Women have the human right to choose to work or not when they are bringing up kids.

reply to post by Revolution9


Thanks for trying to inderstand, but I actually "their" situations rather well, as 6 of my closest girlfriends from school have gone down the avenue of having children immediately after. Only one of those had a messed up background, and lack of education. The rest, simply couldn't be arsed to make an effort.

I my self have been tackling homlessness, since 14, and you might as well class me as an orphan.

So, my sympathy isn't that hard to come across. And trust me, they get more that they need to survive, I see a few of them on a weekly basis, they want for NOTHING.

Wow,.. maybe I should have said something that night at the dinner table instead of posting my rant.

I seem to have stirred up a hornets nest here!
The point of my OP was to say how disguted I was at the attitude of that particaular person and how they seemed to see it as a right to have money coming in from the government without EVER having made a contribution themselves.

I see no problem with people who are temporarily unemployed getting assistance as at least they have worked before and have shown that they are willing to contribute to the system.

Many of the scenarios that have been detailed on this thread also seem to be genuine cases and deserve the support they get, but it is the people that collect their handouts year after year without doing something to get themselves out of that cycle that really grate on me.

Saying that, I know that there are people on long term disability etc. that need the money and depend on it. Not having a go at people who really need what they do receive. Just people who 'need' it because of nothing more than laziness.

reply to post by Revolution9


To keep it fair then Men should have the right to stay home and raise a pet.
Paid by you the taxpayer of coarse.

Originally posted by nerbot

Originally posted by Revolution9
These poor kids of non-working single mothers atleast have their mothers there for them, to make some kind of human adult in the future.

A human adult who grows up in a world of entitlement, children with little or no responsibility who know how to use the system to get a free life and think they cannot get a job because it involves work.

You have put forward only one side of the story, a side that ignores the importance of a strong father figure in a household and doesn't take into account what these single parent mothers must face when their children leave home, the benefits stop and they have no choice but to face the real world....which is why they have multiple fathers for their children and keep squeezing them out until nobody is drunk enough to say yes any more.

We are talking about a large amount of people who's natural behaviour is to lie their way through life in so many ways and delude themselves they can't do what is needed to contribute to society to make themselves part of the solution rather than the problem.

Pregnancy should come with responsibility, not a cheque, and children should have a productive homelife that sets an example so the world is not filled with couch potatoes and parasites thumbing themselves into oblivion on gadgets paid for by those who do the hard work.

I agree with your thread title, but the age of 'entitlement' is completely negative for society and stable family units become rarer. So many accidents waiting to happen.

I agree! "Mummy, Daddy". Who will answer my call? I wished there were two people there who could have done that all the days of my childhood. Was not the case!

I could give you so many scenarios and descriptions of circumstances why women end up like this! I am sure your own imagination can think of them, too!

Every word you write is common sense. Yet why is that not so out there in society? Can you really dictate to another that your way is the only way to do this? Can you tell all those women they must do it your way?

The State has taken control of every facet of our lives. The State owns all the land, the State owns all the food. The State has all the power. Must I being born into this world have no other choice than to be a slave in some low paid dead end job being bullied for my entire adult life?

Too many ills in this system. It will keep on churning out problems and unbalancing humanity and nature. That is the reall problem.

Ok, had enough now. I just wanted to stick up for the women and children I know. That is all. I think all sides are covered between these two polar opposite posts. Take your pick, but think through the consequences!

Originally posted by Sinny
reply to post by Revolution9

 

Thanks for trying to inderstand, but I actually "their" situations rather well, as 6 of my closest girlfriends from school have gone down the avenue of having children immediately after. Only one of those had a messed up background, and lack of education. The rest, simply couldn't be arsed to make an effort.

I my self have been tackling homlessness, since 14, and you might as well class me as an orphan.

So, my sympathy isn't that hard to come across. And trust me, they get more that they need to survive, I see a few of them on a weekly basis, they want for NOTHING.

Yes, I am in exactly the same situation as you, except a male. I am well struggling!

On a personal note. I think you are a cool person. I have seen a lot of your posts here. I like your style, Sinny!

Ok I am out of here!

Originally posted by Sinny
The rest, simply couldn't be arsed to make an effort.

Raising children requires effort, and one way or another they will be learning that lesson. It is not always easy to see someone suffering the consequences of a bad choice, but you can hope that they realise sometime along the way that there is no such thing as a easy ride. As you have already stated, you feel sorry for them and the choices they made, because you feel that given the long haul, you made the right one. No need to take judgement any further than that or feel as though you are missing out, because they want for nothing and you currently want for everything. You chose your path, they chose their's. No need to be bitter and judgemental about it, no one knows what goes on inside the head's of others, or the inner hardships that they face. Just be happy with your own choices, and let them worry about their's. Taxation is irrevelent, let's face it, if it wasn't going to them, it would be going on something even less worthwhile.

Raising children requires effort, and one way or another they will be learning that lesson. It is not always easy to see someone suffering the consequences of a bad choice, but you can hope that they realise sometime along the way that there is no such thing as a easy ride.

The problem with that is how many kids are getting neglected because their parents see them as nothing more than a source of income and an excuse not to work? Sure it takes some effort to raise a kid regardless of the reasons behind it, but I see a lot of these type of people that have dirty and unkempt kids, and they usually spend much of their time screaming and swearing at them, while they spend much of their time spending their checks on smokes, booze and walking around with a new iPhone. And before anyone says I'm stereotyping, my ex is exactly like that.

Taxation is irrevelent, let's face it, if it wasn't going to them, it would be going on something even less worthwhile.

Now that you can't argue with. The government certainly knows how to waste money on fivolous things. To me, if the money was spent on education for these people, so they can get the skills to rejoin the workforce, and helping with child care etc, while companies are a little more lenient towards parents, then it wouldn't be money wasted, it would be a wiser investment.

Originally posted by 74Templar
The problem with that is how many kids are getting neglected because their parents see them as nothing more than a source of income and an excuse not to work?

Plenty. There are also plenty of kids who are being raised in aflluent families who are being neglected in other ways. I know of many families where both parents work at demanding jobs, who are barely even capable of looking after themselves, let alone their children, but they pay others to do so, with little eye on the long term effects on those children's emotional stablity. We can point the fingers in several directions, and poke our noses through the gaps in all kinds of socially divergent households and find areas to criticise. There is good and bad, but in the end, we have to accept our own responsibilities, and the consequences of our own actions, and give others the freedom to do the same.

Originally posted by 74Templar
Sure it takes some effort to raise a kid regardless of the reasons behind it, but I see a lot of these type of people that have dirty and unkempt kids, and they usually spend much of their time screaming and swearing at them, while they spend much of their time spending their checks on smokes, booze and walking around with a new iPhone.

You see those people because they are generally obvious, they are the ones who are pilloried. Abuse happens right across the social strata, but some get away with it, while others do not. It takes enormous effort to raise a child well, not everyone takes it as seriously, many of the more affluent households, see children as little more than accessories, at least those who are on benefits have a present and dedicated parent. Not all of the well to dos, do.

Originally posted by 74Templar
And before anyone says I'm stereotyping, my ex is exactly like that.

I am sorry that you made a bad choice in whom to have children with, but if you are aware of the problems, you are at least in a position to compensate your children for that bad choice.

Originally posted by 74Templar
Now that you can't argue with. The government certainly knows how to waste money on fivolous things. To me, if the money was spent on education for these people, so they can get the skills to rejoin the workforce, and helping with child care etc, while companies are a little more lenient towards parents, then it wouldn't be money wasted, it would be a wiser investment.

Education will always be at the back of the queue in terms of funding, which is why, as 'good' parents, we have to ensure that we are present and effective in supporting that education. I don't see support rewarding parents for going to work, at the expense of cutting funding for parents who stay at home...a child needs it's parent, not a paid carer.

If, as humans, we have no choice in where we live or the choice to live off the land (it is Earth after all, not a business) responsibly and if we have no choice in whether we work with the alternative being poverty, homelessness and vagrancy charges, then what are we?

Free humans?

Nah, we're slaves.

Some government entity owns all of the free land and says it is illegal to camp. No free will to choose where I live, forced to pay for rent with a job I am forced to work in.

slaves. only the slave owners get to choose.

reply to post by Revolution9


women never knew how easy they had it as housewives. it was better for the family too as the kids could get the attention they needed to grow up with healthy family values. not to mention an appreciative husband getting a hot home made meal made by the hands of love.

why must humans seek to defy everything even when it's better for them that they dont... sih

reply to post by 0mage


I think that the assumption that being a 'housewife' is in any way easy has been somewhat shattered by the experiences of househusbands who have helped vocalise the often thankless, tedium that is staying at home to tend to children and the household chores. It can be incredibly isolating and demoralising these days to be a stay-at-home parent given the different age ranges at which people are choosing to procreate. And while cooking can provide a creative outlet at times, it hardly replaces the stimulation of conversation and companionship that the work place is often able to provide. I presume that it is this disparity of experience, and intellectual stimulation that often leads to couples falling out of touch with each other, while one is confined and the other free to roam, and it seems that it is this disparity that has influence on the minds of the children and their emotional development, leaving them craving the attention of one, and rejecting the needy attentions of the other.

I think too many people are under the false assumptions that ....

1. Being a full time parent (male or female) isn't a job.
If the parent they're b*tching about isn't doing their job, call CPS and have them fired.

2. If everyone collecting "aid" of some kind was to go out and find a "paying" job, the government(s) would give them their money back or lower their taxes.
as if!

reply to post by Revolution9


I agree. There are single woman however here in North America who live on social assistance their whole lives having a plathura of children to even get more money from the Goverment. This I do not agree with.

Both my husband and I work very hard to keep our finances afloat and to make sure our children are well taken care of. When I was pregnant for our first child, we had discussed who would stay home (maternity leave) for the 1 year that was allowed to us. I did naturally.

Then came baby #2, my husband wanted a turn at it. So he stayed home with both of our children for just under a year. And I was %100 ok with that.

Unfortunately, neither one of us was able to stay home with them full time until they went to school as we just plain couldn't afford it. But I am sure that if he or I had decided to anyways, we would have worked it out (financially) one way or another

reply to post by Biliverdin


i both understand and knew that someone would respond like this. and i am sorry that your husbands treat you that way. nor am i saying it's easy like 'easy'. but i mean it was simpler, less complicated. and there are some things that not all women are knowledgeable about.

simple things a woman must also do as a housewife:

- u can slack off but make sure to make urself presentable every now and again. keeping the old bat of the house look is hardly welcoming after some time and u got to keep a man both interested and entertained.

- keep the house clean and spend a week or 2 at your mother's every year. so the family will miss you and appreciate what u do when it's temporarily gone. tho shortlived as they will eventually go back to their apathetic nature about everything u do. that's human's for ya what can you do?

- cook with love

- choose fun and positivity over emotional outbursts and constant nagging or complaining. such things are what creates hell on earth for a man condemned to live such a life in a box with such a person.

- do everything with love and do not complain

- stay attractive. especially if u have a sexually inclined husband. u must keep urself attractive for him. even if he is out of shape.

all these things a woman should do silently and be the silent rod of the family. providing it its backbone and the man of the house the confidence and security to be a better husband. it is not a tireless or relentless act. it should be a natural act because these things should be done.

u can construct that build it yourself cupboard set and include all the screws.. or u can leave out a few because u dont think them important to the structure. later on after the mistakes u can realize what purpose those screws had.

there's actually a section of the bible that teaches all these things. it is an insight into the psychology of humans. and understanding this psychology gives u a great advantage in understanding what drives the actions of the average human mind.

e.g. - do not visit your neighbour's house too often. even bringing gifts. the neighbour will grow weary of you.

paraphrased.. but what it's saying is.. ppl like their alone time where things can be just the way they are accustomed to. if they are deprived of that for too long they will start to get irritable.

even the koran has good guidance as does hindu manuscripts. they teach truth.. ways to avoid your husband being jealous, to keep him interested, attracted to you etc. for some the requirements may seem like too much.. but if you want your marriage to work then it is the best way. dont take away a man's manhood. allow him to be a man. the ferocious tiger u loved when u first met. the arrogant clown everyone else thought he was etc. his strong willed and confident persona is what attracted u to him.

just as a woman is attracted to a confident and stable man. a man is attracted to a woman that does his laundry. ill even give u a secret. the majority of men i think are actually turned on by seeing their wives (in a loving relationship) doing chores like washing their laundry and cooking etc. this is why many men end up sleeping with the maid. especially if the mother has not much tiime for the kids and the maid is doing the babysitting and basically raising the kids the majority of time.

there are things required on boths sides to keep a marriage going.. it's not impossible to have a beautiful marriage till death do u part. what is required is devotion to the pillars you are assigned. teamwork. if im the best hitter and your the best catcher then i will bat and you will hold a field position. but just because u are assigned a position doesnt mean that you should seek to assign urself whatever position u want.. most often than not in such a rebellious effort.. the opposite of what u were assigned. so they assigned u field and u decide to rebel and assign urself bat. there can only be one batter at any point in time. so curiousity kills the cat because it's ruining the entire game.

Originally posted by 0mage
reply to post by Biliverdin

 

i both understand and knew that someone would respond like this. and i am sorry that your husbands treat you that way. nor am i saying it's easy like 'easy'. but i mean it was simpler, less complicated. and there are some things that not all women are knowledgeable about.

I don't, and never have had, one husband...let alone 'husbands'...though, polyandry definately holds certain appeals for me...I'd consider it should the opportunity arise.

Originally posted by 0mage
simple things a woman must also do as a housewife:

Tell your wife...your opinion on how a housewife should and should not behave, that is between you and your wife, and should remain between the two of you, because that is what you want, not what everyone else wants.

Let me tell you something, the sexiest man I ever met, wore clothes that smelt and felt like a woman had done it for him, but I knew that he only had himself to do those things. I could barely keep my hands off him, nothing so attractive to me as a man who knows how to take care of the basics, I can find other things that I am good at doing for him...and hopefully, likewise.

Different strokes for different folks...and long may it be so. I want what I want, and you want what you want. What is important here, is that we have the choice.

End of story.

reply to post by Biliverdin


either way.. u recognize that there are things u must do. still i feel that after 10 years of marriage with a child or 2 u will begin to see the sense in the things im talking about. there are certain things that appeal to the primal psychology of a man in today's world and they must be fed lest the marriage become unbalanced.

all relationships are great at the beginning. it seems like sex and love can drive everything. until the financial stability starts taking it's toll. until the neighbour starts coming over in her shortest shorts too regularly. until after years or months of emotional put downs the man meets a woman on the street who has nothing but positivity to fill his mind. and if she is attracted to him.. well.. good luck getting his conscience to side with the nag at home. i just mentioned a few basic elements. not the be all and end all as of course i havent listed all of them. and im only speaking one sided because this thread seems to be made by a woman on the topic of women. men have things they must do too.

but i digress.. my aim is not to say a woman doesnt have the right to work or stay home if she pleases. it is absolutely her right as any human being to choose whichever path she wants. just it may not gather the permanent results she's hoping for in something like a marriage lasting 50 years with both staying deeply in love with eachother all thru.

but this would hardly appeal to a woman who likes multiple partners or is not ready to settle down

reply to post by 0mage


Haha...I never said I like multiple partners, just that the only type of marriage I would probably consider was polyandry. I currently do not have any partner, nor any immediate prospects of having one. Which is fine, I have enough on my plate to keep me out of mischief.

I have a child and well know the commitment required to raise children. Which is why I stuck with one, what I could afford, both financially and in the time required in devotion to my child's upbringing. Neither I, nor my child, want for anything, and while my relationship with his father failed, I have worked hard to ensure that he is not excluded from his son's upbringing despite the difficulties that entailed. I have experienced both staying at home, as a full time mother, and being the bread winner, while his father stayed home. I now am fortunate enough to have employment that allows me the freedom to have the best of both worlds. This further enables me not to require my son's father to have to contribute to his child's maintenance, and instead, he can spend the money directly on his son when they get to spend time with each other.

We all have to work to do the best with the hand that is dealt to us, enjoy what we have, and leave off with the need to criticise and judge others. We all make mistakes, but it is how we carry on forward from that that matters.

Nope. If it was up to me you can't expect from society without giving to society.

So if you don't work you also should not get social security.

I'm fighting for that.

Originally posted by Revolution9
reply to post by nerbot

 

I am sure income tax is subsidizing in some part the transport network.

But you blame road users regardless of knowing the facts? THAT is the mentality that causes the delusions of 'entitlement'.

Do you walk or cycle everywhere? If not, then the buses you ride and the friends and family who use the roads deserve your gratitude for paying the taxes involved. I think tax on the fuels also contributes, don't forget that.

But may be you know the budget better than I and what goes where.

I have not lived in the UK for years and do not claim to know the budget regarding road use taxes which is why I said 'I think', unlike you who say 'I'm sure', yet you presume to know what you admit you don't.

I am just sticking up for single mothers (and dads, too) who want to devote their attention full time to their children!

No, you are sticking up for a mentality that involves living off the hard work and commitment of others which some of us don't agree with.

Originally posted by Biliverdin
reply to post by 0mage

 

Haha...I never said I like multiple partners, just that the only type of marriage I would probably consider was polyandry. I currently do not have any partner, nor any immediate prospects of having one. Which is fine, I have enough on my plate to keep me out of mischief.

I have a child and well know the commitment required to raise children. Which is why I stuck with one, what I could afford, both financially and in the time required in devotion to my child's upbringing. Neither I, nor my child, want for anything, and while my relationship with his father failed, I have worked hard to ensure that he is not excluded from his son's upbringing despite the difficulties that entailed. I have experienced both staying at home, as a full time mother, and being the bread winner, while his father stayed home. I now am fortunate enough to have employment that allows me the freedom to have the best of both worlds. This further enables me not to require my son's father to have to contribute to his child's maintenance, and instead, he can spend the money directly on his son when they get to spend time with each other.

We all have to work to do the best with the hand that is dealt to us, enjoy what we have, and leave off with the need to criticise and judge others. We all make mistakes, but it is how we carry on forward from that that matters.

edit on 30-9-2012 by Biliverdin because: (no reason given)

u sound like a wonderful person and parent. im sorry things didnt work out with ur husband. im sure ur quite beautiful and attractive as well. i hope some day to procure me a wife as open minded and intelligent as you. but i intend to keep my family together.. one thing my wife wont have to worry about is me being unfaithful. i hope to make some girl feel very blessed one day when she looks back at our years of marriage.