Invitation to post for lurkers

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posted on Sep, 30 2012 @ 07:47 AM
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Since the 911 forum has reopened, we've seen participation drop dramatically and already some of the more prolific posters have been banned. This seems to be driving casual posters off, either with the WATS score requirements or the fear of being accidentally banned.

While I can do nothing about the rules, I would like to offer this thread as a place for informal discussion or Ask A Debunker! style questioning.

I think that the most aggressive posters on either side here have now been banned and the remaining people are fairly careful and polite, so I hope that we can make this a thread without the requirement to solidly prove any statement. I ask any debunkers and any 'truthers' or '911 sceptics' or whichever term you would prefer to take it easy here without the need to criticise or doubt every piece of evidence from either side.

If you think something is suspicious about 911, post what you think and why. I promise that I will not jump down your throat screaming about how you cannot prove it, and I hope others will follow suit. There's nothing wrong with speculation, just that it normally does not have a direct place in threads talking about proof. That's what this thread is for.

As I've mentioned in many other threads, I am very suspicious about the motives of Bush when testifying, and I would be very interested to know if anyone has any more solid information on potential involvement in anything dubious. I doubt very much that Bush is involved with an 'inside job', but I would not be shocked at all to find out that there were political pressures in place that prevented a proper investigation.

What are your thoughts?




posted on Sep, 30 2012 @ 08:01 AM
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reply to post by exponent
 


Well, for me personally, the event and consequential explanations have given me cause to doubt the official story.

Although I have never posted in that forum, I am well aware of the evidence produced from both sides of the spectrum.

My mind is made up. The simple fact of the matter, for me, is that things simply do not add up.

Like JFK, Martin Luther King, UFO's, Ghosts and a number of other topics that I find personally important, I am happy to accept that we live in two worlds - the one we are taught.............and reality.

So, posting in that forum would not convince me to alter my own personal view of what happened that fateful day.

BUT....I won't stop visiting the 9/11 forum because it was and is a great read - always.

S&F for the offer
edit on 30-9-2012 by Sublimecraft because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 30 2012 @ 08:09 AM
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What an awesome start! Exactly what I hoped to see here.


Originally posted by Sublimecraft
reply to post by exponent
 

My mind is made up. The simple fact of the matter, for me, is that things simply do not add up.

Like JFK, Martin Luther King, UFO's, Ghosts and a number of other topics that I find personally important, I am happy to accept that we live in two worlds - the one we are taught.............and reality.


Are you not worried that you are being deceived here too? I obviously don't share your beliefs, and for many of those I can't trust a lot of the 'evidence' because I don't trust the objectivity of the people reporting it.

Take Derek Acorah for example, a complete phony but who hosts shows repeatedly pretending like ghosts are taking possession of him. How do you differentiate between an obvious scammer like him and someone you feel may have legitimacy?



posted on Sep, 30 2012 @ 08:22 AM
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reply to post by exponent
 


I am constantly checking myself - it is my only true safety protocol regarding being deceived. Also checking and double checking information and sources until they have been fully exhausted to my satisfaction.

Regarding Ghosts, primarily, my conviction comes from my own personal experience in Port Arthur, Tasmania (before Mr Bryant I might add) where I came face to face with one - and it was very real - at least to me. Even now, typing this, the memory is vivid.

Regarding UFO's, I have never seen one, but have read & discussed the topic at length through-out my life, including a very good friend of mine (who is a Captain in the Navy) who has confided in me regarding his own personal experience which, to this day, he has never bought up with anyone else - not even his wife, from fear of ridicule and professional suicide.

My instincts have served me very well in my life and I very quickly learnt that they are a good guide - my first instinct is usually the correct one.
edit on 30-9-2012 by Sublimecraft because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 30 2012 @ 08:46 AM
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reply to post by Sublimecraft
 


There's nothing particularly wrong with your post, I would normally caution against using anecdotal evidence but I understand how experiences like this can have deep personal effect so I am not going to sit here and tell you what you experienced.

However, this is the 911 forum, so I wondered if I could hear your thoughts on the various 911 groups. Do you feel that these groups are trustable and operating with the best of intentions? I certainly don't feel this way about AE911truth for example. I think they present a contradictory list of claims and then instead of trying to resolve them they demand they are true and request donations to travel around the world presenting them to try and increase their membership.

That seems inherently dubious to me, where is the fund to actually do an investigation? Instead it seems to have become Richard Gage's personal holiday vehicle, even though their members growth has dropped to almost nothing.



posted on Sep, 30 2012 @ 09:12 AM
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The video of bush In the classroom was very creepy, the words the kids where reading off the board.

Plane, hit, steel, must.

Just another coincedence to add to the loooooong list.

911 was staged/let happen, to invade all privacy for the protection of corrupt government... Not the people, IMO.



posted on Sep, 30 2012 @ 09:18 AM
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reply to post by exponent
 


Well, I do not want to comment on any particular group mainly due to the fact that I prefer the evidence produced, not the entity providing it - as I said previously, I will not take anything at face value until I have checked the validity of claims presented by third party sources.

Because of the subject matter here, I remain skeptical, in that all groups on both sides may very well have been infiltrated by intelligence entities to serve purposes that are not beneficial to the general public's perception of the event.

Particulars such as the passport, BBC coverage and 911 commission of Tower 7, very quick MSM finger pointing of OBL, Haliburton involvement in reconstruction, patriot act installment, flying precision, fire-fighter and public testimony of basement explosions, structural girder pics, demolition and engineering expert opinions, William Cooper, Sollog blog and the list could go on - answers to same, for me, are vague / dismissive / evasive.

But, you have managed to suck me in here - well done
edit on 30-9-2012 by Sublimecraft because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 30 2012 @ 09:30 AM
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reply to post by exponent
 


Been here for about 2 years and have avoided this forum like the plague. I'm busy in the political forums where we are always nice and pleasant to each other.


I've always been a firm adherent to Occam's Razor. 19 Islamic extremists crashed planes into the Towers, Pentagon, and that field.

But please, carry on and everyone have a nice day.

Cheers,
beez



posted on Sep, 30 2012 @ 09:56 AM
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Well thank you for your polite invitation.

I'm a lurker. I expect this will be my only post here.

9-11 is huge subject, and by sheer necessity it tends to be debated in its details more than the whole. Most any single aspect of the events of that day could admit of a variety of explanations, and some of the "debunker" arguments might be acceptable if taken in isolation. If the official story was generally believable with only a couple of apparently strange anomalies, then I'd be more inclined to accept those explanations.

But, looking at the entire picture, the official story simply does not make any sense whatsoever. There are simply too many implausible things the official story expects us to believe. It strains credibility.

In any crime investigation, a suspect might have a plausible explanation for some part of the evidence, but taking all the evidence, along with the test of "means, motive and opportunity", the obvious conclusion that they are lying may be made. And certainly one should not allow the suspect to investigate his own crime.

In the case of 9-11, we have a huge and astoundingly audacious crime- understandably, many intelligent people will find it impossible to get their minds around the idea that the deception runs as deep as it does, and so will ease their minds by concentrating on anomalies taken in isolation, and convincing themselves that the people who are suspicious of the story just simply don't understand the science of that particular detail.

Take a few steps back and look at the whole big picture, and consider the level of control the government has over the media and institutional science- both overt control and subtle control. The official investigation was highly compartmentalized and carried out by people who were psychologically uncomfortable with facing the concept of a really huge deception.





edit on 30-9-2012 by seaside sky because: typo



posted on Sep, 30 2012 @ 10:31 AM
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911 discussion on ATS already dead with the official story supporter winning it.
There are no chance for the truthers to fight unless willingly to reregister as ATS new user.

We can always read the history and makeup our own decision(s).



Any Terms & Conditions infraction in the 9/11 forum may result in the termination of your account without warning.


When you might get shot because of your belief, hands will start doing its job.
I vote out to another venues.
Cya space cowboys!



posted on Sep, 30 2012 @ 10:31 AM
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Originally posted by Wifibrains
The video of bush In the classroom was very creepy, the words the kids where reading off the board.

Plane, hit, steel, must.

Just another coincedence to add to the loooooong list.



I am afraid your post exemplifies why I can't be bothered to get back into the 9/11 forum.

What you have stated is quite false, that is not what the children were being taught . It has been shown to be false on so many occasions but still gets trotted out regularly.

All that seems to come from the truther side now are similar allegations which I have seen aptly described as " zombie facts "; that is they just keep on coming however many times they have been shot down.

It gets tedious addressing the same old same old and I think 9/11 "truth" has had its day anyway.



posted on Sep, 30 2012 @ 10:52 AM
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reply to post by exponent
 


yep, 911 will go down, truthers have no chance to win it. this is another vietnam.
Good luck to any truthers that still want to fight here.



Faye Valentine: Survival of the fittest is the law of nature. We deceive or we are deceived. Thus, we flourish or perish. Nothing good ever happened to me when I trusted others. That is the lesson.


Cya space cowboys.
BANG



posted on Sep, 30 2012 @ 10:53 AM
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Originally posted by Wifibrains
The video of bush In the classroom was very creepy, the words the kids where reading off the board.

Plane, hit, steel, must.

Just another coincedence to add to the loooooong list.

911 was staged/let happen, to invade all privacy for the protection of corrupt government... Not the people, IMO.



It's things like this that make people look a little crazy. The kids had nothing to do with it.




posted on Sep, 30 2012 @ 10:54 AM
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Originally posted by Alfie1

Originally posted by Wifibrains
The video of bush In the classroom was very creepy, the words the kids where reading off the board.

Plane, hit, steel, must.

Just another coincedence to add to the loooooong list.



I am afraid your post exemplifies why I can't be bothered to get back into the 9/11 forum.

What you have stated is quite false, that is not what the children were being taught . It has been shown to be false on so many occasions but still gets trotted out regularly.

All that seems to come from the truther side now are similar allegations which I have seen aptly described as " zombie facts "; that is they just keep on coming however many times they have been shot down.

It gets tedious addressing the same old same old and I think 9/11 "truth" has had its day anyway.



Well, I've not seen it shown to be false
I've seen the video, are you saying its cgi or edited to look like that? I saw the words on the board, I heard the kids chanting, I saw bush looking very on edge?

I've not frequented this forum like you have. What did I miss?



posted on Sep, 30 2012 @ 10:59 AM
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Originally posted by Wifibrains

Originally posted by Alfie1

Originally posted by Wifibrains
The video of bush In the classroom was very creepy, the words the kids where reading off the board.

Plane, hit, steel, must.

Just another coincedence to add to the loooooong list.



I am afraid your post exemplifies why I can't be bothered to get back into the 9/11 forum.

What you have stated is quite false, that is not what the children were being taught . It has been shown to be false on so many occasions but still gets trotted out regularly.

All that seems to come from the truther side now are similar allegations which I have seen aptly described as " zombie facts "; that is they just keep on coming however many times they have been shot down.

It gets tedious addressing the same old same old and I think 9/11 "truth" has had its day anyway.



Well, I've not seen it shown to be false
I've seen the video, are you saying its cgi or edited to look like that? I saw the words on the board, I heard the kids chanting, I saw bush looking very on edge?

I've not frequented this forum like you have. What did I miss?


Edit, I've just seen the above post, and can these words said in unison by the children could be mistaken for the words I posted. I did say it was creepy lol. So was the video I saw cgi as I'm sure I saw the words she was pointing too?



posted on Sep, 30 2012 @ 11:01 AM
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reply to post by maxella1
 


Are you trying to say I'm stating the kids where something to do with it? Lol.

Bush, not the kids.



posted on Sep, 30 2012 @ 11:06 AM
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reply to post by Wifibrains
 





Edit, I've just seen the above post, and can these words said in unison by the children could be mistaken for the words I posted. I did say it was creepy lol. So was the video I saw cgi as I'm sure I saw the words she was pointing too?


Things can be made to seem like something they are not. Like this for instance:




It means nothing...



posted on Sep, 30 2012 @ 11:07 AM
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reply to post by Wifibrains
 


Perhaps you have been scammed by a manipulated video on some conspiracy site.



posted on Sep, 30 2012 @ 11:09 AM
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Originally posted by Wifibrains
reply to post by maxella1
 


Are you trying to say I'm stating the kids where something to do with it? Lol.

Bush, not the kids.


No I'm not saying that. I read and heard people saying that the book and the words were some kind of warning or a symbolic ritual. And I'm saying that the kids were not warning the world that the planes will hit the steel buildings.



posted on Sep, 30 2012 @ 11:13 AM
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reply to post by Alfie1
 



Like ats? Lol. Possibly.

So you are saying the official version is the truth?

Government never knew it was going to happen, and allowed it for their own agenda?

Millitary black ops never propagated terrorism?

I think the powers that be had the means to manipulate people to manifest this event into reality for their own agenda.





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