The only way to change America is to vote third party.

The only way anyone is going to change the corrupt government of ours is to vote third party. Arguing dem vs rep is like arguing about what hand you wanna get slapped with. its so sad so many of you intelligent folks are so blind to the illusion you live in. So many are depressed about the way this country is they think their is no point in voting. If you are one of those get off your butt and vote third party, vote none of the above. Make a difference. That is patriotism. Do something other then hope someone else does it for you. Get someone else to do the same. Make the statement "I expect more out of America." Our only hope is us Americans standing up for ourselves and utilize the system put in place to make a change. Lets fire a shot across their nose. Its our America, not the coorperations or the politians. Yours and mine. Stand up for yourselves and say you are not going to take it. Go pull that lever. 15 Minutes of your day to try to make a difference. To try to change the direction of the greatest country on earth for the better. Do this each and every chance you get. That my friends is the real revolution. The voter Revolution.

The only way to change America is to kick out all the rulers and start all over again from scratch.

Sorry, but that's the only way.

You are correct. And guess how we realistically accomplish that. By voting!

reply to post by Vaedur


Voting accomplishes nothing because the wealthy elite spend so much money to influence our politicians and control them.

Kick those people out and maybe we can have a shot.

Originally posted by EvilSadamClone
reply to post by Vaedur

 

Voting accomplishes nothing because the wealthy elite spend so much money to influence our politicians and control them.

Kick those people out and maybe we can have a shot.

100% true. we do not vote when you are only presented a heads or tail choice from the same coin.

there should be a dozen candidates from all parties. the current system is #e.

Originally posted by Vaedur
You are correct. And guess how we realistically accomplish that. By voting!

edit on 29-9-2012 by Vaedur because: (no reason given)

Let's look at this statement carefully....

Let's assume the majority of America agrees with you and 75% of the population votes in a Third Party Candidate. Guess what?

The Senate is still made up of Republicans and Democrats. The Congress is still made up of Republicans and Democrats.

Do you really think Congress or the Senate will simply change their ways?

Corporations still employ Lobbyist. Lobbyist will still do their job and pump money into the system to get the results they want.

Your 3rd Party Candidate will suddenly find himself as President and effectively handcuffed from creating any such change. The ONLY thing he will be able to do is control our troops and bring them home, that's it. Anything else will require the help of Congress.. so again, do you really think Congress will suddenly change their ways?

Of course let us not forget that the Supreme Court was appointed by the same corrupt Democrats and Republicans. Do you really think these people will suddenly forget how they got there? I don't.

Sorry but the only way to fix this mess is to literally dissolve our current form of Government and start over from scratch. Fighting from within the corrupt system is the same message that has been presented since the 60's and it has not worked yet.

reply to post by zroth


You will never get rid of them by wishing them out. You can hope a magical unicorn breaks the power structure, or you can do something and cast a vote for someone else. Are you all so blind as to not see the powers want you to be so defeated as to hold back your vote instead of casting a vote against them? You can do Nothing, or you can take that first step in changing things. And now you know, and knowing is half the battle.

reply to post by Vaedur


You really want change?

You really want to fix the system?

Read the Declaration of Independence, it tells you how.

Originally posted by MrWendal

Originally posted by Vaedur
You are correct. And guess how we realistically accomplish that. By voting!

edit on 29-9-2012 by Vaedur because: (no reason given)

Let's look at this statement carefully....

Let's assume the majority of America agrees with you and 75% of the population votes in a Third Party Candidate. Guess what?

The Senate is still made up of Republicans and Democrats. The Congress is still made up of Republicans and Democrats.

Do you really think Congress or the Senate will simply change their ways?

Corporations still employ Lobbyist. Lobbyist will still do their job and pump money into the system to get the results they want.

Your 3rd Party Candidate will suddenly find himself as President and effectively handcuffed from creating any such change. The ONLY thing he will be able to do is control our troops and bring them home, that's it. Anything else will require the help of Congress.. so again, do you really think Congress will suddenly change their ways?

Of course let us not forget that the Supreme Court was appointed by the same corrupt Democrats and Republicans. Do you really think these people will suddenly forget how they got there? I don't.

Sorry but the only way to fix this mess is to literally dissolve our current form of Government and start over from scratch. Fighting from within the corrupt system is the same message that has been presented since the 60's and it has not worked yet.

edit on 29-9-2012 by MrWendal because: (no reason given)

why stop after one election. How r u goiing to disolve government. Your hoping for that which is not going to happen. What can you, as an individual realistically do. You can vote, and keep voting No to demmocrats and Republicans. Or you can do nothing. By not voting against them, you are saying indirectly what they are dong is ok, or at the very least saying nothing at all.

Originally posted by MrWendal
reply to post by Vaedur

 

You really want change?

You really want to fix the system?

Read the Declaration of Independence, it tells you how.

Go ahead and see what happens, thats just fancyful dreaming and unrealistic. Its an excuse to not take action.

Originally posted by Vaedur
reply to post by zroth

 

You will never get rid of them by wishing them out. You can hope a magical unicorn breaks the power structure, or you can do something and cast a vote for someone else. Are you all so blind as to not see the powers want you to be so defeated as to hold back your vote instead of casting a vote against them? You can do Nothing, or you can take that first step in changing things. And now you know, and knowing is half the battle.

Get off your soap box and read what I wrote. I don't get a vote. Red and Blue buy the ballot.

The only true exercise of freedom, via voting, would be if the popular vote was written in by 50+% of the nation and the electoral college respected the voice of the people.

You are calling people blind, ironically while you swing at a piñata with eyes covered by a blindfold. There is no candy in your piñata.

Yes, Im sure 3rd party candidates are immune to greed and coercion. If you vote 3rd party, then that party will just become a target for the same corruption.

Originally posted by OMsk3ptic
Yes, Im sure 3rd party candidates are immune to greed and coercion.

If you vote 3rd party, then that party will just become a target for the same corruption.

I can not deny your logic there. But isnt it time we give someone else a chance. Wouldnt it make that statement we are fed up with the way things are? Im done pretending anything can be done without utalizing what realistic optins we have, and I cannot think of a better one then to end this Rep and Dem control BS. The more third parties in office the more we open it up to others.

Originally posted by zroth

Originally posted by Vaedur
reply to post by zroth

 

You will never get rid of them by wishing them out. You can hope a magical unicorn breaks the power structure, or you can do something and cast a vote for someone else. Are you all so blind as to not see the powers want you to be so defeated as to hold back your vote instead of casting a vote against them? You can do Nothing, or you can take that first step in changing things. And now you know, and knowing is half the battle.

Get off your soap box and read what I wrote. I don't get a vote. Red and Blue buy the ballot.

The only true exercise of freedom, via voting, would be if the popular vote was written in by 50+% of the nation and the electoral college respected the voice of the people.

You are calling people blind, ironically while you swing at a piñata with eyes covered by a blindfold. There is no candy in your piñata.

Umm what? Every birthday party ive been to you swing at the pinata blindfolded and candy pours out, thats knda the point. The only true exercise of freedom, via voting, would be to actually do it.

reply to post by Vaedur


ah, I get it.

You're in the pulpit.

This is not a discussion.

Best of luck. Rock the vote!

Originally posted by zroth
reply to post by Vaedur

 

ah, I get it.

You're in the pulpit.

This is not a discussion.

Best of luck. Rock the vote!

Im sorry to be preachy, and id love to hear a better option to get rid of the jerks in office. But your point is taken.

Yes... yes... the way to defeat the corrupt system is to use the corrupt system as if it wasn't corrupt. BRILLIANT!!

Ummm... first off the 2 candidates we do see are, as many know, just two sides of the same coin designed to get us arguing mostly over the social issues while war and profiteering continue. The 3rd candidate you don't really see will never see the light of day long enough to get anywhere near the electorial votes needed to win. I would wager that the vast majority, if shown a list of the 3 candidates for POTUS will think to him/herself, "Gary who?? Oh well, I'll vote !"

As far as Congress. You think you are going to get a newbie, green new elect congressman to change things? Pfft.. Welcome to internal hierarchy where a junior won't even see the light of day on anything unless he gets his instructions from the seniors.

There is no real hope outside of a total change of government. Votes just is a feel good exercise anymore since things are pretty much determined with contingency before voting even starts.

Originally posted by Terminal1
Yes... yes... the way to defeat the corrupt system is to use the corrupt system as if it wasn't corrupt. BRILLIANT!!

Ummm... first off the 2 candidates we do see are, as many know, just two sides of the same coin designed to get us arguing mostly over the social issues while war and profiteering continue. The 3rd candidate you don't really see will never see the light of day long enough to get anywhere near the electorial votes needed to win. I would wager that the vast majority, if shown a list of the 3 candidates for POTUS will think to him/herself, "Gary who?? Oh well, I'll vote !"

As far as Congress. You think you are going to get a newbie, green new elect congressman to change things? Pfft.. Welcome to internal hierarchy where a junior won't even see the light of day on anything unless he gets his instructions from the seniors.
There is no real hope outside of a total change of government. Votes just is a feel good exercise anymore since things are pretty much determined with contingency before voting even starts.

i agree with all of that except a total change of gov isnt going to happen. What if we could use the corrupt system against them? Noone is wrong saying we need a change. I just dont personally see any other realistic option then trying to beat them at their own game.

I honestly believe with all my heart that the time to change things via the ballot box is long gone. I don't trust the Diebold voting machines, as the machines are only as honest at the people programming them.

Other countries have outlawed these machines and ONLY allow paper ballots, which are counted in full view of the public, in order to stop corruption. Not so in the US. Do you really trust that your vote will actually count?

Take into consideration the POTUS race between Dubya and Gore. Gore actually won the popular vote by approximately half a million votes, yet Dubya got the electoral college votes.

The entire thing is rigged, dishonest, and is nothing more than a sham to appease the serfs to make them think they have a choice in how their future is going to go.

Until we rid our election process of those stupid computers, have an open counting of paper ballots which are observed by all, and get rid of that idiotic electoral college, going to the ballot box will do NOTHING.

As far as congress is concerned, every single one of them is a worthless, self-serving leech who should be thrown into the street and drummed out of the country for being traitors. I'm so tired of the "we can't have an independent party candidate as POTUS because congress will screw him up". Well, if congress is so corrupt and beholden to party lobbyists, we can do better without them. Get rid of ALL parties, stop the insanity, and perhaps we can have real change.

Until then.......America's political system is the poster child for absolute corruption, and deserves nothing but our comtempt.

By not voting you are doing exactly what they want you to do. You think voting does nothing well I am from Florida from one of the counties that decided the election for Bush. I voted third party as did many of my friends. Those that voted third party swung the vote in Bushes favor.

Not voting does nothing you are not rocking the boat you are not being heard you are in the same category as those that cannot vote illegal aliens and convicts. A vote not cast counts as nothing the idea that if enough people don’t vote it will change things is ludicrous because at the very least the people in the campaigns themselves will vote for themselves. If you don’t like the system do something to change it but if you are going to sit on your butt and do nothing then I hate to be cliché but you really shouldn’t complain.

BTW I regret voting third party that year because I was in the military at the time and we all know how that turned out but because of that election you better believe many politicians took notice with those who did vote third party and were banging their heads against the wall because of it. I know you think there is no difference in the two parties but I could fill a page here proving you wrong. But go ahead do as you wish there were many many people that fought and died so you could make that decision they will be rolling in their grave as you sit on your couch on Election Day complaining about how the government sucks.

Peace out