Real Christianity = not being a Christian

reply to post by daskakik


Genesis 1:26

Then God said, “Let us make man in our image, after our likeness. And let them have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over the livestock and over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.”

Originally posted by dominicus
In the Bible (Mt 18:3) Paraphrased Jesus is saying for people to "Be like Children"

When a baby is born, that child is not any labels, neither Christian, Jew, not an Atheist, not agnostic ....no positions at all, a blank slate ....just merely aware.

As the child grows older, a mind forms from programming and labeling everything as "my name", tree, house, car, girl, boy, constantly updating divisions and labeling of everything.

What Jesus was saying, was to deprogram yourself and all labeling and go back to the original awareness you were as a kid. That means to also get rid of all labels such as "Christian, believer, male, female"

So ultimately, to be a Christian means more so to go to an original state of pre-programmed awareness, which means you also let go of a the label of being a "Christian" or being anything for that matter.

Maybe that's one small aspect. Christian means "Christ Like".

But more than that I found a few verses that I think are relavant. We live in paralysis times. All kinds of madness going on around us at every turn. So we can't just be like children or we'll get slaughtered by TPTB. Here's the verse that I think is key....

"Behold, I send you out as sheep in the midst of wolves; so be shrewd as serpents and innocent as doves.". Matthew 10:16

Like the serpent in the garden was shrewed. He wasn't niave. He knew the way of the world. The ways of TPTB. He wasn't going to be tricked. He was going to control the situation. He was cunning and smart and wise.

We're not to be fools, going along with every stupid hair brained story that MSM and TPTB are trying to shove down our throats. Anything I hear when it comes to major stories such as Iran, 911 or whatever, generally the opposite of what you hear in MSM is closer to the truth.

I think some Christians are so niave. I don't try and wake them up either. I'm almost jealous of them not knowing very much about how the world works. They just live in there little bubble oblivious to anything going on out there. They are better off though as long as the Sdoesn'tHTF, then they won't have a clue what's going on.

I think it's better to know what's going on but the only problem is when you find out what is I find that you don't trust anyone anymore, once you know what kind of phychopaths are running things.

reply to post by NiNjABackflip

Not sure what you mean.

In any case I am talking about the story as a whole.

reply to post by daskakik


de ja vu

reply to post by LeSigh

It's pretty simple. The Church predates the Bible.

Simple? How much more complex can we get? The "Church" prior to the NT is a bunch of Jews going by the OT, with a blood thirsty God who demands animal sacrifices for sins, orders Moses to kill certain armies and their children, and take the women for themselves, and regrets creating humans during the great flood.

Any "Church" prior to the Bible, would be spiritual based, in the spiritual realms.

On top of this, it is only a "Orthodox" take on things you are presenting. We still have Buddhism and many other paths that predate Christianity which also speak of reaching a kind of "Enlightenment" which when described, sounds much like the "Theosis" that Christians describe. Same destination, different road.

One must either accept that the Church which put the Christian Bible together interpreted them correctly, or one doesn't. If one doesn't want to accept how the Church interprets the scriptures, yet still wants to use the scriptures to make up their own way- nobody is stopping them. People do it all the time by rejecting all Tradition but the scriptures. However, it really doesn't make sense for one to accept the scriptures, yet reject the interpretations given by those who put them together in the first place. If I couldn't believe the one, I certainly wouldn't believe the other.

There are SOOOOOoooooo many interpretations. I used to hear all the different points of view, until I had my own personal mystical experiences and the scriptures took on a mystical meaning ...one of them being to "Be Like Children" means to go back to our original awareness prior to all the programming.

Jesus was a mystic not a Christian. He referred to OT scriptures to get the attention of the Jews or else they would not take him seriously. He had to speak their language or else they would not follow.

God does not limit himself and his access strictly to Christians .....when he is unlimited and universally accessible.

When Jesus said "The Kingdom of Heaven is within you," he was speaking to an audience that was not all Christians ......he was saying it's there always and you just have to go within.....

reply to post by dominicus

The term 'Christian' (Χριστιανός) is only used three time in the New Testament...
...and is used by others to describe followers of Jesus who belived He was the Christ or Messiah.

It was originally an accurate description but the meaning has drifted with time...
...to mean someone who belongs to a specific denomination.

More accurately true Χριστιανός could be described as 'Christ-ones'...
...because from the beginning they believed their spirit was in union with the Spirit of the Messiah...
...a claim that true Χριστιανός also describe now ... I am one of them.

reply to post by dominicus

Yes this is true, but in other matters there were things only Jesus could do, so as to make all thing possible, and in that regard all he asked was for us to remember him, and to believe that he was God-sent, so there's a bit of a paradox here regarding your OP, and because once you find Jesus, and his love, you can never lose it, but stil it is nevertheless something that must be found. No need to label, no, but no need to discard the very thing of the most precious value either, which only he could give.

Originally posted by daskakik

Originally posted by LeSigh
They were not. They were created with the potential to become like God. They began walking with God and 'missed the mark' by becoming distracted, so to speak. Salvation is a continual process.

That is a twist to justify the existence of Jesus if I ever saw one. I believe that the text plainly states that they were created in his image and that they later fell from grace.

Apologies. It was in response to this statement. I was merely proving you correct.

Originally posted by jimmiec
near-death.com...
Is this the original form of Christianity? Found with the Dead Sea Scrolls.

Christian Gnosticism is not the "original form" of Christianity, it was a Second Century offshoot that attempted to blend Christianity with existing Gnostic beliefs, which were based on Platonism.

And they weren't found with the Dead Sea Scrolls, they were found buried in Egypt.

In relation to the opening post


You might want to check your commentary before making such invalid false assumptions, teaching the bible carry's great responsibility on judgement day.
The statement was a direct reply to an issue about the roles of people in heaven, nothing to do with what you suggested. Read it in context.
Who will be the greatest in heaven?
Jesus states the person with the least authority on earth will be the greatest in heaven.
How do you arrive at what you suggested?

18 At that time the disciples came to Jesus and asked, “Who, then, is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?”
2 He called a little child to him, and placed the child among them. 3 And he said: “Truly I tell you, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. 4 Therefore, whoever takes the lowly position of this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven. 5 And whoever welcomes one such child in my name welcomes me.


Look here Corinthians 1- 1

28 God chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things—and the things that are not—to nullify the things that are, 29 so that no one may boast before him.
Its about the lowly things, nothing to do with names.


and look here what Paul states in Corinthians 5
12 What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? 13 God will judge those outside. “Expel the wicked person from among you.

Thats labelling people to me, those in the church and those outside the church

You are wrong

Originally posted by daskakik

Originally posted by LeSigh
Interestingly, it is a pious opinion in Orthodoxy that even if Adam and Eve had not sinned- and death had not entered the world- that Christ still would have come in the flesh in order to help us attain theosis.

This doesn't make sense. They were already divine. That is why they were able to walk beside God in the garden. How much more theosis did they need?

I think God intended true ontological union...
...just as two separate humans can become married and 'one flesh'...
...it was intended that the human spirit become 'one spirit' with the Divine Spirit.

The tree/fruit test was intended as preparation for that union ... and they failed the test.

The incarnation, death and resurrection became the new test...
...accepting this foolishness of God prepares individuals for this union of being, this 'theosis'.

Originally posted by troubleshooter
I think God intended true ontological union...
...just as two separate humans can become married and 'one flesh'...
...it was intended that the human spirit become 'one spirit' with the Divine Spirit.

Isn't this what they had before the tree/fruit test?

The tree/fruit test was intended as preparation for that union ... and they failed the test.

The incarnation, death and resurrection became the new test...
...accepting this foolishness of God prepares individuals for this union of being, this 'theosis'.

This, of course, is conjecture. That is one of the problems with the bible.

You also seemed to have missed the point, made in the post I was replying to, which stated that even if they had passed the tree/fruit test, the incarnation, death and resurrection would have still happened because the theosis was still needed. You seem to be saying that it would not have been needed if the tree/fruit test had been passed.

I guess we agree on that part.

Originally posted by daskakik

Originally posted by troubleshooter
I think God intended true ontological union...
...just as two separate humans can become married and 'one flesh'...
...it was intended that the human spirit become 'one spirit' with the Divine Spirit.

Isn't this what they had before the tree/fruit test?

They had 'communion' but not 'union'.

reply to post by troubleshooter

I guess that means something to you but it looks like semantics to me.

They did have a union which allowed them to also have communion. Unless you take these words to mean something else.

Originally posted by dominicus
In the Bible (Mt 18:3) Paraphrased Jesus is saying for people to "Be like Children"

Jesus is saying that we must become as little children and in order to do that, we must be born again which is the very REASON that Jesus came to earth as the perfect sacrifice in the first place.

Our old nature MUST be replaced by a new nature and the only way that is possible is a spiritual birth so that we can be given that NEW nature, or as Jesus said to Nicodemus:

Jesus answered and said unto him, "Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

Jesus answered, "Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again” ~ John 3:1-7

The person who hasn't had a spiritual birth cannot understand God, nor His Words, because they are spiritually discerned...

“But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned” ~ 1st Corinthians 2:14

BTW OP, excellent thread!

reply to post by dominicus


The terms Christian and follower of Christ are used interchangeably but they are not one in the same.

One follows the church and one follows Christ, and it is very important to differentiate the two.

Jesus also taught above all other laws, love your neighbor as yourself and in my experience this is the one thing most Christians I have met fail to put into practice. If Jesus was alive today I bet he`d be a Buddhist.

reply to post by dominicus

What Jesus was saying, was to deprogram yourself and all labeling and go back to the original awareness you were as a kid. That means to also get rid of all labels such as "Christian, believer, male, female"

Actually what Jesus was sayng was "run to me like these little children and do not be afraid to come to me, like a child who runs to a parent with unconditional love, full of hope and faith and complete trust in me". Had nothing to do with labels. He just wants our love and our trust and to have faith in him. Nothing so complicated. It's a simple message. See him through the eyes of a child, not the jaded eyes of an adult wise in their own ways.

Peace.

Originally posted by redindigo
Jesus also taught above all other laws, love your neighbor as yourself and in my experience this is the one thing most Christians I have met fail to put into practice. If Jesus was alive today I bet he`d be a Buddhist.

IF? Jesus IS alive today...

Which is WHY our eyes ought to be focused on HIM and not on people who will ALWAYS disappoint us.

Loving your neighbor means not JUDGING your neighbor.

Jesus ALSO mentioned something about throwing rocks at other people who are just like US...

Originally posted by redindigo
Jesus also taught above all other laws, love your neighbor as yourself and in my experience this is the one thing most Christians I have met fail to put into practice. If Jesus was alive today I bet he`d be a Buddhist.

Buddhism may have had its roots in Solomon's Israel...

Buddha and Jesus: Could Solomon Be the Missing Link?
www.amazon.com...