Chemtrail Poll

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posted on Oct, 2 2012 @ 12:08 PM
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A 6-5-5 from me.

Although there may be some validity in option 5 for the first question insofar as a contrails do affect the amount of sunlight reaching the Earth's surface as well as the amount of radiation escaping the Earth's surface. With the current scientific consensus being that they cause a very small net warming on a global scale.




posted on Oct, 3 2012 @ 09:31 AM
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I think this is a perfect example of why this issue is such a problem to discuss. There is no clear consensus of what the problem is, so any and all discussion about it will be cloudy at best.

I cannot say chemtrails are fantasy and find out that the person I am saying that to believes that chemtrails are cloud seeding. Cloud seeding is very real.

I just don't understand how proponents of the chemtrail discussion don't try to correct other believers when they stretch the meaning so far out of their own views. I know we all love a good discussion, but it's hugely frustrating when nobody is quite sure WHAT is being discussed.

Thanks for the thread. You have gotten much better answers than I have in the past with the same type of question.



posted on Oct, 3 2012 @ 04:40 PM
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reply to post by waynos
 


It's a shame there hasn't been a few more responses to this thread, as I certainly would like a clarification on what exactly a "chemtrail" is. It seems it is always persistent contrails labelled as chemtrails, yet when persistent contrails cannot be ruled out as an explanation, the conversations often ends up with someone claiming, well there is chaff and cloudseeding, so chemtrails are real; so there! Sometimes even the old "well there are chemicals in the exhaust, so they are chemtrails" argument comes out. This is quite frustrating, as it is not at all what the general chemtrail conspiracy stipulates, and only serves to cloud the issue (no pun intended).

For me, chemtrails are usually whatever it is that is claimed in the particular thread I am responding to. Based on the evidence (or lack thereof) presented, I would have to go with 6 for section 1.

For section 2, I wouldn't say it is not happening outright, but I would say that it is highly unlikely that the type of chemtrail operation described by most chemtrail sites, exists. This is not the same as "they don't exist", but pretty close unless further evidence comes to light.

For section 3, I'd probably have to go with 5, especially the "but that doesn't mean we have to be complacent and pollution is still a problem" part. Some people seem to think that understanding contrail science means you fully advocate polluting and spraying contrails across the entire sky and that we should just accept it. I don't think this at all, but I'll leave the reasoning for another thread.


Originally posted by waynos
Please, no jumping on anyone why their belief is wrong, the purpose of this thread is to try to gauge if there is an even spread of opinion across the board or see if anything is particularly strongly felt or marginalised. The discussions can be in another thread. Thank you

I find this rather difficult, as it is hard to simply ignore obvious inaccuracies or untruths. But I shall refrain, since you asked politely


I will however, leave this link to a thread discussing Chaff and Chemtrails for anyone wanting to discuss it further. Cheers.
edit on 3/10/12 by Curious and Concerned because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 3 2012 @ 08:08 PM
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Today Oct 3rd Southern California hit by major chemtrails all day long. They had been gone for like 2 months and now they are here again and what was really weird today was that they had sundogs on all asides except the western side. One was really brite and then dark on the inside towards the sun. Never seen so many. Just posting this for the record. ourhomesaved@yahoo.com hope no HARRP stuff happening.



posted on Oct, 4 2012 @ 10:44 AM
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reply to post by narveson
 


Alright. It looks like you have a cool front moving in. That would explain the sudden persistent contrails.



posted on Oct, 4 2012 @ 10:05 PM
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reply to post by waynos
 


6
5
5



posted on Oct, 7 2012 @ 08:01 PM
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Originally posted by waynos
reply to post by GoKill
 


I am dismayed that you seem to believe there is some ulterior motive. My only motive for making this thread is the one spelt out previously.

Your none too subtle hints at me being some sort of shill are also about as far off beam as it is possible to get.

You surely noticed that I have specifically asked for everyone's views to be respected here in the poll and no arguing AND that whatever I write in other threads, no reference is made to what ANYONE writes in here.

I believe in honouring my promise, whatever you choose to think.

Edit: could you spell out what my ulterior motive is supposed to be, because several minutes after posting I still haven't figured out what you mean?
edit on 2-10-2012 by waynos because: (no reason given)


So I guess this was you not attacking someone. I don't know but it sure looks like a body blow to me.

Originally posted by waynos
He left that known-to-be-faked 'pilots protest' photo up on screen for an awfully long time, whatever could the motive for that be?


Yeah then you try to give the appearance that you want to get back to your best of intentions thread. BS...
You just had to get that shot in though.. Well as you can see from my post 2 can play at that game... Not what I think but more like what is obvious. No you did NOT keep your promise.. Speaking of promise, what are we like 6 years old?

After rereading the the OP it became painfully clear to me that some of the items you gave us to choose from were merely a lowbrow from of ridicule.

AS IN:
A cadre of secret service pilots has infiltrated the worlds airlines... etc.


Your none too subtle hints at me being some sort of shill are also about as far off beam as it is possible to get.


Not sure what you don't get about my suggestion that some of you on the GE board have an agenda. You tell me what it means when an ats user has thousands of post, some dating back before the GE forum was even formed. That do nothing but dispute EVERY single piece of evidence presented. No matter how compelling it is, it is just shot down right away and ALWAYS by the same few users.

You see I am a very statistical kind of person because statistics don't lie. You might call me a profiler or an exprofiler.. It would be natural (statistically speaking) if different people came along and said this is BS or that is BS but the simple fact that it is ALWAYS the same users is very telling statistically speaking.

Then compound that with the fact that what yall do is also unnatural (statistically speaking). As in to attack with impunity every thread on the subject of GE. You see 99.9 % of people who disagree with something will state there point and if it's not accepted after so long they will give up, move along.. So again it is VERY unnatural to keep disputing something when it has been proven time and time again that. a) GE does exist. b) your not going to change anyone with half a brains opinion.

It's like if I disagreed with Obamas birth cert. I would state my opinion and if it was not accepted after so long I would stop wasting my time. Because it would be futile and infantile to continue. Especially if ats made a board called 'Obamas birth cert is real' kinda a crappy example but you get my drift? Yet we have guys like gaul on here that have been at it for YEARS... Either yall are just the .01% or something is up. Wanna guess what the statistics suggest.

I think that the President is appointed but you will not find 1 post where I'm up in the political forums trying to convince anyone else what I believe to be true. It's pointless... Maybe I should refer to yall as the pointless crew..

The saddest part of all is your kids and gauls kids etc. will have to live with the things you helped go on or die as a consequence of it... when surely someone doing disinfo has the info needed to blow it wide open......

We didn't come up with the term GE.
We didn't tell ats to make a GE forum.
So how did they pick that title, just a lucky guess...
No it's all over the place at this stage in the game... (msm, net, video of there meetings, video of UN meetings. Patents, on and on... You think they would let a nut job conspiracy theorist speak at a UN meeting? no)

I bet some where in the ats archives one could find a thread where a bunch of shill's jumped all over some guy for suggesting that RFID's would be planted in humans. However sure enough there are some fools in Fl. walking around with that crap in their arm..

Go defend something you BELIEVE IN and stop wasting your time being so negative about something you don't believe in.As I state in most of my threads this board is for those that DO.. Not saying you dont have the right to disagree but really dog like it's your job. really?


That clear enough for you?



posted on Oct, 7 2012 @ 08:21 PM
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Originally posted by synapsis
Chemtrails are real . They are spraying harmful chemicals in the air as part of geoenginerring



Who has been harmed?



posted on Oct, 7 2012 @ 08:21 PM
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I pick
None of the above,
and I will call them as I want. when I look up.
And I care not what any-other human thinks of my
description of the world I live in,
and how I see it.

Label me as you see fit,
I understand some people,
do not know how to deal
with people that share the same planet as them,
and need to label them in order to deal with them,
in their mind.



posted on Oct, 7 2012 @ 08:46 PM
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Originally posted by GoKill

.....
After rereading the the OP it became painfully clear to me that some of the items you gave us to choose from were merely a lowbrow from of ridicule.

AS IN:
A cadre of secret service pilots has infiltrated the worlds airlines... etc.


the whole chemtrail myth is uptight paranoid libel of professionals such as pilots and mechanics - low brow ridicule is what it deserves.


Not sure what you don't get about my suggestion that some of you on the GE board have an agenda. You tell me what it means when an ats user has thousands of post, some dating back before the GE forum was even formed. That do nothing but dispute EVERY single piece of evidence presented. No matter how compelling it is, it is just shot down right away and ALWAYS by the same few users.


Rubbish - compelling ievidence is examined and accepted for what it is.

It is not the fault of debunkers that there is NO compelling evidence for the various aspects of the chemtrail myth.


You see I am a very statistical kind of person because statistics don't lie.


"Lies, damned lies and statistics"


You might call me a profiler or an exprofiler.. It would be natural (statistically speaking) if different people came along and said this is BS or that is BS but the simple fact that it is ALWAYS the same users is very telling statistically speaking.


So why don't you present the actual analysis that you have done, and how it leads you to whatever conclusion you make.

You are not the only one on here with an interest in stats - I deal with aviation statistics - it is my job - go for it.


Then compound that with the fact that what yall do is also unnatural (statistically speaking). As in to attack with impunity every thread on the subject of GE. You see 99.9 % of people who disagree with something will state there point and if it's not accepted after so long they will give up, move along.. So again it is VERY unnatural to keep disputing something when it has been proven time and time again that. a) GE does exist. b) your not going to change anyone with half a brains opinion.


I have never seen a debunker argue that geo-engineering does not exist.

But I still live in hope that those people with half a brain will find their othe half and realise that chemtrails are a hoax and they have been duped.


It's like if I disagreed with Obamas birth cert. I would state my opinion and if it was not accepted after so long I would stop wasting my time. Because it would be futile and infantile to continue. Especially if ats made a board called 'Obamas birth cert is real' kinda a crappy example but you get my drift? Yet we have guys like gaul on here that have been at it for YEARS... Either yall are just the .01% or something is up. Wanna guess what the statistics suggest.


As of today I have been here exactly 2 years and 3 days. A prominent chemtrail pusher has been here exactly 7 months longer than me. Get over it.

This forum is not titled "Geoengineering chemtrails are real and you are not allowed to argue about it" - you do not get to present unsupported accusations without them being examined - if you do not want critical thinking applied to your myth then go to one of the many chemtrail and GE-conspiracy forums that are censored so that there are no dissenting voices - you will find plenty of like minded people there who are unable to cope with rational criticism.

BTW did you realse that people are suggesting in various forums that airliners should be shot down because of chemtrails?? Is that alone not reason enough to denounce the fantasy??

Or will you be happy when 200 people are killed by some poor nutter who has been sucked so far into this rabbit hole that s/he thinks it is actually a good thing to do?????

I look forward to how you use the statistics of who posts here to prove that chemtails exist.....


edit on 7-10-2012 by Aloysius the Gaul because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 8 2012 @ 07:05 PM
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reply to post by GoKill
 



So I guess this was you not attacking someone. I don't know but it sure looks like a body blow to me.


That was my opinion on the video, how was that an attack on anyone in the thread? Did you not know that the image was faked? if so that's your problem.

My intention is to try to gather a cross section of the views of members of this board, without anyone being scared to air their view for fear of being attacked or ridiculed, so why are YOU trying to derail the thread with hostility? What is it about having this poll that scares you? Your aggressive manner in trying to derail the thread is both sinister and cowardly at the same time.


After rereading the the OP it became painfully clear to me that some of the items you gave us to choose from were merely a lowbrow from of ridicule.

AS IN:
A cadre of secret service pilots has infiltrated the worlds airlines... etc.


Far from it, that particular option was something stated directly in conversation to me by a believer in another thread on this very board, that's why it was there. I simply tried to offer the alternatives that I recalled from past exchanges. My memory is not infallible which is why I invited respondents to add their own, the ones I listed were no more than a starter set.


Not sure what you don't get about my suggestion that some of you on the GE board have an agenda.


I'm not talking about any 'suggestion' you made about some other people. I am speaking about a direct accusation you levelled at me. So, having accused me, lets go, back it up. But of course you cant as it was nothing more than a knee jerk reaction without any thought, wasn't it? We both know it.


You tell me what it means when an ats user has thousands of post, some dating back before the GE forum was even formed.


Well, it obviously means I have taken part in discussions here for a long time, do you really need this spelling out????


That do nothing but dispute EVERY single piece of evidence presented. No matter how compelling it is, it is just shot down right away


Right, I REALLY didn't want to do this in a poll thread, but since you ask, I shoot down the evidence that is bogus, fabricated, lies. If that happens to be all of it that is not my fault. There is NO compelling evidence of chemtrailing. NONE AT ALL. The only genuine evidence ever posted on here was related to GE proposals. Never chemtrails. Just because you choose ignorance as a default position, it doesn't mean we all have to. Just because some of us are concerned about GE it doesn't mean we have to swallow all the guff about chemtrails as well.


So again it is VERY unnatural to keep disputing something when it has been proven time and time again that. a) GE does exist. b) your not going to change anyone with half a brains opinion.


Yes, I agree, GE is a real 'thing' and no, I am not trying to change your opinion.


The saddest part of all is your kids and gauls kids etc. will have to live with the things you helped go on or die as a consequence of it... when surely someone doing disinfo has the info needed to blow it wide open......


Well, please enlighten me how you are preventing 'it' from going on, as all I see is a bit of online whinging. The real sad part is the chemmies kids end up living with a fear of something that never existed and missing the real threats, that's tragedy for you.

And again you ramble on to the end of the post about GE, demonstrating that you don't even understand what you are arguing against.
edit on 8-10-2012 by waynos because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 17 2012 @ 07:50 AM
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So the poll has been up nearly two weeks now and the consensus of the board currently appears to be as follows;


Section 1

What do we see?

]1 Chemtrails are long, thick persisting trails in the sky sprayed from the engines of jet aircraft 0 votes

2 Chemtrails are long, thick persisting trails in the sky sprayed from secret tanks on board jet aircraft 0 votes

3 Chemtrails means any aerial release activity, visible or not, including cloud seeding, chaff etc but not contrails. 2 votes

4 Chemtrails is aerial geo engineering activity that can be seen in trails 1 votes

5 Chemtrails aren't anything specific, but ANY visible trail in the sky that reduces sunlight, even if accidental 0 votes

6 Chemtrails are really just contrails with scare stories attached to them and geoengineering is a separate topic 10 votes

Section 2

How can this happen?

1 A cadre of secret service pilots has infiltrated the worlds airlines 0 votes

2 Civil pilots are in on it anyway 0 votes

3 Pilots dont know they are carrying it as it is controlled remotely 0 votes

4 It is only carried out by military pilots under orders 1 votes

5 It doesnt happen 10 votes

6 When and if necessary, pilots are made an offer that they can't refuse/ paid to keep quiet etc. 2 votes

Section 3

But how?

1 it is secretly loaded at civil airports 0 votes

2 It is loaded at military facilities 1 votes

3 It is mixed with fuel 0 votes

4 It is a byproduct of normal flying but the result is the same as if it was deliberate 0 votes

5 It was all a con, but that doesn't mean we have to be complacent and pollution is still a problem. 10 votes

6 choices 1,2 and 3 plus many more 1 votes

7 We just dont know 1 votes

Members who found the concept of voting a little difficult, but responded in favour of chemtrails being real 3

additional responses suggested by members are included in the poll.

please feel free to take part if you feel your view is not being represented.


edit on 17-10-2012 by waynos because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 17 2012 @ 07:59 AM
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I've read, listened, watched and debated. I'm no expert but it's definitely 6, 5, 5 for me.





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