I was asked why I loathe Romney besides. Here's why not...counting any policy or Bain.

Last night in a phone call with my brother's girlfriend in Kansas, this subject came up. She is a thoughtful person, but one under the spell of FOX News. Kansas is very right wing and people there are also subject to the herd mentality, sort of like people in OK or much of TX. So she asked me why I seemed to loathe Romney.

To answer this question I decided to leave all my policy reasons aside, all his tax evasiveness, all his pandering and flip flopping, even his Bain experience. I thought it simplest to just deal with the man and his character. Here are my reasons why I think him a basically just a thoughtless jerk without honor.

1. Anecdotes from him or his own children:
a. He has 18 grandkids, which is wonderful, but Tag told FOX that in family gatherings, Mitt thinks the kids take too long in the food line, so he cuts in front of everyone and then is usually finished with his dinner before most even start eating. Who does that except for a rude, selfish jerk?

b. Another son reported than on another family gathering they were having races. In one foot race, it was down to Mitt and a daughter-in-law. Mitt tripped his daughter-in-law so he could come in first. Funny, haha, but again, what kind of person even thinks like this?

c. He told the Seamus dog story in his own book, like it was a funny story. I am not a huge dog person, but we have a dog. I'd never do that and don't know anyone who would, much less anyone who'd think it funny.

2. The draft and his dodging:
Many people dodged the draft. Clinton did, but at least Clinton was on record against the war then. Others made hard moral decisions and left the country. I'm a veteran. I would not have left and would have went, but at least those people were morally consistent. Mitt Romney protested FOR the war in college. In fact, he actually protested FOR the draft (there are photos). But what does HE then do? He uses a special Mormon exclusion and runs off to France for "mission work." Apparently he was for the draft for lesser people. And even when in France, he did not live in humble circumstances like his fellow Mormons. No, he lived in a chateau for two years.

Further, the man has 5 strapping boys. None have served. His father did not serve. One does not need a divining rod to ascertain that this family feels no obligation to serve its nation. That, is apparently, something only the middle class and poor should do. Contrast that to British aristocracy, no man there of honor would EVER shirk that duty.

3. He does not stand with his wife:
We all know the Romney's have horses and they had a horse competing in the dressage competition. We all know this is a write off for Romney ($77k) that we pay and that he calls this Ann's hobby. Aside from the elitist jokes we might make; hey, they are rich people so whatever. BUT, when it was time for her horse to compete, this horse who supposedly played such an important role in Ann's life as a distraction from muscular dystrophy, Romney bails and does not go to the event for fear the electorate will think him a snobby elitist. What I do expect is for him to be man enough to support his wife and have the balls to tell his critics to shove it and say, "This is important to Ann, so it is important to me." No one would have begrudged him that and, in fact, would have thought that an honorable thing for him to do. My mother always said, "Support your wife first and always, even before me."

4. He cares more for appearances than people:
This is a well-reported story of Romney during his time as a Mormon bishop, a role all senior Mormon men in good standing with the church seem to have at some point (I don't know the particulars). There was a young woman who had just given birth. She was not married. Mitt, as her bishop, visited her bedside in the hospital, demanding she give the baby up for adoption because that was apparently what the church wanted as it did not believe unwed women should be mothers. She did not want to. He threatened ex-communication from the church if she did not comply with its wishes. So here's a man more concerned with the image of his church than with the bond of a woman and her child. I'm sorry. That's another no go for me.Mitt as Bishop

5. His default instinct is to just be an asshat (to borrow a term from a moderator):
a. He makes the now famous visit to sit with older ladies from a community. They brought cookies from the town's legendary bakery; something they were proud to show off. What does Mitt do? He laughingly asks them if they got "these awful cookies" from 7-Eleven. Who the hell says that? I mean, what prevents him from just shutting his damned mouth instead of reflexively being a jerk?

b. Same deal at a NASCAR event. Fans where in the bleachers during the rain, as loyal fans will do. They were wearing those inexpensive ponchos. Mitt sits down to have a nice little chat with potential voters. What does he do? He laughingly comments about their cheap ponchos. Just another dick move that seems to show Mitt has some inbuilt need to tear others down to lift up himself.

6. General jerkness:
a. Here's a story you may not know, so here's a link: Romney cuts off a teacher. (Some of you will assail the messenger as a liberal source, but that does not make it untrue.) It happened recently in Colorado during a forum of people the Romney team had assembled. The attendees assumed the meeting would be an opportunity to offer their perspectives and insights. At some point during the meeting, Romney mentions that he heard on of the attendees was a teacher. This teacher assumed she was going to be asked her opinion, so she had spent considerable time thinking before the forum. Instead, Romney went off on a tirade about how bad public schools are (he never attended one, neither have any of his kids), blaming unions and saying there needed to be choice and more charter schools. The teacher, with some perspective started to speak, saying she might have what she thought was a solution. What did Romney do? He turned to her and said, "I did not ask you a question." Wow.

b. Leading the gang hair-cutting thing when he was in his prep school. I don't think I need to belabor this point or re-hash it. It is what it as, and to me, it is more than just "youthful hijinks." How many of you were that kind of bully in high school?

7. The now famous 47% video:
I don't care whether he believed what he was saying or not (though he was speaking perfectly fluid and with confidence). I even accept (unlike most left of the Right) that he was speaking within the context of trying to attract people to vote for him and that that group would not. I do not think he meant that he did not care about them in general. But, he still said, “I'll never convince them they should take personal responsibility and care for their lives” and that he said they all believed themselves entitled victims. Either this confirms him as one of the most vile panderers in history or it confirms he has great disdain for 1/2 the country. Either way, it makes his a low life not fit to lead this nation.

So these are just a few incidents, each highly reflecting the sort of man Romney is. I place a very high premium on honor and basic human decency. What all these illustrate is a man without completely honor (and I dare say a coward) and I refuse to give any such person my vote. I'd love to hear how his supporters he reconcile with these provable incidents and what THEY think it reveals in the man himself.

Final note: don't turn this into an anti-Obama thread. This is all about Mitt, not about Obama or any other person. Speak to the issue or don't speak at all.

I despise Romney also.


But.........


Makes it seems like this is going to be a one-sided bash fest.......

While i have never been on a personal level with any President, I don't think likeability should be the main driver of the ability to hold the office. I don't like any of them. Romney does however have the business savvy to create jobs which is really a huge issue. Without jobs the next President will likely be in a bunker 600 feet under ground anyway.

My reason why I loathe Romney:

I don't. Nor do I care much for that type of person. He seems like your standard corporate stiff, able to wear the mask like the rest, but about as fun to talk to as a napkin outside of work.
He has no personality, and he seems to have a predisposition of saying the wrong thing, not reading the crowd, not even contemplating his own stances. Simple power grabbing person, not because he thinks his vision is awesome, but because its almost like a checklist for him...

He has no stances that he won't turn over in a instant. Might as well just put in a literal puppet.

So, in my opinion, he see's the POTUS position not as something to attain to bring forth some core vision, but rather just another position to attain and slap on the resume. There is a disconnect of..hmm..reverence that is needed if your going to be commander and chief of the most powerful military on earth.

So, I am neutral on him as a person. As a president...his corporate calculus would get us in all sorts of trouble...removing the people problem is fine in corporate america, but in reality, it would be a disaster.

McCain..well, McCain 2000 was a good guy with convictions, stances, and a vision. He lost the crowd when he started going puppet for the right wing talk box...and his landslide failure was because of this...Romney has trumped McCain 2008. Romney had a chance if he stayed strong from his 2007ish stances, but he converted to court the fringe right wing only...and so thats what he will have as his voting block..meanwhile, he lost the independents, the entire left, and many of the moderate right.

Better to lose on principle than win without message.

Originally posted by jimmiec
While i have never been on a personal level with any President, I don't think likeability should be the main driver of the ability to hold the office.

Likability reflects many things actually. Consider the world stage, The POTUS represents the citizens of the US, this in turn effects trade, war, etc.
You don't have to sacrifice personality for intellect. Outside of Veto power and executive order, a president is little more than marketing for the country. You want a decent salesman for our interests.

Hense why Ronald Reagan was considered one of the greats...not because his policys (they sucked!), but because of how he sold america to the world.

That is a good list of stories surrounding Mitt, and it fits his character from what I have seen.

When it comes to politics, Obama or Romney as presidents are the same.

Politics aside, just based on Mitt's personality from the videos I have seen of him, he is deceitful, two faced and full of himself, as if he holds a great deal of importance about himself, when I would not trust him with my dog even. Someone mentioned he has the profile of a serial killer, and I can see it in him.

Well, as the forum says:

This forum is restricted to discussion of the issues, personalities, controversies, conspiracies, and all other items related to the campaigns for national office in the 2012 US elections.

So to say, I cant talk about Obama, in relation to Romney, especially in this Political elections, is a farce, and goes against everything ATS is about. I could easily make a list about Obama, and a thread, but WHY? What hasn't been said about both of these men, already? Never mind........

Im ranting about two men, that care nothing about me, or the OP, or America, or the World. Both are bad. Both I loathe, but only ONE is the current President, and should be held to the highest standard, for holding the highest Position, in the Land.


/rantoff

Originally posted by jimmiec
While i have never been on a personal level with any President, I don't think likeability should be the main driver of the ability to hold the office. I don't like any of them. Romney does however have the business savvy to create jobs which is really a huge issue. Without jobs the next President will likely be in a bunker 600 feet under ground anyway.

I have to agree there. There is a whole sub-genre of books around the White House, First Families and the life which surrounds them all as I discovered searching book racks in truck stops for years.

H.W. and Barbara Bush's behind-the-scenes stories make them both sound very personable and among the better to have in the White House by thinking of the staff and personal contacts. Personally, I think Daddy Bush started the international 'New World Order' chain of thinking that led us here. Good guy personally...disaster as a President.

Those same books make Clinton (Both of them) sound among the worst, most petty and generally cold couple from the eyes of the staff and Secret Service people who knew them best at that level. Where Nancy Reagan was reported to have walked cookies out to Secret Service agents standing perimeter on a cold cold night....The Clinton's were known to hold them and the Marines in disdain by both act and deed. So go the books from those who lived it, describing it. Clinton was ALSO one of the better President's we've had by sheer numbers, data and outcome when looked at objectively and as future generations can with almost not thought to his personal traits as a scumbag of a man.

Romney may be a scumbag every bit the match of Clinton....or he may be fairly clean cut for personal life issues as Obama would 'appear' to be (Who knows...we don't get to know that with Obama). His personal life or the fact he tripped someone to win a foot race at a family function as kid mean absolutely nothing to me.

Can the next President face an unwinnable economic enigma and find any solution at all? In the end, that is the only question which matters, on any level. If THAT one can't be answered...and answered well, nothing else matters for the wasteland which failure there creates, IMO.

Most people who hate Romney have an Obama phone.
They were bought and paid for...cheap.

reply to post by pajoly


Very insightful post. I read every word.

I think the character and trustworthiness of a person are all-important. Seeing the "many faces of Mitt" has shown me that he isn't trustworthy. I don't trust him to do or NOT do what he says. I don't understand how his voters can know what they're voting for.

His awkwardness and "fakeness" come from being so detached and unfamiliar with what actual people go through in their lives. He seems to lack compassion and empathy for the average human being, never having struggled like most of us.

I don't loathe Mitt Romney. I just don't want him sitting in the oval office. I do feel some compassion for him and Ann, especially after reading about Ann's comment on his "mental well-being" and considering how she has always taken care of him. He's probably a little insecure and even afraid right now because if he wins, he has NO CLUE how to run a country. And he knows that. He will be where the buck stops and I don't think he could handle that.

But all your examples together make up a pretty complete picture of the man's character. It's all very telling of who he is as a person.

Because it's obvious he's a corporate sleezbag. I'm not mad at him for being successful, I'm mad at him because it's obvious he isn't a good person. I'm mad because he's the exact type of person who has been destroying this country. Our country was NOT founded on the idea that you should do anything to make a buck.
He's a known liar who will say anything to be elected. He has changed positions on pretty much every single topic you could think of.

Originally posted by Nite_wing
Most people who hate Romney have an Obama phone.
They were bought and paid for...cheap.

cue the Repubo-bots who think anyone who realizes Romney is a scumbag, has to be an Obama supporter....

Originally posted by sonnny1
I despise Romney also.


But.........


Makes it seems like this is going to be a one-sided bash fest.......

You are likely right, but I would like to honestly see what supporters think about my list. Will they reject them out of hand as insignificant, which they are entitled to do or will they think them all lies?

Originally posted by jimmiec
While i have never been on a personal level with any President, I don't think likeability should be the main driver of the ability to hold the office. I don't like any of them. Romney does however have the business savvy to create jobs which is really a huge issue. Without jobs the next President will likely be in a bunker 600 feet under ground anyway.

Though it matters not to you, I can accept your rationale, even if I disagree in terms of his claim to be a job creator. Thanks for responding.

reply to post by SaturnFX


I agree with all your reasons re him being a core-less corporate stiff. I just can't get beyond my sense of him not being honorable. How reacted to the draft is a huge one with me, as well as his blowing off his own wife for appearances.

reply to post by SaturnFX


Your post is an under-appreciated truth in my opinion.

reply to post by pajoly


I hear you. Im just surprised people haven't woken up yet, to the spectacle of crooked Politics, and Right/Left BS. I see him, and Obama as Polar Opposites, looking into a mirror, with Agendas to keep this Country weak. Ive learned from ATS, that around this time, those claiming neutrality, when it comes to left and right, show their true colors, in the end. Sorry if I ranted before, but Romneys personal life, is nothing, compared to the political lives of both of these men, who are running for President. Their characters were bought and paid for, or molded early to play parts, in a bigger picture. Just MHO.

Originally posted by Nite_wing
Most people who hate Romney have an Obama phone.
They were bought and paid for...cheap.

Lol this would be funny if it wasn't so true....


I might write a "why I loathe Obama" thread, but it would take too long and it wouldn't have fun things in it like cutting in line of 18 grand childern....lol

reply to post by pajoly


I didn’t know some of these stories S&F OP. I like many people didn’t start paying attention to him until just before the convention because I am an independent I can’t vote in the primaries I think I will start registering for whichever side loses after this election so I can actually have a say each election before the election because there were a few guys I actually liked. My decision has been based off his policy or lack thereof one I am not in the crowd of the anybody buts crowd because I actualy care who sits in that chair they made a$$e$ of themselves and picked possibly the worst person to run.

As a veteran myself to hear that someone pushed for others to go to war then bailed out themselves hiding behind their religion is infuriating. This man is scum plain and simple scum and I fear for our nation if he is elected.
I knew he dodged to France but it doesn’t surprise me that he was living high on the hog doing it.

The other story of what he did to that young mother. ……. Let me just say there is a special place in hell for people like that.

I think I will send this to my uncle because there are many things I did not know and I am sure many other people have not heard as well. How anyone can defend this guy is beyond me. I can understand how some may believe a heartless SOB is what we need but to defend his character when you know the truth is just …... Well I am sure Mitt will save you a seat next to him in the afterlife.

Thanks OP

BTW You will find very few people from the republican side that will be able to intelligently counter your OP instead they will deflect to another topic or the famous B-B-B-But Obama did….. If they can’t switch the subject they do not have an argument because actually defending this guy’s actions is near to, if not impossible.

They aren’t even trying to polish their turd. I don’t much care for Obama but he is the only sane logical choice in this election. I wish Gary Johnson had a chance because I would vote for him in a heartbeat but IMO we cannot let Romney win.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
reply to post by pajoly

 

I don't loathe Mitt Romney. I just don't want him sitting in the oval office. I do feel some compassion for him and Ann, especially after reading about Ann's comment on his "mental well-being" and considering how she has always taken care of him. He's probably a little insecure and even afraid right now because if he wins, he has NO CLUE how to run a country. And he knows that. He will be where the buck stops and I don't think he could handle that.

But all your examples together make up a pretty complete picture of the man's character. It's all very telling of who he is as a person.

edit on 9/29/2012 by Benevolent Heretic because: (no reason given)

That's fair. Loathe IS a very strong word. The veteran side of me gets pretty testy about chicken hawks beating their chests while they themselves literally ran away from duty when it called. That tips it in "loathe" territory for me!