Women have the human right to choose to work or not when they are bringing up kids.

This thread is a response to this thread:

I never worked and never will

I am posting this thread to give another side of that arguement as I find so many of the comments expressed in that thread to be most disturbing, ignorant and downright socially dangerous.

What I read here, the attitudes of you guys, really disgusts me to the core!

Your comments are full of bigotry, prejudice, inhumanity and oppression of women.

I write this reply on the premise that WOMEN HAVE A RIGHT IN SOCIETY TO CHOOSE WHETHER TO WORK OR NOT WHEN THEY ARE BRINGING UP CHILDREN.

I would even go as far to say that ALL people have a right whether to choose to be part of the labour force and machine of societies or not. It is the freedom and the right to choose. The authorities own all the land and resources. We can't just go off and do our own thing anymore so the authorities should atleast subsidize to a degree those who cannot fit in with the very fascist authoritarian work place.

Do you know how much of the tax we are paying actually gets used in benefits? I would imagine that if you knew the figures they would actually be miniscule in comparison to say the defense budget or bank bailouts, etc.

As a man who had a childhood with his mother absent I KNOW what a curse it is to be deprived of the affection of one's mother through childhood and how that can have very dangerous and severe repercussions in adult life. These poor kids of non-working single mothers atleast have their mothers there for them, to make some kind of human adult in the future.

You BLAME these women for doing this? Your blame is misplaced. I tell you none of these women actually want their lives to be like that. We all want a stable partner and an income that can allow us to aspire to the greater things in life. The reality of life and society is that not everyone can have this.

Sooner blame all the idiot young men who don't know how to make a relationship work or stick to one woman. Blame the authorities for deliberately breaking up the nuclear family for economic purposes and business profiteering.

You are just singling out a group of women who have no voice. All the single women I know are full of love for their kids and do the best they can for them, given the circumstances and the vulnerability of this social group.

I think you people are bigots. I bet you would not want your own daughter or sister to starve if she was in that situation. Would your really say to her that she and her kids can starve to death because you don't want to pay a few pennies out of your tax?

If the ideas expressed by some of you guys were ever actually put into place can you imagine what would happen? Think about that (if you are able to actually walk in another's shoes and have enough imagination to do so)! There would be starvation, prostitution on a huge level, kids with no clothes, kids starving like in Africa, rapant disease (which you might catch because it will be on YOUR DOOR STEP).

Well, thank goodness, people like you will never have any power to put into practise your barbaric prejudices.

There are not enough jobs anyway. Women have a human right to concentrate on bringing up their children full time if they so choose. I am happy to pay taxes to support them. Their partners should be made to support them finacially. If they get a woman pregnant they are the father of the child. Society should make the man pay towards the maintenance of that child.

Those descriptions of women dripping in gold while their children go barefoot do not happen in the UK. If that were the case then social services would be called in instantly. May be in the U.S that happens. I don't know because I do not live there.

So why don't you think about the consequences a little more. You are just being tight and greedy and trying to shirk YOUR responsibilities to play a part in making the society in which you live more humane, less impoverished and making sure that ALL children no matter who they are atleast are assured some level of material care.

So get off your high horses and think before you speak! Know your song well before you start singing!

Originally posted by Revolution9
I write this reply on the premise that WOMEN HAVE A RIGHT IN SOCIETY TO CHOOSE WHETHER TO WORK OR NOT WHEN THEY ARE BRINGING UP CHILDREN.

If it is a human right, then why don't men have it?

Besides, how come these 'human rights' always seem to be need to be paid by someone else?

reply to post by Revolution9


It's your choice to have sex.
It's your choice to stay pregnant.
It's your choice to not work .
It's your choice to do what ever you want.
It's your choice to find food.
It's your choice to cloth your baby.
It's your choice to do what ever YOU want.

It's not really my choice to pay you with my money so you can do these things now is it?
What in the world happened to my choice?

You want to stay home?
Get a husband.

Now if you want payed/unpayed leave for half a year then take that up with your employer. I wouldn't bring a kid in here I couldn't feed. That's stupid. It's YOUR fault. Not anyone elses if you can't take care of YOUR baby.

Get a non loser boy friend to help out, or stay with Mommy...




Oh # guys... I just bought a car and I can't afford the payments, you better raise taxes... You know why? It was my choice to get that car. I deserve my choice! Oh but you can't choose whether to pay taxes or not, you don't have a choice.. K? sounds good.

reply to post by ollncasino


Your future medical bill is paid by loads of other people if you get state subsidized medical care when ill!

That is social development, a move to greater shared responsibility. That is what income tax is partly supposed to be about.

I assure you that if we took tax away we would all be more impoverished except for the most ruthless, greedy and rich!

I stated that I believe men should have that right, too! Yet they don't. That is not my fault. I think nearly all people would rather be part of the work force, even if given the choice. I think men are geared to work and a lot of those who cannot cope with the authoritarian work force could have more sheltered employment doing basic conservation work on a voluntary basis. There are many many ideas about that. I don't claim to have all the answers. I am just saying that the way things are is that single mothers and children would be far worse off if their were no state help!

I am just giving another side to this important debate and as I believe sticking up for single mothers and kids with no resident dad.

reply to post by Dustytoad


It's not really my choice to pay for our state pension or the roads on which you drive. I hate cars and don't have one for environmental reasons. Yet I still have to pay for the road on which you drive. I still might have to pay for your pension or your medical bill.

I am happy to do that if you are happy to help out with the poor kids and single mothers.

Is that a deal? Lol!

Originally posted by Revolution9
These poor kids of non-working single mothers atleast have their mothers there for them, to make some kind of human adult in the future.

A human adult who grows up in a world of entitlement, children with little or no responsibility who know how to use the system to get a free life and think they cannot get a job because it involves work.

You have put forward only one side of the story, a side that ignores the importance of a strong father figure in a household and doesn't take into account what these single parent mothers must face when their children leave home, the benefits stop and they have no choice but to face the real world....which is why they have multiple fathers for their children and keep squeezing them out until nobody is drunk enough to say yes any more.

We are talking about a large amount of people who's natural behaviour is to lie their way through life in so many ways and delude themselves they can't do what is needed to contribute to society to make themselves part of the solution rather than the problem.

Pregnancy should come with responsibility, not a cheque, and children should have a productive homelife that sets an example so the world is not filled with couch potatoes and parasites thumbing themselves into oblivion on gadgets paid for by those who do the hard work.

I agree with your thread title, but the age of 'entitlement' is completely negative for society and stable family units become rarer. So many accidents waiting to happen.

I read that thread and felt bad...because,10 years ago I took (emergency)custody of my children,quit my job,and went on assistance to be a full time dad.The mother is estranged to this day.The tables are turned in my case.Kids are a hell of a load and I respect their proper upbringing.So I think I know it all?I highly doubt it....

Originally posted by Revolution9
I hate cars and don't have one for environmental reasons. Yet I still have to pay for the road on which you drive.

I thought that was paid for with 'Tax Disks' by people with cars?

reply to post by Dustytoad


"Yonder stands your orphan with his gun
Crying like a fire in the sun" Bob Dylan "It's All Over Now Baby Blue".

Think about this. I been there, man! It ain't nice. Luckily I had a brain not to be more emotionall #ed up and deranged as a result of not being brought up by my real Ma and Pa!

I assure you that some of the kids I went to school with have cost you an awful lot more in terms of crimes, probation services and prisons.

We got some major issues here now there is no support or emphasis on the nuclear family.

I am sticking up for women here, but at the same time I would say to women has your feminism and independence not created a few social ills? I say to the authorities has your breaking up of the traditional family really done any favours to society? I am just raising questions.

Single non working mothers are a really bad idea when there is no dad bringing home the bacon.

Like you say; don't have kids if you can't give them a proper mum and dad. But what is a proper mum and dad?

I am just trying to say that at the moment it is the only way we can do this thing. That is all. It is by no means ideal!

Originally posted by SarnholeOntarable
I read that thread and felt bad...because,10 years ago I took (emergency)custody of my children,quit my job,and went on assistance to be a full time dad.The mother is estranged to this day.The tables are turned in my case.Kids are a hell of a load and I respect their proper upbringing.So I think I know it all?I highly doubt it....

Yes my friend. With you all the way! Bless your every move!

Atleast we are highlighting here that it is not all black and white. There are a much more diverse set of circumstances goin' down!

Good luck all the way to you and those in your care!

I AM A WOMAN.

I refuse to have a child until, my higher education is over, and I can earn enough to put a roof over our heads, buy our food, buy our own clothes, and hopefully with a committed partner.

I COULD HAVE: Left school, got pregnant, got a FREE flat, and FREE everything. Like a whole lot o people I know have done.

THE BENEFITS AREN'T A LOT? MAYBE NOT COMPARED TO THE DEFENSE BUDGET, BUT YOU KNOW WHAT? ITS STILL DARN TOO MUCH, WHEN MY TAXES PROVIDE THEM WITH A STANDARD OF LIVING I CANNY AFFORD MY SELF.

YES: Women have a choice to work or not, HOWEVER, that choice shouldn't be at the expense of every body else.

THIS IS WHY WE HAVE A NEW "HIGH RISE FLAT = 3 BABY" CULTURE.

I laugh at there sad existences, but I know they laugh at me, muggings here, paying for it.

reply to post by SarnholeOntarable


Government assistance is exactly for people like you, who have difficult stuff to deal with through no fault of their own. No-one could argue that you didn't do the right thing, and I'm sure you have fabulous kids due to your own hard work. You paid tax when you were working and got help when you needed it.

Government assistance is not for people who reproduce at will to live a non-working non-productive unhealthy life. If you want to do that, it's entirely your right, of course...just pay for it yourself.

reply to post by nerbot


I am sure income tax is subsidizing in some part the transport network.

But may be you know the budget better than I and what goes where. I am just sticking up for single mothers (and dads, too) who want to devote their attention full time to their children!

i must say i kindly disagree, its not a human right to not work, no matter how
your logic twists the idea here, in complete honesty and without adding to the
base line of human existence this is how it would work.

human is alive and say 20 or so years old, without modern society there are
only a few choices here, die flat out without trying, steal from those whom
you come into contact with, or work to build your own life and get what you
need to survive. its simple really, if you want to have your life a certain way
then live it that way, but you have to do the work.

otherwise what your really saying to me and taxpayers is that because
you chose to sleep with someone and have off spring its my job to
pay your way. no i do not accept responsibility for you or your children
as i had no say in whether or not you had them or how you get to live
off what you take from me. it is cold and it hurts but its also true.

ive said this before, i don't mind helping people but i will not ever
submit to slavery for you and your children because you believe
you are entitled to my hard earned money. this is not wrong
because i have free will just like you do. you live with the consequences
of your choices just like i am forced to live with mine.

you were not forced to have children and if you were then that might
change my attitude but until i learn different you are exactly whats
wrong with this country, i will say this clearly once more.
YOU ARE NOT ENTITLED TO THE FRUITS OF MY HARD WORK.
you may get them but it doesn't mean you deserve them.
say thank you and move along......

Originally posted by Revolution9
reply to post by Dustytoad

 

It's not really my choice to pay for our state pension or the roads on which you drive. I hate cars and don't have one for environmental reasons. Yet I still have to pay for the road on which you drive. I still might have to pay for your pension or your medical bill.

I am happy to do that if you are happy to help out with the poor kids and single mothers.

Is that a deal? Lol!

NO.

I don't have a car and never had a license... I do not drive. It is my choice not to have a license and I don't expect you to pay for cab rides for me. I don't go to doctors, nor have I ever had insurance, and I don't get any government money. I have no pension or a job. Luckily I do have a bit of saved money and a Girlfriend, to help out.

So No deal.

Fix your stuff for YOU. Your baby is NOT public. The Roads ARE public. Schools ARE public. Your baby is yours, unless you want to surrender that to government control too?

If I jump off a bridge I am not going to turn to anyone and say "my life was YOUR responsibility!"

It is MINE.

reply to post by Revolution9


I think you're really failing to see the actual point of the thread you mentioned, and your knee-jerk reaction to it shows just how ignorant you are of both sides of the story.

The OP wasn't bashing single mothers who choose to stay with their children rather than work, it was more aimed at these people who leave school, get knocked up every few years to avoid working, because they have NO intention of ever working, when the government pays for everything for them. It's like a never ending free lunch at someone else's expense. So would you be happy paying for someone who has their hands in your pocket all day long for their every whim? While you bust your ass day in day out and they brag about never having to work a day because the government will provide everything they need at the working man's expense?

I ask you this. Are you in a position where you have kids and have to look after them? Do you still try to make ends meet for their benefit, or do you just expect a handout from the welfare to pay your way? Because unless you see both sides of the fence, I suggest you go back and do some reading then some research into how it really is for single parents. It is people's right to stay home and look after their kids, especially in this day and age. It's another thing to deliberately live off welfare with no intention of working ever, and use the system to sit at home on your arse living for handouts. You should look up the difference.

Originally posted by Sinny
I AM A WOMAN.

I refuse to have a child until, my higher education is over, and I can earn enough to put a roof over our heads, buy our food, buy our own clothes, and hopefully with a committed partner.

I COULD HAVE: Left school, got pregnant, got a FREE flat, and FREE everything. Like a whole lot o people I know have done.

THE BENEFITS AREN'T A LOT? MAYBE NOT COMPARED TO THE DEFENSE BUDGET, BUT YOU KNOW WHAT? ITS STILL DARN TOO MUCH, WHEN MY TAXES PROVIDE THEM WITH A STANDARD OF LIVING I CANNY AFFORD MY SELF.

YES: Women have a choice to work or not, HOWEVER, that choice shouldn't be at the expense of every body else.

THIS IS WHY WE HAVE A NEW "HIGH RISE FLAT = 3 BABY" CULTURE.

I laugh at there sad existences, but I know they laugh at me, muggings here, paying for it.

edit on 30-9-2012 by Sinny because: (no reason given)

I am feeling you. I even just gave you a star.

I am just saying don't blame these women, men and kids who are not so bright as you. Even don't blame those young girls who see it as a way to getting atleast their own place and getting away from messed up families, etc.

Someone like you is not going to be messed up because you are a bright person. However, not everyone can be like you my friend. I wish they could, I really do.

So I am wishing you well in your development and your career, a happy marriage, long lasting partner and beautiful kids (if that is what you choose). But if life rewards you please look after those idiots who have messed up. Please spare a thought (and a few pennies) for alternative people who are really struggling with this authoritarian and quite frankly marxist work environment.

Those women you see with more than you, it is not the state giving them that. The state only gives them enough to really survive very basically. They are obviously going out with dodgy men or doing something naughty. It is only a minority doing that. You are may be feeling the clinche and the injustice of our present economy. But please don't go looking for scapegoats among the poor. They don't deserve that. Sooner look to those in power who are doing this to us all.

reply to post by Revolution9


Yeah OK their choice but no social security benefits whatsoever unless they try to work i.e part time. If there are no jobs in the area well move...... no excuses. No work = no money. It is that simple. I want my taxes to go into roads, education, health and other worthwhile infrastructure that benefits everyone in the community.

If you think single parents deserve any benefit for their lifestyle choice at the expense of people who work (and yes no one wants to work but have to) you pay for it out if your own pocket and don't steal from the workers that carry them and pay taxes they see no return from whatsoever.


Is it fair others who work hard should fund someone's lifestyle choice? No Way!!

Originally posted by phatpackage
reply to post by Revolution9

 

Yeah OK their choice but no social security benefits whatsoever unless they try to work i.e part time. If there are no jobs in the area well move...... no excuses. No work = no money. It is that simple. I want my taxes to go into roads, education, health and other worthwhile infrastructure that benefits everyone in the community.

If you think single parents deserve any benefit for their lifestyle choice at the expense of people who work (and yes no one wants to work but have to) you pay for it out if your own pocket and don't steal from the workers that carry them and pay taxes they see no return from whatsoever.

You seem to live a fantasy communist world where some can just steal money under the guise of "social security" to maintain a lifestyle choice.

Is it fair others who work hard should fund someone's lifestyle choice? No Way!!

edit on 30-9-2012 by phatpackage because: (no reason given)

You feel like that! You go lobby for it then. If you eventually get your way I predict it will come back and haunt you or your loved ones. It will be in the form of a mugger with a gun or knife may be. Getting my "point"?

I am sticking up for you, too. You just don't know that yet!

reply to post by phatpackage


I gave you a star for your contribution. Thanks for giving that side.