Is the Spirit in error, or the person?

reply to post by AfterInfinity


So sorry! I just wondered what I missed.

NM *frown*

My bad.

reply to post by wildtimes


I could have bee a little nicer, but I was irritated because I had this incredibly awesome moment of de ja vu the other day and I couldn't find the thread where it had happened.

However, I was being honest when i say that keeping track of everyone's posts is a huge waste of time, thread after thread after thread. You may as well ask me to recall the exact response of someone who spoke to me over two months ago.

reply to post by AfterInfinity

However, I was being honest when i say that keeping track of everyone's posts is a huge waste of time, thread after thread after thread. You may as well ask me to recall the exact response of someone who spoke to me over two months ago.

LOL!
Okay, then, I see your position!
For my part, I "file" everything someone writes/speaks to me; but perhaps that's just the diff between men and women. Waste of time??? No, nono, AI. When what you have is penpals (or, rather, correspondents), should you not pay attention to what they're saying?

Maybe not.
Totally OT here.

Sorry, jhill.

reply to post by wildtimes

For my part, I "file" everything someone writes/speaks to me; but perhaps that's just the diff between men and women. Waste of time??? No, nono, AI. When what you have is penpals (or, rather, correspondents), should you not pay attention to what they're saying?

Maybe not, I record all, and I am male.

reply to post by jhill76


Anyway, that is all beside the point. You asked if the spirit is in error, or the person...my answer is that for all the answers spirit can give you, you are only able to understand it so far as you can relate to it.

And how do we relate to things? The human way. And the spirit is not human, we are simply a human expression of it. Which means our minds are limited as to how well we can absorb the voice of spirit. We are in error, even when we think we're not.

I can't explain it anymore than that, as much as I'd like to. It gets frustrating, because everyone is convinced, "Oh, I know Spirit." No, you don't. You only understand a small part of it. Just because you know algebra does not make you an expert in math.

It's a placebo effect. You are given a meaning, you are instructed to agree with it, you are told how to find it, then you are told you are experiencing it. You could have been experencing something else the whole time, but because you were told, "Oh, it's THIS" and yu believe it, so you have redefined something that isn't what you were told it is, but now it is, in YOUR mind. That doesn't make you right, it makes you misguided.

Spirtuality will not come from man. You can learn ways of finding it, but man cannot tell you if you've found it or not. Nor will books give it to you. Everything you read, everything you are told, is a map. Some ways lead you closer, some ways lead you further away. But nothing man-made or man-communicated will give you a passport to spirituality. It will only point the way to THEIR spirituality.

And no matter what, no one facet of the diamond of spirit is right or wrong. Some are more self-serving than others, or more service-to-others. So just because yours works best for you, doesn't mean it works best for others. There is more than one window, more than one mountaintop to ascend from.

This isn't just to Jhill. This is to everyone reading the thread.

reply to post by AfterInfinity

And how do we relate to things? The human way. And the spirit is not human, we are simply a human expression of it. Which means our minds are limited as to how well we can absorb the voice of spirit. We are in error, even when we think we're not.

And, I know of this to be true. I am not asking for my own self, but for others to realize this by coming up with the answer within themselves, thus why I pose it as a question, and not open the thread giving the answer.

reply to post by jhill76


Clever, clever... making them think for themselves. But that is often the easiest way of coming by the wrong answer, and especially of convincing ourselves it's the right answer. Because otherwise, we get the idea that it's useless, that there is no answer...

We like things handed to us, so we don't have to fight for the facts. But that's what makes them worthwhile. And in any case...spirituality is more perspective than anything else. It's all a circle.

reply to post by AfterInfinity

But that is often the easiest way of coming by the wrong answer, and especially of convincing ourselves it's the right answer. Because otherwise, we get the idea that it's useless, that there is no answer...

True. But posters like yourself, it gives them all a small piece of the puzzle. Many will never get all of the answers by one thread, but it will lead them down a path of thinking and researching.

Originally posted by jhill76
I see time and time again, when asked how do they know. They will claim the Spirit leads me to these truths. If this is the case, then why is there so many divisions in Christianity if all of these people are led by the Spirit? Or, even take ATS as an example. Why are there so many debates on faith, if everyone is led by the same Holy Spirit?

As it stands, the Spirit of God does not change, so why would said Spirit give one person one interpretation, and another a different one?

If the Holy Spirit is not in error, then it must be concluded that the person is in error.

So, the main question is, why does one person say when led via the Spirit, their word is true over another's?

The whole concept of spirit stems from the individual persons. Spirit, nor faith are based in solid reality. They are products of the individual visions and fantasy beliefs. Such are not part of reality speaking nor truth seeking.

Religion these days is the throwback from two sources: One being the questions on how did the Universe and this ourselves come into being, which generally gets into the Creator concept for God. Two being the much more recent times of the gods of Sumeria and their off world knowledge and genetic experiments on homo-erect elements of Earth life.

The latter is the roots of what most of the Abraham linked religions consider as their motivations for speaking of god. The details of truth have been decimated by time and human errors of recounting the history for what happened.

Using human spirit often results in pure disasters due to too much self aggrandization. Spirit often is the roots of sports and we have seen some major disasters of school spirit in the case of Penn State's push to keep themselves elevated above the law with the issues of the school's cover up on the Jerry Sandusky sex abuse case. Not far removed was the like methods of the Catholic Priest's abuses of Young Boys, and all it couched on those following their own spirit interpretations.

The better thing is stick to areas that don't get into self aggrandization linked issues of the like issues of large group aggrandization. Stick to areas linked close to reality, linked with supportable history, and not those associated with fantasy. Each has a duty to be benevolent to each other, be good stewards of all, and neither of these concepts are served with Spirit and Faith. The drug of religion is this spirit, like an alcohol's effect on the brain, that alters the perceptions of reality. It hasn't worked well for drunk driving, running school spirit for sex abuse at Penn. State, or Vatican Priests that become sexual offenders.

Spirit and Faith too easily becomes the offense of truth, the excuse to self aggrandize self and group, and the method used to ignore stewardship toward others, benevolent ideas, and ignoring duty to Government, Community, and society using reality. imho


Misplaced ideals formed of Spirit and Faith are subject to gross human error leading to a train wreck for society, and of world community in massive proportion. For the Corrupt "Powers that Be", it contains the formula to have people sit on their hands and pray to some fantasy for relief, making them more able to control. A relieve never comes and matters worsen, when good stewardship and benevolence to others, applied each day, with reality based activity in Govt and Community would have severed as the better solution providing a reality for humankind.

reply to post by MagnumOpus

The whole concept of spirit stems from the individual persons. Spirit, nor faith are based in solid reality. They are products of the individual visions and fantasy beliefs.

That is what your science teaches you. 200 years ago, they would have said the same of quarks. 1000 years ago, we knew the earth was flat. 500 years ago, we knew the Sun revolved around the Earth. Imagine what we'll know in another 500 years?

Point being, science is still young. Don't expect it to have all the answers right away, or even to be right the first time. When we have traveled to distant galaxies and mastered teleportation technology, when we have succeeded in transplanting memories and personalities into machinery and can teach technology to think as well as we do - when we have done all this, that is when you can suggest that we've found all the answers.

Such are not part of reality speaking nor truth seeking.

Truth is merely a perspective. As such, spirituality plays an enormous role in how we see the world, and hence, it is an innate part of perspective. Which makes it an innate part of truth.

The drug of religion is this spirit, like an alcohol's effect on the brain, that alters the perceptions of reality. It hasn't worked well for drunk driving, running school spirit for sex abuse at Penn. State, or Vatican Priests that become sexual offenders.

My, Granny, what a broad brush you have there!

You see our expression of it. Do not even begin to think that spirit is restricted to what we do with it. Our imagination does not define spirit. Rather, our imagination resists spirit because of our fear. We've gone too long in this survival game; we need to transition to the coexistence game. We're not doing so well at it, and spirituality is not to blame. Our resistance is to blame.

Spirit and Faith too easily becomes the offense of truth, the excuse to self aggrandize self and group, and the method used to ignore stewardship toward others, benevolent ideas, and ignoring duty to Government, Community, and society using reality. imho

Just because we use it as a crutch, does not mean it cannot become our wings.

Misplaced ideals formed of Spirit and Faith are subject to gross human error leading to a train wreck for society, and of world community in massive proportion.

Actually, if you want something to blame, blame our vanity - and our temptation to give into it. As you say, our society and government has fed itself its own disease. Every conspiracy, every conditioning program meant to control society, every game played by the government among its own politicians, and even the relations betwen nations worldwide are all based around vanity. Help us help you help us. So don't blame spirituality...if we'd had an honest relationship with the higher consciousness within us, we would have known by now. We would have recognized our mistake. More to the point, we would have been so sickened that we would have changed by now.

For the Corrupt "Powers that Be", it contains the formula to have people sit on their hands and pray to some fantasy for relief, making them more able to control. A relieve never comes and matters worsen, when good stewardship and benevolence to others, applied each day, with reality based activity in Govt and Community would have severed as the better solution providing a reality for humankind.

Again, that's OUR expression of it. It exists independently of us, but we can still redefine the idea in our minds and use that redefinition to our advantage, which is exactly what we've done. And because, in the process, we've been taught to focus entirely on the material world and our physical senses, it might take a hell of an intervention to wake us up again.

It's not the fault of spirit. It's the fault of vanity - a symptom of lack of spirit, in the capacity that I'm talking about. We lack humility. It's the fault of us being so absorbed in our physical being that we forget there's even more to be discovered.

Spirit is mostly non-sense. It is about as real as a New York Musical, and it is all about a production. All imagination and fantasy that becomes anything the person desires.

The only true religion begins with science, archaeology used to support history, and science doesn't need a drop of spirit nor faith.


Humans like to use spirit as a drug of self aggrandizement intoxication. Lots of singing and feel good talks, with a good bit of hell fire and damnation scare tactics. Nothing more to religion these days then that for Santa Claus.

The only thing I see in your comments is the need for more delusions, using dramatic productions for a overbuilt story

reply to post by MagnumOpus


Science and spirit are two sides of the same coin. Tell me, sir, when did you come to know everything there is to know? I daresay, you must be like a god with all that knowledge and certainty! You could make millions with all the answers you have that even our top scientists and researchers haven't yet found!

Such an ego.

The only thing I see in your comments is the need for more delusions, using dramatic productions for a overbuilt story

A closed mind makes for an ignorant soul. I rest my case. Have a good day; I don't waste my time with people who don't care to listen.

I think you might have noticed that I am not at all impressed with your empty words that profess exclusive knowledge of special powers and associations.

Science doesn't need a musical production, nor a lot of embellished worlds left over from times gone by, and all it takes is a high degree of common sense and critical reasoning.

Religions tend to by-pass those essential elements of life and pretty much exist in a fantasy world of make believe.


Thus, I have no need for that which appears to be your drug. imho

reply to post by MagnumOpus

I think you might have noticed that I am not at all impressed with your empty words that profess exclusive knowledge of special powers and associations.

Science doesn't need a musical production, nor a lot of embellished worlds left over from times gone by, and all it takes is a high degree of common sense and critical reasoning.

Religions tend to by-pass those essential elements of life and pretty much exist in a fantasy world of make believe.


Thus, I have no need for that which appears to be your drug. imho

Only a fool would believe that the world he sees is the only one that exists. Indeed, even the world he sees can be seen differently from a different set of experienced eyes.

Religion is young. Science is young. Humankind is young. Yet you act as though we have all the answers? You think science and religion are so different? Science approaches the world from the mind, religion approaches from the heart. Are you so ignorant as to believe the two cannot meld, that the two have nothing in common, that the two aren't simply two different windows gazing on the same perfect world?

I do not not pretend to hold a super special knowledge of secret powers and higher beings. I do, however, see more than you do. You are as educated as a segregationist in the matter of science and spirit. As such, I cannot hold a conversation with you on this topic because only personal experience will sway your understanding. Even at that point, I am not sure that you will be able to let go of what is familiar to you. Until you have removed your blindfold, I cannot show you the rainbow, because talking to your hand will do neither of us justice.

Good day sir.

You said good-bye once before. Guess you have issues.


Religion is on its last legs as the sciences progress. Most of the world now can see the issues of the Creator gods of the Sumeria area long past, and how all the embellished stories for god came into vogue and embellished productions.

I and many others don't desire or seek your help in imagination and departure from reality. You incorrectly assume that I seek your views that I am not impressed to even hear.

The comments here are only to show others how not to buy into religion's pretty words that have no real substance.


Teaching people real values and real truth begins with admissions that the overstated elements of religion don't measure up as real values, only fantasy production with the merits of a long running Broadway show.


You can pretend you know more than I, but I can see right though such false claims and self aggrandization. imho

I remain not impressed, and don't see any true values in what you have said thus far.

reply to post by MagnumOpus


Magnum, I'm a little surprised to read these thoughts from you in this thread.

So, you are saying (I think?) that the "gods" were aliens, correct? I'm not disagreeing...but...
why can there not be both Aliens who practiced "human husbandry" AND a Divine Source/Spirit?

reply to post by jhill76


Let's address these things, shall we?

Religion is on its last legs as the sciences progress. Most of the world now can see the issues of the Creator gods of the Sumeria area long past, and how all the embellished stories for god came into vogue and embellished productions.

The above quote is an argument against spirituality. Since skepticism is always a healthy thing (unless, of course, it is willful ignorance) we should study these arguments to see if they hold merit.

Spirituality, we can all agree, has had its many stories and its many paths, its advocates and its oppressors, its leaders and its rebels. But I think we also can agree that many, if not most, of these people - especially in modern times - have only what I call to be a "vain spirituality", or a largely self-serving take on religion.

It is THIS sort of religion that is on its last legs, as far as I can see. As science continues to explore quantum physics, they will discover the underlying world that governs the energies of spirit, the fluxes and flows of the gravitational dictum that is responsible for everything as it stands today. Even the smallest particle of energu have gravity to thank for their effect on the world - otherwise, there would BE no energy. Without gravity, there is no force, without force, no motion, without motion, no energy, without energy, no matter, without matter, no ANYTHING.

And that is the part science plays in our journey.

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by MagnumOpus

 

Magnum, I'm a little surprised to read these thoughts from you in this thread.

So, you are saying (I think?) that the "gods" were aliens, correct? I'm not disagreeing...but...
why can there not be both Aliens who practiced "human husbandry" AND a Divine Source/Spirit?

Howdy Wild,

With all you know of the god of Anu theme, how can it reduce to anything other than the words of humans.

The issues for god boil down to two distinct sources: 1. The theme for the Creator of the Universe, which has elements of disorder and order. Generally, an item of no shape or definition, that no person has met and no real symbol can represent. 2. Is the Creator of Homo Sapiens god theme of the Annunaki, which goes far back in time and was generally about exploitation and invention of humans to work complex operations. One god of Anu element, which was called Enlil was the Yahweh theme, and the other was Enki or the Jesus Father, Abba theme.

The issues for the Divine Source is what ancient human thoughts generated and wrote down and other human examiners checked to see if it could be considered inspired of the ways of the gods of Anu. The gods of Anu had two versions, Enlil and Enki which most try to combine into one source. Then, many times they also attempt to mate these gods of Anu with the theme of the Universe Creator.

Homo erectus DNA was blended with some of the gods of Anu DNA, offspring examples being Elijah and Enoch, and various other down line offspring had varying shades of their DNA signature. The Book of Enoch was trying to set the record straight on what were the gods of those days.

But, it comes down to the simple deduction that Divine Inspiration is what humans tried to capture of their thoughts on the gods of Anu, and one god was exploitative and the other more the benevolent type. And either way, they were an alien component that shaped what we have now as the long generational DNA blend called Humans.

The old religion followers read and made some of the written words of other humans special, and some did contain some good moral and dogma to live by that even appear to be values held by the gods of Anu. But the gods of Anu are two pronged sets of values, one that wanted to exploit humans for labor and another that appeared to want to make them equal to the gods to the extent possible.


It boils down to the issues of some religion humans want to hold that basically ET as being god. I chose to say ET was just an intelligent race, that resides here no more, but left their genetic prints in humanity's DNA. All the divine inspirations words are feeble attempts of generally primitive minds that either wanted to emulate these gods or try to assume their rolls.

All that huge stack of words in the Bible appear to fair to teach the real message, and those that held the Book of Enoch as a early starting point, as the Ethiopian Church does, got a much better vision of religious though and origin.

Divine Word is just the thoughts of humans that appeared to miss the mark of the best explanations and some appear to work hard to elect themselves as special messengers of what the gods of Anu wanted of them, and they embellished the stories into a mess that divides the world rather than unites it.

reply to post by MagnumOpus


Your entire problem stems from attempting to grasp the entirety of Source using the limited brainspace and communicative skills we have developed as a species. It isn't possible. There's a reason I only use one word for it.

We have too many preconceptions and expectations muddling our understanding of the divinity of the universe, hence all the confusion and disbelief. We're so used to hearing about deities that offer us fantastic deals on what we want as long as we just lie to ourselves until we believe it - and then there are those who see through the illusion, and become so disgusted with it, and with hearing about it all the time, that they associate any remotely similar concept with that deception.

Has it never occurred to you that this association was engineered? Either you will become be socially driven to accept this false spirituality, or you will be driven from accepting spirituality at all. And it's all just the Law of Attraction. Prayer, worship, being grateful, devoting your acts to the cosmos - it's all a part of "ask and ye shall receive", the Law of Attraction, the SECRET.

It also works in reverse, which is why we're told not to harm anyone or do hurtful things.

It boils down to the issues of some religion humans want to hold that basically ET as being god. I chose to say ET was just an intelligent race, that resides here no more, but left their genetic prints in humanity's DNA. All the divine inspirations words are feeble attempts of generally primitive minds that either wanted to emulate these gods or try to assume their rolls.

Because it's more reasonable to believe we're the heirs of a race that abandoned this world for an unknown reason?

I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just saying that guess is as concrete as any of the others we've seen.

reply to post by MagnumOpus

Divine Word is just the thoughts of humans that appeared to miss the mark of the best explanations and some appear to work hard to elect themselves as special messengers of what the gods of Anu wanted of them, and they embellished the stories into a mess that divides the world rather than unites it.

So, let me get this straight.

Let's say (because I don't doubt it) the Anu came. The human(oids) here thought they were "gods" because of their amazing arrival and deeds.

Fine. No argument there.

Still.............
you don't suppose it's possible that the Annunaki were the ones who taught them (us) about the Divine Source?