Is the Spirit in error, or the person?

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posted on Sep, 30 2012 @ 01:17 PM
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reply to post by jhill76
 



There are many here seen and unseen, who have these answers. But, many tend to stay in that safety zone and don't listen.


I've seen you do the same. Why the change of heart?




posted on Sep, 30 2012 @ 01:17 PM
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reply to post by jhill76
 


There are many here seen and unseen, who have these answers. But, many tend to stay in that safety zone and don't listen.

My friend, I'm all ears. This place (I mean Physical Existence, not ATS) isn't "safe" at all; the only true "safety" we know is within.
edit on 30-9-2012 by wildtimes because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 30 2012 @ 01:19 PM
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Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by jhill76
 



There are many here seen and unseen, who have these answers. But, many tend to stay in that safety zone and don't listen.


I've seen you do the same. Why the change of heart?


My understanding of jhill is that he asks many questions, as a way of teaching what he has to say; to get others to think. He is watching, and (as far as I can tell) very confident in his knowledge-base.



posted on Sep, 30 2012 @ 01:20 PM
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Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by jhill76
 



There are many here seen and unseen, who have these answers. But, many tend to stay in that safety zone and don't listen.


I've seen you do the same. Why the change of heart?


You have seen me do nothing. If I ask questions, I ask not for self, but to understand the thinking of others. Do not take what I write on here as my intent.



posted on Sep, 30 2012 @ 01:22 PM
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reply to post by jhill76
 


I have seen you defend Christianity up and down the forums, and yet here you question the spirit. You see what I have seen, what many others have seen, and you finally begin to question where before you simply passed it off as weakness or temptation of "Satan".

So again, why the change of heart?



posted on Sep, 30 2012 @ 01:25 PM
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Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by jhill76
 


I have seen you defend Christianity up and down the forums, and yet here you question the spirit. You see what I have seen, what many others have seen, and you finally begin to question where before you simply passed it off as weakness or temptation of "Satan".

So again, why the change of heart?


I do not defend Christianity, but it is the closest to what is. If you see me defend an ideal or a belief, it is because it is what is. I am not questioning anything above, I am questioning others here to see train of thought. I am not in need to question what is.

Please quote me on what you have written above. Many things are about context and the conversation.
edit on 30-9-2012 by jhill76 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 30 2012 @ 01:25 PM
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reply to post by AfterInfinity
 


before you simply passed it off as weakness or temptation of "Satan".

He did??
Huh...can you point to some posts that show that? I haven't been here long enough, perhaps, to see that from him. Or didn't look at the posts in question.



posted on Sep, 30 2012 @ 01:28 PM
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Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by jhill76
 


I have seen you defend Christianity up and down the forums, and yet here you question the spirit. You see what I have seen, what many others have seen, and you finally begin to question where before you simply passed it off as weakness or temptation of "Satan".

So again, why the change of heart?


He's not questioning the Spirit. He's questioning if people think that the Spirit is never in error, then their interpretations will not be in error, but obviously, some people's interpretations are in error. He's questioning about how this is.

Jhill gives information, sometimes by prodding it out of you, which is a technique I use sometimes.

IN all religious experience, Rudolf Otto coined this term, there is a sense of Mysterium Tremundum, or tremendous mystery. There is a paradoxical concept for two opposite emotions, fear and attraction. We fear because it is unknown, and we are also attracted to it because it is the unknown. Sometimes the fear overcomes the attraction, and that's why some people can not handle the bad. Get rid of that fear.
edit on 30-9-2012 by DelayedChristmas because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 30 2012 @ 01:34 PM
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reply to post by DelayedChristmas
 




Sometimes the fear overcomes the attraction, and that's why some people can not handle the bad. Get rid of that fear.


When sight and memory was locked from me, when Father called me to come forth, I said no, I am scared, I don't want to see something I am afraid of. I fully understand this from the point of view of human perspective.



posted on Sep, 30 2012 @ 02:06 PM
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reply to post by DelayedChristmas
 


I am well aware of the psychological methods. However, the spirit is never in error, but our understanding of it is. And all too often, we take shortcuts, such as Christianity, which pretends that all the understanding of spiritual matters can be taken out of a book that not only conveys information in absolutes (never a good thing in spiritual matters) but also hasn't been updated in centuries.

All in all, a less-than-helpful source of information. But because we're so fond of tradition, and are afraid of unreliable sources, we just head to the local market for whatever is recommended. But notice how, if logical discourse is applied, it all falls apart...

My exasperation is interfering with my ability to communicate, so I'll cut it off there. Spirit has never been a simple thing, guys, and if you try to take short cuts or do it the cheap way, then you'll never find what you're looking for. You'll only convince yourself you have.



posted on Sep, 30 2012 @ 02:28 PM
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Originally posted by jhill76
I see time and time again, when asked how do they know. They will claim the Spirit leads me to these truths. If this is the case, then why is there so many divisions in Christianity if all of these people are led by the Spirit? Or, even take ATS as an example. Why are there so many debates on faith, if everyone is led by the same Holy Spirit?

As it stands, the Spirit of God does not change, so why would said Spirit give one person one interpretation, and another a different one?

If the Holy Spirit is not in error, then it must be concluded that the person is in error.

So, the main question is, why does one person say when led via the Spirit, their word is true over another's?


Truth is an onion. Perspective has more than one way of seeing the same thing. All truth is by context to what it describes and the meaning of the words used to describe what is seen are best defined by the experiences of the one describing what is seen. Since symbols have more than one meaning, just like words have multiple meanings, then chains of symbols are only consistent with the entity using the symbols in a chain. The human body is constructed by chains of information. When the chain of information is broken, we say that sickness is a break in the chain. We are all out of context with truth, therefore truth must be in layers. Like temperature on a scale, truth is one thing by many degrees. Unity is infinity at rest and multiplicity is infinity in movement of parts. Inverse square law demonstrates that awareness must be matched to proximity to the source. Our awareness is like the screen catching the light from the projector. Context is like the focus and distance from the source is like our distance from God.

There can only be one source. Everything else is a distance from that core. Some perspectives are sick (broken by incorrect links). This cannot be fixed until we actually receive the Holy Spirit. It comes next in the sequence of events for mankind.


edit on 30-9-2012 by EnochWasRight because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 30 2012 @ 02:46 PM
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reply to post by EnochWasRight
 


What's the "Holy Spirit"? I can promise you that it isn't found in any book. It's found in awareness. Simple as that.
edit on 30-9-2012 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 30 2012 @ 03:05 PM
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Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by EnochWasRight
 


What's the "Holy Spirit"? I can promise you that it isn't found in any book. It's found in awareness. Simple as that.
edit on 30-9-2012 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)


I have good reason to believe that Spirit is consciousness. God calls himself I AM. Our Spirit is a Soul that is a child brought up by the Spirit of God (Good Shepherd). The sequence is as follows:

Epistle of Barnabas 15:3

"Of the Sabbath He speaketh in the beginning of the creation; And God made the works of His hands in six days, and He ended on the seventh day, and rested on it, and He hallowed it.

Epistle of Barnabas 15:4

Give heed, children, what this meaneth; He ended in six days. He meaneth this, that in six thousand years the Lord shall bring all things to an end; for the day with Him signifyeth a thousand years; and this He himself beareth me witness, saying; Behold, the day of the Lord shall be as a thousand years. Therefore, children, in six days, that is in six thousand years, everything shall come to an end."

If you take the genealogy into account, Adam is the Father of the world and Abraham is the Father of the Nation that gains the inheritance from God. Israel is anyone that takes on the archetype of the bride. The first son is Issac and the last Son is Jesus. Jesus is the last Adam. What did Jesus promise us? The Holy Spirit. Until we receive it, we are given a comforter. We must have a comforter while under the cloud of evil spirits. Cloud is the word nephelē. It also derives the word Nephilim, a cloud of evil spirits covering the people. See these threads to make the connections:

Amnion

Humpty

We are under a veil at this point. Until Christ is revealed, he is not fact but faith within the bride. He must come back after building the chamber. The Father is the only one that can approve the chamber and send the Son for the Bride. Now that you see this, consider the sequence.

-Adam to Abraham 2000 Years of Age 1 (FATHER)
-Abraham to Jesus 2000 Years of Age 2 (SON)
-Jesus to Today 2000 Years of Age 3 (HOLY SPIRIT)
-Day of Rest (Day of the Lord) 1000 years (SALVATION)

Salvation comes after we are possessed fully by the Holy Spirit of God. Why is there no female in the Trinity mentioned in the Bible? Because she is yet to be revealed as the Spirit of God. The Day of the Lord is 1000 years of rest for humanity from evil. This is when the spirit (Dove / Peace) descends and unity takes hold.



posted on Sep, 30 2012 @ 03:14 PM
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reply to post by EnochWasRight
 


That's awfully funny, in every sense of the phrase, because "awareness" does not judge, due to the simple fact that to be completely aware is to see everything from everyone else's view as well, and it's hard to judge a man after you walk a hundred miles in his shoes, you know?

And yet I see more judgment than anything in churches these days. And they operate on spirit, correct? Nah, your spirit isn't awareness. It's arrogance and cowardice. The attempt to feel better by pretending problems don't exist, or we don't have to worry about it. And meanwhile, let's make that person over there feel like crap because they happen to have a different opinion.

"HEY, YOU, YOU'RE GOING TO HELL BECAUSE MY PASTOR SAID SO!!"

That's awareness? Those people walking around preaching about "You must do this thing this way, and that thing that way because that's what I feel the Bible says"? Or the zealots with the cardboard signs? Please show me where I'm seeing this wrong -

Because that's what the Christians always do, right? "You're looking at it wrong." Well, please, show me how your wrong is a right!

So, like I say, spirit is awareness. Not judgment. Not degradation. Not right and wrong. It's awareness and understanding. In my most humble opinion, of course.




Salvation comes after we are possessed fully by the Holy Spirit of God


So which is it? Awareness, or consciousness? And please explain to me the difference between the two, if you see a difference, and how the difference relates to this "Holy Spirit".
edit on 30-9-2012 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 30 2012 @ 05:55 PM
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Originally posted by jhill76
I see time and time again, when asked how do they know. They will claim the Spirit leads me to these truths. If this is the case, then why is there so many divisions in Christianity if all of these people are led by the Spirit? Or, even take ATS as an example. Why are there so many debates on faith, if everyone is led by the same Holy Spirit?

As it stands, the Spirit of God does not change, so why would said Spirit give one person one interpretation, and another a different one?

If the Holy Spirit is not in error, then it must be concluded that the person is in error.

So, the main question is, why does one person say when led via the Spirit, their word is true over another's?


This has been on my mind for some time now... I have to get some things out OP.. this is going to be deep but this is where my mind is currently on this subject.

The spirit leads all of us to do what is right by our fellow man and or brother/sister. Our way (spirit) through the material being (spirits vessel) may go against our brother/sister and in doing so is going against the Holy Spirit, the energy within us all.

For one person their path is one way and for another it is another way, however all ways will indeed lead to the one way and our survival as a species in the flesh depends on this.... If we want to fight it, that is. Fight to stay in the material and evolve which I think we can do.

We do have to treat each person as yourself (Golden Rule). Each expression we see in ALL people (that we may not like) reflect God in one way or another. We are ALL of Gods children. We ARE the Israelites (in spirit) too! We, the 12 tribes scattered among ALL nations and it is WE (all spirits) who will be called upon one day. How did you do? How do you reflect God in your life with other people? Not your religion.... no..... YOU? Your spirit...

When doing good by our brother and being his keeper (going in the good order of nature) we create a loving family, then a community, then a nation, then a world of compassion and love. No one goes hungry and no one is denied health care. We are all shown love and help one another. This is peace. Where there is peace, there is no war.
This is how Jesus lived and many others we can learn from.

What sets the Bible aside from different texts is Jesus (King/Son of Man) help write the Bible with different incarnations. Don't believe me? Read Enoch, Joshua and Melchizedek,then message me with your thoughts. Those are just a few incarnations, but there is more. That is why also the Buddhist religion is so good spirited. Jesus has inspired many texts and that is why The Bible is awesome with foretelling war/peace both past, present and future. It is for all of time as we have known it.

We can see it and change it though, from within our hearts and thats exactly what Jesus asks us to do. History can be changed as we are the creators of this world. We're not doing so hot right now, but we have the power to change it.

ALL RELIGIONS and philosophies go against the Holy Spirit WHEN it seeks to divide one against the other. We have to love our brother and his differences. Maybe you don't believe we are all Israelites (Spirits), that we are all Gods children? We are the House of Israel.... our spirit IS!

Israel was a name created and given BY GOD. What does it mean? Rebel. God gave it to Jacob for rebelling against the angels. Jesus is said to be King of the Israelites (mankind) and he is the judge. Each time we go back home, we have to come back and reap what we sow until we reach a perfection with spirit (personality). We are mere babies evidently.

We are ALL rebellious in one way or another. Mankind is rebellious. Mankind is Adam/Jesus, ALL PEOPLE. We (Not flesh, but the spirit) are all in the seed of Abraham (spiritual sense)....bad and good and in between but we can CHOOSE, all the time we are awake and asleep, to be good to our fellow man. We do not have to claim religion.... we just have to choose to be good to our brother/sister.

For anyone with kids... you know how important it is (to you) for your kids to be there for one another and to get along. I know it breaks my heart when my kids are mean to each other.... Our father is no different. He wants us to be kind to one another and try to get along. Words are created for us so we can talk things out with one another. We have all the tools to succeed but we divide our self from one another as a whole and this is no good. It ends civilizations.

Solomon shows us what happens when the material begins to lead your heart and it goes against the people who are Gods children...God's Israelites. His people are to help their brother and be his keeper. This is law. Karma exists and we pay it all the time. Cause and Effect... One cannot read a religious text and not see the spirit of it... otherwise you are not being lead by the spirit but a person in error.
edit on 30-9-2012 by MamaJ because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 30 2012 @ 10:06 PM
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reply to post by AfterInfinity
 




So which is it? Awareness, or consciousness? And please explain to me the difference between the two, if you see a difference, and how the difference relates to this "Holy Spirit".


Consciousness is awareness of external objects and the ability to know self. Self-aware is not Awareness of God. There is a difference. You rightly state that people are not aware of God fully. Faith is a hope in what is not seen, therefore, none of us are aware of God. To be aware of God is to fully know. We are merely fully known. We see dimly, as in a mirror. Read my post closer and follow the links to my recent threads on Humpty Dumpty and Amnion.

Read my signature statement. The same holds true for the Christian. You can say what you want about anyone or you can proclaim what you wish regarding character or behavior. It only matters if it is truth. Truth is the judge and when you view truth as a mirror, you will see yourself clearly. Seeing God is another matter. This life is designed to see yourself, not God. As a byproduct of that vision of yourself, you come to know God in the reflection. From this point, faith is developed by God. God must reveal Himself to all seekers of truth.

1 Corinthians 13

12 For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

The requirements in the New Testament are not merely for believers. They are primarily for the Living Word that came among men. Men will fail you continually. God will not. Like I said, until we possess the Holy Spirit and it possesses us fully, we will be in darkness equally.



edit on 30-9-2012 by EnochWasRight because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 30 2012 @ 11:47 PM
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The 'Spirit' is just your own personal random image generator, primed by all the memes you happen to be carrying around in your head. It's the background radiation of your mind.
So anyone who tries to present information gained from accessing this altered state of consciousness as if it's information from a real entity, is wrong.
Having the experience itself is not though.
And while a random word generator, or stream of consciousness writing, or collage techniques, or flipping through 100 tv channels, can still build up a meaningful picture, it's a meaning you alone project onto the experience.
To then try and convince others that you've communicated with the spirit of God or the universe, is really just a bit of mistaken over-enthusiasm for your own experience.
The ability to slip into this state of communion with the background noise of your own brain is actually quite a good one though, and can be good for creative solutions to problems, or art, and if you've cultivated the ability to do so, good on you.
Just don't make the error of starting any sentences with, "God told me that..."



posted on Oct, 1 2012 @ 12:40 AM
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Originally posted by jhill76As it stands, the Spirit of God does not change, so why would said Spirit give one person one interpretation, and another a different one?

If the Holy Spirit is not in error, then it must be concluded that the person is in error.

So, the main question is, why does one person say when led via the Spirit, their word is true over another's?


Different interpretation, different spirits.

Interpret with the wisdom of the Spirit, not the wisdom of the Flesh.

The Spirit of the Antichrist is many but there is only one Holy Spirit - the one narrow door.

The dead give away is the flesh. The false Gospel, will make it easy for the carnal unbeliever to become a 'carnal Christian' which is the false Christianity.

The flesh, the lust of the eyes, the pride of life - money, possessions, titles, accomplishments, hobbies, the very things the unbelievers run after, love and enjoy - in the popular false Gospel, they teach NOTHING is wrong with it!!!

There is nothing wrong with something God will utterly destroy later??? Why would God destroy all the works of men, all that we took pride in, our education, our buildings, our technology. God blesses you with 'nice things' He gonna judge and destroy later??? Doesn't make sense!! Most are following a doctrine of fools!! A false doctrine that contradicts itself but many are too blind with the flesh over their eyes!!

They end up converting unbelievers into the belief that God blesses with the very things Jesus calls abominations!!

The popular gospel today is the false gospel the gospel of the Antichrist. It has many denominations and most Christians fall under that category.



posted on Oct, 1 2012 @ 09:48 AM
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reply to post by ahnggk
 


Essentially, that is what I have been saying. But far too many base their modernizations on traiditonal or fundamental aspects. And those fundamental aspects are also damaging. There's a certain detriment to pulling the draw strings too tight....



posted on Oct, 1 2012 @ 04:07 PM
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reply to post by wildtimes
 


Oh, look at this book I keep of everything everyone ever posts that I might need to refer to later...

Oh wait, I don't do that, because it's a huge waste of my time. .__.





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