'Jesus Not Allowed': Anti-Faith Sentiment Sweeps US

Originally posted by littled16
I would defend her, and many others I know would also! Freedom of religious expression in a right given to ALL of us- not just some! Her right to give thanks to god and goddess is just as important as my right to give thanks to Jesus!

I always liked being proven wrong about that and I hope Christians like you end up being more of a norm in your faith and less of an exception.

Thank you. We all need to have each others backs.

Originally posted by pajoly
If you are some thoughtful and aware kid growing up, you see two groups: one has near blood lust and are perpetually angry and hateful, the other is made up of people accepting of others and willing to live and let live. Which one would you want to align yourself with?

Let me guess...
The first group are Athiests and the second group are Christians. At least from my point of view that's how it is.

Originally posted by randomname
what happened to freedom of speech and freedom of religion.

freedom of religion is not to protect the state from religion but protect you from the state.

and its doing exactly that, they have twisted the 1st amendment yet again.

rome persecuted Christians and look what happened to them.

Umm. But wake up dude....in this case the "State" is represented by the public school and the people you mention when you say "but protect you from the state" are actually the people complaining about the state-sponsored religious display. Imagine if a member of the team is Jewish, or athiest, or Muslim. Why must that kid be forced to run through a Christian display. You will probably say, "well, they don't have to," which means they are subjected then to taunts and discrimination.

Keep your goddamned religion out of my face in state-sponsored events. I can only suspect that modern Christians are either rank bullies, elitists or incredibly insecure that they need everyone else to see how special they are. Non have the quiet courage of real conviction. For them, religion is all about show and words and NEVER, EVER about deeds, humility or mutual respect.
It is amazing just how much cognitive ability the Right has given up when they went full on cult.

Originally posted by TheGreatDivider

Originally posted by pajoly
If you are some thoughtful and aware kid growing up, you see two groups: one has near blood lust and are perpetually angry and hateful, the other is made up of people accepting of others and willing to live and let live. Which one would you want to align yourself with?

Let me guess...
The first group are Athiests and the second group are Christians. At least from my point of view that's how it is.

No, the first group is rational humans beings, tolerant and UNAFRAID of others unlike them. The second are skittish, fearful modern heirs to the KKK, terrified of people not like them to the point they actively seek to limit their rights. Whenever I see or hear about a group of Christians protesting the construction of a Mosque, I know there is a group of total hypocrites, total Constitution burners and enemies of freedom. Indeed, those people are exactly the opposite of Christian, rather they are the moral heirs of the 3rd Reich.

Originally posted by pajoly
For them, religion is all about show and words and NEVER, EVER about deeds, humility or mutual respect.

Sounds like you could use a little of that yourself.
Just sayin'.

Has anyone noticed that the rise of the dependent class (people on welfare - takers) coincides with the rise of bashing faith? Does

No, this is a ridiculous assertion that has nothing to do with the subject. The reason is that our society revolves around money now instead or culture and religion, and more of the population lives in cities now than in small towns or the country where people are more conservative.

And there have always been people on welfare. There just more now because we have a bigger population and corporations outsourced all our jobs.

Originally posted by littled16
reply to post by GoldenRuled

 

There has been a recent controversy at a town near my town about those signs the football players run through at the start of the high school football game. An anti-religion organization from up north filed a restraining order against the cheerleaders putting bible verses on the signs. The order has been temporarily lifted and the students are fighting it in court. The Texas Attorney General has made statements supporting the cheerleaders rights to freedom of religious expression. It's all over the news here and has been from the get go.It has even gone national.

Link

Link

I can be both for and against them doing this. If this is a public school that receives federal funds then no they do not have the right because of separation of church and state. But if this were a private Catholic school then yes they have every right. Too bad for these kids they are in a public school and you cannot choose just one religion for a public school.

reply to post by pajoly

Umm. But wake up dude....in this case the "State" is represented by the public school and the people you mention when you say "but protect you from the state" are actually the people complaining about the state-sponsored religious display. Imagine if a member of the team is Jewish, or athiest, or Muslim. Why must that kid be forced to run through a Christian display. You will probably say, "well, they don't have to," which means they are subjected then to taunts and discrimination.

You are right by picking the Christian faith they are automatically making kids of other faiths outsiders. This is why religion was removed from public schools.

reply to post by pajoly


You seem to be making blanket judgements. Not all Christians belong to the KKK and are filled with "bloodlust", nor do they protest building of Mosques or join in the Westboro shenanigans. If they wanted to hold up a sign that said "Evolution is the way....Darwin Rules!" I would support their right to do that as well.

My oldest kid is an Atheist and she supports peoples right to express their faith. She's a wonderful person, and I support her right to have NO religious beliefs. What students do of their own accord involving their faith (or lack thereof) and their rights to express those views is legal (even at school sponsored events) so long as it is the students themselves and not something mandated or instigated by school officials.

Originally posted by Cuervo
reply to post by GoldenRuled

 

It's a public institution where peoples' children are taught. Religion (unless it's an actual class) should not be a part of any speech or policy by the faculty. I would not want my daughter to be preached to by her school teacher who gets paid with my taxes. That's what private school is for.

However, this was a student, not a teacher. I would defend her right to express her religious beliefs because that is her right. She is not paid. She is not teaching. She can say whatever she wants. While I would always make the decision to defend people and their right to worship who they like, I can't help but imagine the Christian parents' reaction if my daughter ended her valedictorian speech with "Lord and Lady, Horned God and Triple Goddess, thank you for your witness. Blessed be!"

I don't think Christians would be as vigilant with their righteous defense of religion.

edit on 29-9-2012 by Cuervo because: gramer grammer grammar!

You're quite wrong, the free exercise clause is afforded to all people.

reply to post by littled16


I think you misunderstood that post. Whoever posted it was differentiating because he/she was defending against people doing exactly what you accused him/her of.

This is a very confusing thread.

reply to post by buster2010


The law says that schools receiving federal funds can't sponsor or instigate religious events or organizations, but they CAN allow them so long as it is student initiated as it falls under the student's protected rights of freedom of speech. It must be entirely OF the students with the school administration and staff remaining neutral. This protection goes for all religious beliefs (not solely Christianity).

Originally posted by GoldenRuled
20 yrs ago, things were just the opposite. The beetles lost most of the country in fans because of 1 derogatory remark they made about Jesus. It is just amazing how this country is going with the wisdom of DC guiding us whether we like it or not to a prosperity we already had. Bring on the persecution!

***Angela Hildenbrand faced the very real possibility of going to jail for her faith. The trouble began when a federal judge ruled that no one at her Texas high school could pray or even use words like "prayer" or "amen" during the 2011 graduation ceremonies.

As class valedictorian, Hildenbrand felt God deserved the praise, even if it meant jail for her.***
CBN News

edit on 29-9-2012 by GoldenRuled because: (no reason given)

Yes, times are changing. People are just getting more negative all around. I also think this case is ridiculous. The way I see it, if students want to assert their beliefs, then they should be able to do so long as they're not disrupting the learning environment or bullying others.

God can't be taken out of anywhere or anything. We are all made in His image.

Tax dollars go to public schools. Teachers all have varying personal beliefs. Students have varying personal beliefs. Their parents have varying personal beliefs. There are just a lot of people who hold many different views out there in the public.

However- how would you feel if I attempted to indoctrinate your child into Orthodox Christianity? I am a former public school teacher, so I had the perfect forum to do that as recently as this past school year. Would you like it? I guarantee you and I have very different beliefs even though we both call ourselves Christians (at least I'm assuming you do). I know I'd be madder than a hornet if someone tried to convert a child of mine to anything else. I'd be all over that school.

My students were atheists, apathetic agnostics, pagans, Muslims (of different sects even), Jews, LDS, JW, Hindus, Buddhists, Christians (of many various sects), and who knows what else. I have (once or twice) had a student come to me and ask me for religious advice. I always told them that I am quite biased on that count and that anything I would tell them would be pro my beliefs and anti anything else- and then encourage them to speak to their parents or guardians on that topic instead. I don't feel that it is my place to dispense such advice to my students without the knowledge of their parents. Religion (other than comparative study for general and historical knowledge) is not the scope of what public schools offer and is- in fact- something a child needs to learn about at home and the various religious institutions a child's family decides to attend.

If there is a loss of religious fervor in our nation- we ought not to blame the public schools. We ought to blame a lot of the general public for not taking their professed religion seriously. Just saying.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


You could be right! It's getting more and more confusing by the minute!

I think we're all starting to get a little frustrated and we're going a bit off topic. I don't think this is what the OP had in mind.

My apologies!

People, RESEARCH!

This young woman was in no danger of going to jail. None.

Even if the appeals court hadn't reversed the judges decision and she still prayed she would not have been arrested or jailed. The school would've been sued. That's it.
The CBN article is reactionary inaccurate alarmist drivel.

perhaps this "Wave" is the 2012 prophecy coming true. Perhaps the "end of the world" is not a destructive end, but an end to a failed way of thinking.

This could be the beginning of the end of religion. With the violence in the middle east, and the over sensitive nature of Christians and other religious groups, perhaps people are seeing that religion is counter productive.

It may be wishful thinking, but i do hope that one day we, as a people, can end the violence and ignorance that comes along with religion.

DC

She should have just a much a right to speak of her christian god, just as someone who believe in Egyptian or Greek gods still, should have the right to speak of them. Heck, if you wanna worship Satan, go ahead. If it isn't real then it should have no effect on you as a person.

I do understand concerns of those ideas influencing the younger children and parents not wanting that influence. However, that is why it up to them t teach their children of all possibilities.

reply to post by GoldenRuled

The beetles lost most of the country in fans

uh... No they didn't.

because of 1 derogatory remark they made about Jesus.

No. They didn't do that either.

reply to post by GoldenRuled

***Angela Hildenbrand faced the very real possibility of going to jail for her faith.

Umm... No. There was never any question of going to jail. That is just silly.

The trouble began when a federal judge ruled that no one at her Texas high school could pray or even use words like "prayer" or "amen" during the 2011 graduation ceremonies.

Incorrect. The judge made no such ruling. He specifically said that she could pray, wear a crucifix, etc. In fact there was absolutely no problem what-so-ever in displaying and declaring her faith.

"Biery ruled that students can express their religious beliefs in speeches, but cannot call the crowd to pray or deliver a message considered a prayer."

(source)

She was delivering a speech at a secular graduation ceremony at a public school, not a sermon at a church or even a religious school.

The distinction is simple, innocent, and obvious. The only way this can be construed as an attack on religion is that it was defending the non-establishment clause in the Constitution from an attack by over zealous religious promoters.

In the end, the Judge's ruling was overruled. The system worked, and it worked in her favor.

What exactly is your complaint? I have heard of sore losers, and there are certainly a lot of them around these days, but sore winners is something entirely new.

reply to post by Dustytoad


Just as non Christians hyperventilate at the very mention of his name. Hate Christians all you want, Jesus was a cool and righteous dude and undeserving of the hate