'Jesus Not Allowed': Anti-Faith Sentiment Sweeps US

While not personally religious, my views on this are simple. Freedom of speech and freedom of religion are not conditional (except in cases where clear harm or danger is being constituted, i.e. "yelling 'fire!' in a crowded theater.")

No matter how much I may disagree with some religious individuals, I do not paint them all with a single brush stroke, and I will forever defend and advocate their right to both hold and espouse their beliefs. Likewise, if I find something being espoused abhorrent, I will forever defend and advocate people's (including my own) right to express the opinion that it is abhorrent.

To me that's fair, tolerant, and essential to our liberty.

I find it ironic that people blame the religious for the atrocities committed by the Church. It's like blaming citizens for the atrocities committed by governments. If you Americans don't want to be blamed for the murder of innocents and children committed by your government, then don't blame the religious for the horrible actions committed by the Church. Both institutions have been corrupted.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000


Humans don't solely engage in sex to produce offspring; to say, "if you don't want children, don't have sex," is to say, "if you don't want to risk cutting yourself don't ever pick up a knife." Do you only have sex to produce children? Do you not masturbate? Most people use protection to prevent pregnancies, but sometimes protection fails and a woman ends up pregnant.

Now, if this were the middle ages I'd probably agree with you that if you don't want children, you shouldn't have sex, because abortion methods back then were very risky and unethical and protection was either nonexistent or unreliable. In the 21st century, however, pregnancies can be detected rather early and a woman can have the option to safely (for the most part) rid herself of the parasite growing in her womb.

Originally posted by DestroyDestroyDestroy

In the 21st century, however, pregnancies can be detected rather early and a woman can have the option to safely (for the most part) rid herself of the parasite growing in her womb.

^ (Bolded emphasis mine) Really? In Huxley's Brave New World the people had been conditioned to see pregnancy as a horrifying and disgusting thing. This type of language is along those lines.

This has to be old news well, not so old, and from the same source,

www.cbn.com...

It seems that is more like some dickhead legal eagles trying to make the federal law/government outside of all things religious and on the face of it, not a bad idea, except that it seems to include any sentiment expressed on federal property, That has to be directly in opposition to freedom of expression anywhere in the US, or UK for that matter, and most likely elsewhere. Who knows, perhaps the federal judge in the OP case was actually trying to highlight the silliness. Other stuff, is much more complicated, like the wearing of the burqa, or other veils (now banned in France) but of which is also a part of a 'religious requirement' in some religions, albeit a male oriented edict. So maybe the French government have it right in some ways if they seek to elevate all women to an equal status with men who reside in France, and that is hard to argue against. Conversely, women who wear veils, may have a belief that this is a fundamental part of their religion, all according to what has been handed down to them by custom.

Christianity has had long enough to prove itself and it has failed. As a matter of fact ALL religions have failed to offset mankinds dark, destructive natures. Maybe religion has slowed down our self destructive processes a little but religion always creates prejudice therefore religion is a devil in its own rite ( pun intended ) I say lets keep morality and scrap the mythos and the self centeredness of religion.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000


That's not true - humans do not have sex merely for procreation. The sex drive exists outside of the three or so days a woman is able to conceive. If sex were only for procreation women would go into heat like animals do and would not have sex when they were unable to conceive. They would also stop having sex once they were past the age of childbearing, and that doesn't happen either.

Amen, religion sets up a framework for morality, atheism offers no such code. All it offers is contempt and disdain for those who practice a faith. Does atheism offer a framework for moral action? No, it does not appear to claim to do so. If all atheism has to offer is invective for religion, then it offers nothing better than we already have. Why should we abandon a moral framework that teaches "gentleness, meekness, brotherly kindness, and love unfeigned" in favor of one that teaches smugness? Science has it's usefulness, that is surely the case, but as far as offering us morality and determining whether there is a God, it is an incomplete way of knowing the world.

Originally posted by jiggerj

Originally posted by littled16

I would defend her, and many others I know would also! Freedom of religious expression in a right given to ALL of us- not just some! Her right to give thanks to god and goddess is just as important as my right to give thanks to Jesus!

Not being sarcastic. If you truly believe in freedom of religious expression, then you would HAVE to defend that girl if she held up this sign:

You're dead wrong because incitement to violence isn't protected.

Originally posted by GoldenRuled
20 yrs ago, things were just the opposite. The beetles lost most of the country in fans because of 1 derogatory remark they made about Jesus. It is just amazing how this country is going with the wisdom of DC guiding us whether we like it or not to a prosperity we already had. Bring on the persecution!

Could you at least get your facts straight? John Lennon -- not the Beatles in aggregate -- said this in 1966, i.e. 46 year ago, not 20. Second, Lennon didn't make a derogatory statement; he said the Beatles were bigger than Jesus, which may well have been true. Third, sure there were some religious zealots who burned Beatles records and paraphernalia, but the Fab Four continued to be quite popular and retain most of their fan base. And fourth: good GAWD, the band is The Beatles, not The beetles. Or are you referring to some species of insect having made this statement about Jesus? And what is "the wisdom of DC"? The comic book company or the District of Columbia?

So given your first paragraph was so full of inaccuracies and/or falsehoods, why should I or anyone else bother to read the rest of your post? Four strikes and you're OUT!

Moreover, this was a public school event and we have separation of church and state in the US. I, as an atheist, would be both uncomfortable and pissed off if some dizzy high schooler started in with god-crap during a graduation ceremony for a public school. Would it be ok with you if a student wanted to sacrifice an animal or some students want to smoke a bowl to Jah or pass out peyote to everybody in order to have graduation visions? Never mind that there may be some non-Christian theists who would also feel uncomfortable with some prayer to the Christian god. What if a Muslim student giving the valedictory wanted to mention Allah? I'd bet you'd really love that.

Originally posted by bigrex
Amen, religion sets up a framework for morality, atheism offers no such code. All it offers is contempt and disdain for those who practice a faith. Does atheism offer a framework for moral action? No, it does not appear to claim to do so. If all atheism has to offer is invective for religion, then it offers nothing better than we already have. Why should we abandon a moral framework that teaches "gentleness, meekness, brotherly kindness, and love unfeigned" in favor of one that teaches smugness? Science has it's usefulness, that is surely the case, but as far as offering us morality and determining whether there is a God, it is an incomplete way of knowing the world.

You are a liar and a bigot, so you clearly have no code of morality to speak of. To claim atheists have no moral code is complete hogwash. I am offended that you would claim that atheists have no moral code. And if you think religions have a monopoly on moral code, then have I ever got a great real estate investment for you in Vatican City. People have developed moral codes in order to get along in groups. Religions have just co-opted or codified pre-existing laws. Even chimps of a sense of morality. Do they have a religion?

If you were right in your wrong-headed supposition, all crime would be committed by atheists and no crimes would be committed by religious folk. How do you explain all the child raping Catholic priests? How do you explain all the Christian US Presidents who evidently never heard of the Commandment, Thou shall not kill? Timothy McVeigh was a Christian and blew up a building that included a pre-school day-care center.

You're kind of ignorant, religious bigotry is one of the big problems we have. Your self-righteous arrogance is nauseating. Again, how dare you say atheists have no moral code, you hateful, ignorant person. A pox upon you and your kind.

reply to post by GoldenRuled

Persecutory delusions are a delusional condition in which the affected person believes they are being persecuted. Specifically, they have been defined as containing two central elements:[1]
1.The individual thinks that harm is occurring, or is going to occur.
2.The individual thinks that the persecutor has the intention to cause harm.

According to the DSM-IV-TR, persecutory delusions are the most common form of delusions in schizophrenia, where the person believes "he or she is being tormented, followed, tricked, spied on, or ridiculed."[2] In the DSM-IV-TR, persecutory delusions are the main feature of the persecutory type of delusional disorder. When the focus is to remedy some injustice by legal action, they are sometimes called "querulous paranoia".[3]

In cases where reporters of stalking behavior have been judged to be making false reports, a majority of them were judged to be delusional.[4][5]

If the delusion results in imprisonment or involuntary commitment, the person may feel justified in this belief.

omfg I wonder if I have this

If I told you I worshiped the easter bunny and prayed for carrots each night before I went to sleep you would call me insane. But it's perfectly normal to worship a book compiled of hundreds of other books written by unknown people and call it the word of God? How primitive.

"Anti-Faith Sentiment Sweeps US"

Good. It's about time people stopped believing in bed time stories. For as much as religion preaches peace, it has done nothing but cause war.

Anti faith should be sweeping the world nevermind the US. I live in the UK and apart from the horrible muslim population I would say most white people are now atheists. You don't see us reacting violently if somebody draws a picture of Richard Dawkins.

I personally feel that religion has served it's purpose and it's time to move on. We're clever enough now to know there is not a magical sky wizard some people call god. If Stephen Hawking says there is no god and he does then that's good enough for me. He is a man who you would expect to cling onto religion, he is pretty much a brain in a dead body but he isn't waiting for the next life cos he knows there is no next life. He puts knowledge above desire and I respect that.

Let's all grow up and discard our imaginary friends, the world will be a much better place.

Originally posted by OMsk3ptic
I find it ironic that people blame the religious for the atrocities committed by the Church. It's like blaming citizens for the atrocities committed by governments. If you Americans don't want to be blamed for the murder of innocents and children committed by your government, then don't blame the religious for the horrible actions committed by the Church. Both institutions have been corrupted.

Oh...Please! The World has been at war constantly for CENTURIES! Europe was at war with each other for THOUSANDS OF YEARS....WWI...WWII...and it wasn't until the U.S. Finally became a SUPER POWER that this ended. If not for the U.S....Europe, the Middle East and parts of Africa as well as most of Asia would all be speaking Russian!

China and Japan have been at war with themselves as well as others in South East Asia for THOUSANDS OF YEARS....and let's not forget the Crusades!

The U.S. may be at Limited States of War now and then but in comparison to how the world fought before we became a SUPER POWER...is like Night and day! Your statement is uninformed as well as thoughtless!
Split Infinity

Originally posted by TrueBlood
If I told you I worshiped the easter bunny and prayed for carrots each night before I went to sleep you would call me insane. But it's perfectly normal to worship a book compiled of hundreds of other books written by unknown people and call it the word of God? How primitive.

"Anti-Faith Sentiment Sweeps US"

Good. It's about time people stopped believing in bed time stories. For as much as religion preaches peace, it has done nothing but cause war.

We don't worship a book, we worship the One it is about. You have alot of anger and animosity towards those of faith. Let your hatred go, and you can begin to find the path to enlightenment and freedom. Men cause wars, not religion. Take away religion and then what would you have? Nothing but the same old stuff, but on a worse scale. Case in point, murdering unborn babies. When there are no more religions, what then will you blame war, murder, robbery, greed, avarice and a host of many other evil things on? On that day mankind will have no more scapegoats and you will face the very ugly truth that mankind is evil all on it's own. We're already beginning to see that occur.

BTW cool vampire. They make for a nice fairytale.

reply to post by bigrex


As an atheist, personally speaking, the only religious people I hold contempt for are those who force their views onto others, including atheists, such as myself.

You see, 10 years ago, I was subjected to an attempted forced conversion to Christianity by a good friend of mine. For 5 years, we never spoke. It eventually passed but it ensured that I would never embrace religion of any type.

You want to complain about atheists? You can thank those among your faith who took the "spreading good news" part way too far.

Originally posted by VaterOrlaag
reply to post by bigrex

 

As an atheist, personally speaking, the only religious people I hold contempt for are those who force their views onto others, including atheists, such as myself.

You see, 10 years ago, I was subjected to an attempted forced conversion to Christianity by a good friend of mine. For 5 years, we never spoke. It eventually passed but it ensured that I would never embrace religion of any type.

You want to complain about atheists? You can thank those among your faith who took the "spreading good news" part way too far.

I can't be forced to do anything. lol I am a little stubborn myself when it comes to an idea being forced on me. I buck every time.

My experiences have sometimes left me in shock to the point of calling out to God and asking why.

When I looked to man to provide answers they failed me every single time. Why this was I often wondered until I grew up more and in my twenties I learned after a horrible and traumatic expereince that it was MY job to educate MYSELF regarding the Bible. If, when I was finished educating myself I would then decide whether or not I needed to go on to another text.

I put the Bible down as I had read it many times, yet still didn't understand.

When I began to read other texts, like everything I could get my hands on regarding nde, obe, Gods, science, physics, and so on... (took me over ten yrs of constant reading) I then found myself going back to the Bible and saying to myself... "oh.... ok..... I get it now".

Thing for me is this.... no man or woman explained to me the Bible the way I now "see it" or view it. I still cannot relate whole heartily with the mainstream Christian but I can relate to God and for this is all that matters.

One literally has to get into the spirit mode and outside of this material world to even understand a tiny portion of the Bible.

I found that my understanding broaden so wide that now a person of "faith" or a Christian could in no way understand what I have learned through self teaching and self seeking within.

My understanding of the Bible runs deep now. Deeper than I ever could have imagined. It literally has "come alive" in such a way that I can now see the Bible from past to present and see what the future holds. The awesome thing, is although I cannot change one word of it, as it is meant to be so perfectly attached to mans overall journey we call life on earth, that I can see how we can change the ending.

Please know I am not "forcing" a view on you, I am offering for you to view the Bible out of my eyes and then decide whether or not you are an atheist or a seeker.

I can make the Bible come alive for you in so many ways it will make your head spin.

Godless folks who post on ATS and complain and show disdain for the religious have no leg to stand on. You're just as guilty of what you accuse others of being. Look where you are. Honestly! You're not less primitive, cleverer, or more of a critical thinker than anyone else I've seen on this planet. I know you like to think so, but you're really not.

That said, have a nice day!

Reading through this thread I have seen a lot of theophobic sentiment specifically aimed at Christianity. If you were to replace any of the words pertaining to religion throughout many of these theophobic threads with the word homosexual or gay it would be rightly classified as hate speech. I find it utterly appalling that many of you who chastise Christianity for judging and hate are exhibiting the same behavior, intolerance and narrow mindedness that you accuse Christians of spreading.