothing, i was giving a creative idea, for those that are crying to go have some fun. 8o) and i do plenty of my own covert "fun" all on my own thank you.

reply posted on 3-10-2012 @ 11:48 PM by jude11

Originally posted by ~widowmaker~
reply to post by jude11

So you want people to fight for YOUR rights?
Typical coward approach.

i dont even get this statement, its not my garden, dont care. people cry and do nothing, i was giving a creative idea, for those that are crying to go have some fun. 8o) and i do plenty of my own covert "fun" all on my own thank you.

Sorry, but if I have to explain it to you, you've just proven my point.

Peace

reply posted on 3-10-2012 @ 11:50 PM by jude11

Originally posted by something wicked

Originally posted by jude11

Originally posted by dontreally
reply to post by dainoyfb

lol, we have no growing food crisis, I have no idea what the OP meant by that.

But that doesn't mean a food crisis isn't on the horizon. For everyone on our wonderful North American continent.

The food crisis they are mentioning would be Global I believe. The US with the failed crops this year contributes to it and Canada having a crappy growing season as well.

We are being warned about shortages and rising prices at the super markets are already starting.

Peace

Forgive me, but if this is public (government owned) land that the produce is grown on, and someone eats it and gets ill/dies, the government is liable......... am I missing something as to why the government would want to cover themselves against that risk?

I'm pretty sure that's not the reasoning behind this or they would have cited this point.

Besides, when is the last time you have heard of someone dieing of a freshly picked carrot?

Peace

reply posted on 3-10-2012 @ 11:52 PM by jude11

Originally posted by Helmkat
I am all for home grown food.

I am all for people eating right.

I am for people doing as the law allows on their own property.

That being said, the gardeners were clearly in the wrong here. City should of yanked it all out as soon as it went in. Public land belongs to -everyone- and tearing it up to plant a garden without permission is not cool.

It belongs to everyone and everyone had access to it. Under the Govt. rule, no one has access to it but the Govt. and they are making the decision for everyone without asking anyone.

Peace

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