It's Over! - China Selling Oil in Yuan?

reply to post by mobiusmale
Yep. Many here have no idea how when the whole Country gets behind one goal and they ramp up every Production Facility to crank out Military hardware how fast it can happen in this Country. Imagine in WW2 basically everyone was making something for the Military.

reply to post by detachedindividual


I would have to agree with you here. I read the same original article as the OP, did a little research on the history of the petrodollar, and got scared. Unfortunately, I dropped the ball on my fact checking, because for the last half hour, I have searched, re-searched, and read a ton of really boring economic articles, but nowhere did I find any mention of this outside blogs that all cite Lindsey Williams. I too, call BS.

here is what an economist had to say about china: The US economy is still the biggest in the world by a large margin. The military, which we are not afraid to use, is the most powerful. Until another country holds title to either one of these claims, our reserve currency status will likely remain intact. While it feels as if China will surpass us soon as they maintain their rapid growth, they are still many trillions of dollars in GDP away. Think about this - if the US is the world's largest customer, and China has become richer by selling to us, is China really going to tell us which currency we can spend? Don't we dictate what currency we are willing to give them? Who is truly in charge? If China stops accepting dollars, could we not easily find a group of other nations to do business with? Would us dumping China as a business partner not cause other nations to line up to take China's place? Would any of these other nations refuse to do business with us in US Dollars?

Until China or another country surpasses us as the world's largest economy or strongest military, loss of our reserve currency status is not imminent, as sellers of fear would like you to believe.

Granted, China is growing at roughly 10% a year, and we are only growing at 3%. I get that. Let's do the math though and see if we should worry. If China is a $6 trillion economy, growing at 10%, they grow by $600 billion a year. If we are a $14 trillion economy growing at 3%, we grow by $420 billion a year. In this close to reality example, China is closing the gap at $180 billion a year. At this rate - it will take China 44 years to even match the US in GDP. Can they continue to grow at 10% a year, while their largest customer grows at 3% for 44 straight years? We are a far cry from no longer being the largest economy. The biggest economy in the world should be blessed with the reserve currency.


i dont think we need to worry about an economic collapse any time soon.



seekingalpha.com...

Originally posted by lonewolf10
here is what an economist had to say about china: The US economy is still the biggest in the world by a large margin. The military, which we are not afraid to use, is the most powerful. Until another country holds title to either one of these claims, our reserve currency status will likely remain intact. While it feels as if China will surpass us soon as they maintain their rapid growth, they are still many trillions of dollars in GDP away. Think about this - if the US is the world's largest customer, and China has become richer by selling to us, is China really going to tell us which currency we can spend? Don't we dictate what currency we are willing to give them? Who is truly in charge? If China stops accepting dollars, could we not easily find a group of other nations to do business with? Would us dumping China as a business partner not cause other nations to line up to take China's place? Would any of these other nations refuse to do business with us in US Dollars?

Until China or another country surpasses us as the world's largest economy or strongest military, loss of our reserve currency status is not imminent, as sellers of fear would like you to believe.

Granted, China is growing at roughly 10% a year, and we are only growing at 3%. I get that. Let's do the math though and see if we should worry. If China is a $6 trillion economy, growing at 10%, they grow by $600 billion a year. If we are a $14 trillion economy growing at 3%, we grow by $420 billion a year. In this close to reality example, China is closing the gap at $180 billion a year. At this rate - it will take China 44 years to even match the US in GDP. Can they continue to grow at 10% a year, while their largest customer grows at 3% for 44 straight years? We are a far cry from no longer being the largest economy. The biggest economy in the world should be blessed with the reserve currency.


i dont think we need to worry about an economic collapse any time soon.



seekingalpha.com...

edit on 30-9-2012 by lonewolf10 because: fhgh

It looks like Normalcy bias is kicking in for some. Yeah everything is fine nothing to worry about the article can't be proven etc etc.

I agree that the article has not been proven and I implied that in the OP. However the Corroborating evidence in the article has me leaning toward it being true.

Having said that there are other factors unrelated that show beyond doubt we are heading for a collapse even if the OP is not true. If you think we are not headed for a collapse you have your head in the sand... I posted another thread that talks about why things will look pretty normal right up till the collapse if anyone is interested...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by detachedindividual


Kid, the western media keeps many things from us. Just because you can't easily find it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. How about Iraq going off the petrodollar 6 months before 911? People didn't talk about that. Or Libya trying to use the gold dinar instead of USD before we helped take out Ghadaffi? We didn't hear about these things until later.

I wonder though, even apart from what the OP claims, that with all the QE in the world, fiat currency is heading for disaster anyway. China's moves to push its own currency as a reserve will be the least of our worries. There's many more ways to collapse a world economy.

reply to post by hawkiye


In no way, shape, or form am I claiming everything is ok. But knowing that this particular story is not verifiable, gives me hope that collapse is not imminent, and that we have more time to prepare. The state of the economy is bleak, for sure, but speading rumors just adds to the collective angst.

Originally posted by mobiusmale
So, China is going to pay for Russian oil with Yuan...therefore the U.S. Dollar is going to collapse, our economy is going to tank, and we are all going to die in WWIII.

Hmmm...a few counter points.

1) If demand for the Dollar goes down somewhat because the portion of China's oil imports that come from Russia are paid for in domestic currency...then the value of the Dollar will slide somewhat...making American manufactured goods cheaper on international markets...increasing demand...putting new up-pressure on the value of the Dollar.

2) If China were to do something that created a sudden and steep drop in the U.S. Dollar (let's say it dropped in value 50%)...it would suddenly find that it's manufactured goods are no longer relatively cheap in the U.S. or elsewhere. Its Export economy would collapse overnight...because it has not yet developed a large enough middle-class in China to take up the production losses.

3) Oh, and China would lose about $600 billion in the former value of its U.S. Debt held...not that that would be a huge problem overall.

4) Right now, the Chinese Yuan is pegged to the U.S. Dollar in daily trading (just watch the daily currency charts). If they did not unhook...their currency would dive right along with the U.S currency...which people here are claiming would spell disaster. If they floated their currency away from the U.S. Dollar, and for some reason the Yuan then rose strongly against the Dollar - they would out of business in America (not to mention the rest of the world...see number 2 above).

It will be interesting to see if this new currency agreement on oil trades between China and Russia has any effect on U.S. Dollar values...I rather doubt it personally. But, if it does, I can see nothing but positive things coming to the U.S. economy as a result.

Economic Armageddon? I think not. WWWIII...why exactly again?

Good points I am glad you brought them up. Here is what you are missing; the whole world has had to buy oil in US dollars they know our debt is unsustainable or they would have gotten out of the dollar sooner but couldn't if they wanted to continue to buy oil. Now they can and guess what they will start unloading our treasuries since they don't need them to buy oil anymore.

China also knows it is upside down in US treasuries they have known it for years they know it was a bad investment and have spent the last several years preparing to cut their losses dump them. They have already stopped buying them. They have been buying gold like gangbusters, why? Just for this reason if they are going to lose their ass when the US dollar crashes then they might as well set themselves up as the next reserve currency BACKED BY GOLD no less. Selling oil in the Yaun is just the first step. Soon there will be a new gold backed currency.

How long do you think it will take for a gold back currency to beat out the failing dollar in the market place? China knows the US market will not last forever this is just a preemptive strike to take control of the inevitable and position themselves as the beneficiaries of the crash by becoming the new producers of the world reserve currency.

As for War if you think the US corporate government will give up its status as the world reserve currency and super power willingly you are being naive IMO. As someone has said the Mayans thought everything was fine right up until their resources ran out...

Originally posted by lonewolf10
Would us dumping China as a business partner not cause other nations to line up to take China's place? Would any of these other nations refuse to do business with us in US Dollars?

Until China or another country surpasses us as the world's largest economy or strongest military, loss of our reserve currency status is not imminent, as sellers of fear would like you to believe.

Yes, and in fact, competitors to China are already lining up...Vietnam, the Philippines, Thailand, India...

In truth, China still needs to prove that it is not an economic flash in the pan. America has been the world's leading manufacturer for 110 years running...and the leading economic, and military force over 70 years. The EU is now (I believe) the largest trading block in the world.

Time will tell where next the economic balance will be found. But to think that the U.S. is suddenly going to implode on all fronts, I think, is highly unlikely.

Remember all that ammo DHS purchased? Well now here is an article about them now purchasing a large cache of weapons:

www.activistpost.com...

Think the government might know something the we don't? Just food for thought...

As far as I can see, america is a Old big fat Parasite!
and I hope the rest of the world can escape from it.
and let the flabby thing Die.

help teach the rest of the world a good lesson.

reply to post by hawkiye


We can counter with gold but first we need to get rid of the Illegal Marxist Muslim.

reply to post by BRIGHT STAR


You know someting ?
China tired of dollar and turn to backed its currency with gold.
Ta daaaa - introducing new world reserve currency - reminbi!

Oh wait, I just fantasizing, silly me.
If that happen I wonder if Fort Knox have any gold left to brag.

Originally posted by buddha
As far as I can see, america is a Old big fat Parasite!
and I hope the rest of the world can escape from it.
and let the flabby thing Die.

help teach the rest of the world a good lesson.

If I thought like you my mood would probably match yours. If the US falls do you really think some shinning knight of a country will come and make everything OK? Will you poop rainbows that smell like lavender and ride a giant unicorn named Bob?




The truth is pretty simple to see. Many people would suffer. Many good hard working people.



And you say the rest of the world could escape. The rest of the world is just as screwed up. The world is filled with hate and is being isolated inside walls of circuit boards.




I often wonder why people would wish such terrible things. The only thing you need to escape is your hate.

Are there any economic, financial, or international political analysts on ATS who we could speak to? When I say analyst, I mean somebody who has studied economics, finance, international business, etc. at university. It would be good to get their point of view.

reply to post by hawkiye


I'm not really sure what this means, but it is indeed quite the coincidence.

Natty Bumpo is the main character in the deerslayer. Also, in the last of the mohicans he was known as Nathaniel Hawkeye.

“On Thursday, Sept. 6… just a few days ago, China made the official announcement. China said on that day, our banking system is ready, all of our communication systems are ready, all of the transfer systems are ready, and as of that day, Thursday, Sept. 6, any nation in the world that wishes from this point on, to buy, sell, or trade crude oil, can do using the Chinese currency, not the American dollar. – Interview with Natty Bumpo on the Just Measures Radio network, Sept. 11

Originally posted by lonewolf10

i dont think we need to worry about an economic collapse any time soon.

I must agree with your analysis. What people also forget, is that China is what China is, because the US punished Japan, by moving most of it's industry to Korea and China, as a result of Japan not wanting to buy American goods from the US, to reduce the balance. As a result, Japan is no longer the fast growing economy it used to be.

That's probably going to happen again ...

However, you did forget something significant, which leads the result being that it will only take China about 14 years to catch up. Not the 44 years you suggested.

The formula is:

6000*1.1^n > 14000*1.03^n
1.1^n > 2.333*1.03^n
(1.1/1.03)^n > 2.333
1.067^n > 2.333

It takes 14 years.

reply to post by ollncasino


wow u guys are such losers. All this hype here about freedom , mankind blah blah.... crap. u guys have every problem when even slightest of ur "rights" such as bombing other countries and then making fun of their religion are taken away and u just cant stand any other country in world dares to deviates from ur diktat.

grow up To the rest of the world US is the version of Illuminati u blabber about and u r part of it. u have gone on to so many wars since ur formation and still u want more blood spilled. y because ur stupid dollar will fall??

I am an from India, a country which has gone to war 4 times with ultra Muslim country Pakistan but now i clearly see who is the real enemy.

Ur governments do all this just so that they can satisfy all oil hungry mouths that is America. bloody bastards.

U guys act like all pro democracy and yet when it comes to UN u want oligarchy. The one with the most money and most muscle should have a priority vote "right"??? u pathetic people have stopped funding UNESCO over what.. Israel which was literally planted on earth by force??? I am not saying they dont have rights but u cant just move people and plant a country and according to u guys they are busy making their NWO?? according to that logic all native americans must be given their land back..

Shameless creatures u all are. Hypocrites delusional and evil that is what America is.

Let me give u a example : Obama that ass#### is blocking cancer drugs to India citing ur own made and biased patent laws which will drop these essential drug prices from Rs 7000 to Rs 154...... pathetic.

And it is not just Obama I really have no hopes from other party who disregards their own 47 % as moochers.

U guys beg ... Oh i m so sorry, "borrow" money from China which is helping ur economy to float and then back stab them with ur rants and actions every where possible. forget all that u guys dont even respect ur own west allies who stand besides u all the times and constantly belittle them

I think south park has described u guys better than Shakespeare could ever have :

51% Americans are pro war fanatics real life leeches and 49% are pussies who talk with compassion etc etc and make u look like u regret ur actions and help all along to let this charade go on.

I hate jihadis and those Tienanmen square murderers communists but really u r one up in evil.

I come here to see u guys whining about literally everything and it really makes me happy. wish all ur fears come true

and yes u r wrong, no one is jealous of u nor do i want to come to such ignorant place just be happy and let others be

Next time u talk of banking cabal, Illuminati etc just remember U R THE PLAGUE OF HUMAN KIND

Originally posted by syrinx high priest
I think I'm in an ATS time warp, didn't this happen last month too ?

Its a Time Machine. Posts and Threads go back and forth into the future and past 2012, Nibiru, WWIII etc etc

Originally posted by hawkiye

According to Lindsey Williams ..............

There is your problem. Nothing the guy has proclaimed has happened. He is a scam artist.