My odd journey into astronaut deaths.

Originally posted by TeslaandLyne
Well what about these 500 people or so, might their causes of death if by cancer
be caused by outer space radiation.

Which 500 people do you mean?
There was nothing mentioned about 500 people dying from cancer.

reply to post by Soylent Green Is People

if by cancer

More than 500 people went into space according to the research.
I think there is a radiation cover up.

Originally posted by TeslaandLyne
reply to post by Soylent Green Is People

 

if by cancer

More than 500 people went into space according to the research.
I think there is a radiation cover up.

Yeah -- but how many of those 500 people got cancer?

Obviously, being subjected to cosmic rays while in space could cause someone to have a greater risk of getting cancer later in life (although they may never develop cancer)...

...HOWEVER, I wouldn't say that there is necessarily is a cover-up, considering that it is a well-known and openly-discussed fact (even openly-discussed by NASA) that astronauts who spend some time in space will probably run a greater risk of getting some cancers in their lifetimes.

Where is the evidence of a cover-up?

reply to post by watchitburn




Umm is cremation that popular? Or did they all promise they'd be cremated just in case any things can be learned from their bodies by unsuspecting countries or what have you. I wonder if they monitored all them over time to see any changes in body or mind.

Anyway interesting.

reply to post by Soylent Green Is People

Where is the evidence of a cover-up?

Not yet but people might be working on it.
First off would be the Moon Walkers.

If there is no evidence of cancer then did they walk on the Moon at all.

Originally posted by TeslaandLyne
Not yet but people might be working on it.
First off would be the Moon Walkers.

If there is no evidence of cancer then did they walk on the Moon at all.

First of all, being an Apollo astronaut (and being subjected to cosmic radiation during their missions) does not mean they WILL develop cancer. It just means they have a greater risk of developing cancer sometime during their lives.

Having said that (and secondly), two Apollo astronauts have died of cancer -- Jack Swigert and Alan Shepard. Swigert never walked on the moon (he was part of Apollo 13), but he spent a long time in space, traveling to the moon and circling the moon once. Shepard walked on the Moon as part of Apollo 14.

That's not to say that their cancers were necessarily a DIRECT result of them going to the moon, but it certainly could be.

Thirdly, NASA is not covering up the fact that cosmic radiation can possibly increase cancer risks. Please show me why you say there may be a cover-up.

Below is an article from NASA about their studies into the possible links between cosmic radiation and cancer:

science.nasa.gov...

reply to post by TeslaandLyne


Soylent green is correct.

No one, has claimed being in space does not increase the risk for cancer. It would be kind of absurd to try anyway. Space is known to subject people to increased levels of radiation.

I would say it is similar to smoking or working around radar dishes. Lot's of people can do both their whole lives and be fine. But they should not be surprised if they do get cancer.

Interesting thread and thanks for your contribution op has actually caught my full attention which is very rare these days on ATS so SF for you to spend as you see fit I agree that here is a massive amount we don't know about the Space Race or the off the books missions. I do believe there is a lot of dead Russians and Chinese floating around in the bleakness of space

reply to post by On the level


I'm glad you found it interesting.

Please feel free to share any further information you come across here.

reply to post by Soylent Green Is People


Have you seen radiation numbers for levels in the atmosphere and Moon.
Are the numbers published anywhere that you understood to be safe.

Aren't sensitive electronics given radiation hardening for high level and outer
space missions.

I think NASA denies any harmfully radiation outside the van Allen belts and
I think that is not the case.

reply to post by watchitburn


I think the outer space radiation is very dangerous.
Get Russia to send another dog to the Moon and this time tell us how long
before things went wrong.
How long can you look at the core.. like some old movie .. outside the Earth
for days on end can't be healthy. Cancer takes time to detect but radiation
sickness I must be talking about. If the dog to the Moon suffered no radiation
sickness then I'd say NASA had every right to go to the Moon.
The astronauts did not suffer any radiation sickness.
But I want a test Earth life form to make the trip and see what happens.
Ed: That would be too much like prying into private affairs to look for
cancer deaths. I think the only chance for the Moon Landing Conspiracy
to have a case might be the radiation sickness chances.
To me there were any number of reasons not to go but is passing the
radiation test the only one.

reply to post by TeslaandLyne

First of all, one reason that they harden sensitive equipment for use in space is because that equipment may be in space for a long time, and the added time adds to the dangers of exposure. Apollo missions lasted only between 8 and 12 days. That relatively short amount of time exposed to the radiation was a factor in keepingthe astronaut's radiation exposure as minimal as possible. A flight to Mars (for example) that would last for many months would not be possible using the same physical protection used by Apollo.

As for the Apollo missions, studies and reports have been done on the effects of radiation on the Apollo astronauts. Basically radiation levels were low:

Biomedical Results of Apollo, Section II, Chapter 3 -- Radiation Protection and Instrumentation

Excerpt:

Results and Discussion

Average radiation doses were computed for each mission (table 2) see below. Individual readings varied approximately 20 percent from the average because of differences in the shielding effectiveness of various parts of the Apollo spacecraft as well as differences in duties, movements, and locations of crewmen. Doses to blood-forming organs were approximately 40 percent lower than the values measured at the body surface. In comparison with the doses actually received, the maximum operational dose (MOD) limit for each of the Apollo missions was set at 400 rads (X-ray equivalent) to skin and 50 rads to the blood-forming organs.

Radiation doses measured during Apollo were significantly lower than the yearly average of 5 rem set by the U.S. Atomic Energy Commission for workers who use radioactive materials in factories and institutions across the United States. Thus, radiation was not an operational problem during the Apollo Program. Doses received by the crewmen of Apollo missions 7 through 17 were small because no major solar-particle events occurred during those missions.

Table 2 mentioned in the excerpt above:




As indicated by that table, Apollo 14 had the highest skin dose radiation of any Apollo mission. It is thought that the reason may partly be because the trajectory of Apollo 14 took it through a larger portion of the trapped radiation belts, according to the Apollo 14 Mission Report, of which I provided an excerpt below:

10.2.5 Radiation
...The total radiation dose for each crewman was approximately 1.15 rads to the skin and 0.6 rad at a 5centimeter tissue depth. These doses are the largest observed on any Apollo mission; however, they are well below the threshold of detectable medical effects. The magnitudes of the radiation doses were apparently the result of two factors: (1) The translunar injection trajectory lay closer to the plane of the geomagnetic equator than that of previous flights and, therefore, the spacecraft traveled through the heart of the trapped radiation belts. (2) The space radiation background was greater than previously experienced. Whole-body gamma spectroscopy was also performed postflight on the crew and indicated no cosmic ray induced radioactivity.

Source: Apollo 14 Mission Report - Chapter 10, Biomedical Evaluation

Here is a link to all of the Apollo Mission reports. Each report includes a chapter on the biomedical evaluation of the astronauts, including radiation exposure:

Apollo Mission Reports


So there have been many studies published on the amount of radiation it is estimated that the Apollo astronauts received. However, studies are still being conducted in an attempt to understand the exact effects of cosmic radiation on humans.

But the bottom line is that the Apollo missions were relatively short, and they did not experience a major solar event, so radiation exposure -- while greater than normal human exposure -- was not anywhere near levels that are necessarily lethal.

Originally posted by BlasteR
reply to post by watchitburn

 

Very cool thread. Thanks!

I wasn't sure if you had heard about this one.. This would classify under classified military space programs if it is true.

Some believe that the Soviets tried to send a manned mission to the moon only to have it fail - prior to Apollo 11.

This is a link with some interesting info about the Russians (this is an article from 1975 but still good)
From: "Space World Magazine" January 1975 issue

I recently watched an episode of a show called "Dark Matters - Twisted but true" that you would probably find really interesting. (Segment 15:30 - 31:40)

In short, two Italian HAM radio operators believed they were recieving radio chatter in Russian from space - this would have occurred prior to Apollo 11. This one is still a big mystery but it is suspected to be related to classified Soviet space programs.

Perhaps the soviets, fearing they would be beaten by the Americans, sent men to the moon but did not tell the world - fearing that the mission could be premature and possibly doomed to failure. They wouldn't have wanted the world to know that they had failed. It's one theory anyway.

-ChriS

Segment 15:30 Zond 6 November 1968 was a fake manned mission around the Moon

Originally posted by Ove38

...Segment 15:30 Zond 6 November 1968 was a fake manned mission around the Moon

Maybe I missed it, but I don't think Zond 6 was mentioned in that "Dark Matters" segment about the Judica-Cordiglia brothers.

Besides, I don't think the timing of Zond 6 corresponds to the time the brothers were doing their listening. By 1968, the brothers had stopped being able to pick up the soviet space flight radio signals.

Also, can you please provide links to any claims that Zond 6 was "fake"? I couldn't find anything regrading the idea that the mission was fake. I know Zond 6 (which was NOT manned, but still carried a biological payload for test purposes) had decompression issues, but I think that came after it successfully circled the moon.

Due to the decompression, the re-entry failed and most of the payload was lost. The Soviets did recover some of the photos of the moon, which they published, along with the false assertion that the mission was 100% successful.


Having said that, it would not surprise me if there were cosmonauts lost in space that we never heard about.

Originally posted by Soylent Green Is People

Originally posted by Ove38

...Segment 15:30 Zond 6 November 1968 was a fake manned mission around the Moon

Maybe I missed it, but I don't think Zond 6 was mentioned in that "Dark Matters" segment about the Judica-Cordiglia brothers.

Besides, I don't think the timing of Zond 6 corresponds to the time the brothers were doing their listening. By 1968, the brothers had stopped being able to pick up the soviet space flight radio signals.

Also, can you please provide links to any claims that Zond 6 was "fake"? I couldn't find anything regrading the idea that the mission was fake. I know Zond 6 (which was NOT manned, but still carried a biological payload for test purposes) had decompression issues, but I think that came after it successfully circled the moon.

Due to the decompression, the re-entry failed and most of the payload was lost. The Soviets did recover some of the photos of the moon, which they published, along with the false assertion that the mission was 100% successful.


Having said that, it would not surprise me if there were cosmonauts lost in space that we never heard about.

edit on 10/3/2012 by Soylent Green Is People because: (no reason given)

Sorry, I meant Segment 30:00

Originally posted by Ove38

Sorry, I meant Segment 30:00

Thanks. I heard that part now.

However, I don't see the significance. The Soviets never tried to contend that Zond 6 had any humans on board. They claimed it was unmanned all along. So they couldn't have been trying to fool people into thinking there were people on board.

Originally posted by Soylent Green Is People

Originally posted by Ove38

Sorry, I meant Segment 30:00

Thanks. I heard that part now.

However, I don't see the significance. The Soviets never tried to contend that Zond 6 had any humans on board. They claimed it was unmanned all along. So they couldn't have been trying to fool people into thinking there were people on board.

Didn't NASA use excely the same metode on Apollo 8 ? to make us believe there were people flying around the moon in 1968 ?

www.youtube.com...

reply to post by Ove38


No.

Wrong again. Wrong as usual. Apollo 8 flew three men around the Moon. I don't know why you hate this idea so much, but deal with it and stop libeling good people who accomplished an extraordinary thing.

Furthermore, Here is a Soviet report on radiation measurements taken by the successful Zond 5 & 7 missions around the Moon. Note that Zond was a stripped-down Soyuz intended for eventual manned circumlunar flight.

Conclusion

The comparison of the dosage evaluations with the permissible values allows the conclusion that, should no solar flares occurs (sic), seven-day flights along the trajectories of Zond5 and 7 probes are safe from the radiation point of view.

Originally posted by Ove38
Didn't NASA use excely the same metode on Apollo 8 ? to make us believe there were people flying around the moon in 1968 ?

www.youtube.com...

By the way, at least some of that video is actually from Apollo 9, not Apollo 8.

When the YouTube uploader is claiming that we shouldn't be able to see the CM in the "visor" of the astronaut between :57 and 1:03 because Apollo 8 had no Lunar module, he was actually showing video of Apollo 9, which DID have a lunar module (and the view of the CM was NOT a reflection in an astronaut's visor, but instead it was a view out the LM's window).

So, to summaruize:
That is Apollo 9, NOT Apollo 8.
And that's a window, NOT a visor.

Which also means the YouTuber's argument of "how can we see this orbital view of the CM if there was no LM on Apollo 8" is a baseless claim, considering the video is from Apollo 9.

As usual, these Hoax believers who make YouTube videos such as the one you linked are either:

1. Intentionally trying to mislead, or
2. Are just ignorant to the facts.


Here is a link to the Apollo 9 clip (the first video -- although the YouTuber's version is "mirrored"):
spaceflight.nasa.gov...

reply to post by watchitburn


Well now it seems to me that these are not natural deaths but murders so what is it they saw and were not allowed to tell anyone, well I guess we'll never know now as their secrets have gone to their graves or whereever.