Real Christianity = not being a Christian

In the Bible (Mt 18:3) Paraphrased Jesus is saying for people to "Be like Children"

When a baby is born, that child is not any labels, neither Christian, Jew, not an Atheist, not agnostic ....no positions at all, a blank slate ....just merely aware.

As the child grows older, a mind forms from programming and labeling everything as "my name", tree, house, car, girl, boy, constantly updating divisions and labeling of everything.

What Jesus was saying, was to deprogram yourself and all labeling and go back to the original awareness you were as a kid. That means to also get rid of all labels such as "Christian, believer, male, female"

So ultimately, to be a Christian means more so to go to an original state of pre-programmed awareness, which means you also let go of a the label of being a "Christian" or being anything for that matter.

We need the Church.

While Christian was originally a label given to believers, there is nothing wrong with referring to yourself as such. There IS a Church and it isn't just a symbolic metaphor. To live a life in Christ means being part of His Church. It is a hospital for sinners and Christ is our Great Physician. We're meant to be baptized into Christ and to take the Eucharist (the medicine of immortality- the Body and Blood of Christ). We're told not to forsake gathering with believers. We need the Church. It is the ark of our salvation.

"He can no longer have God for his Father who has not the Church for his mother; . . . he who gathereth elsewhere than in the Church scatters the Church of Christ" (vi.); "nor is there any other home to believers but the one Church" (ix.). ~St. Cyprian of Carthage (St. Cyprian lived during a time of severe persecution and was martyred for his faith- by being beheaded with a sword.)

near-death.com...
Is this the original form of Christianity? Found with the Dead Sea Scrolls.

reply to post by jimmiec


Gnostics came along after the Church had been around a while. If people are going to assert that gnostic beliefs are the original Christian beliefs, then they carry the burden of proof. Good luck with that.

reply to post by LeSigh

"He can no longer have God for his Father who has not the Church for his mother; . . . he who gathereth elsewhere than in the Church scatters the Church of Christ" (vi.); "nor is there any other home to believers but the one Church" (ix.). ~St. Cyprian of Carthage (St. Cyprian lived during a time of severe persecution and was martyred for his faith- by being beheaded with a sword.)

And yet the early Church had a vast amount of Desert Fathers ...those who left everything to live a very isolated life in the desert working on Union with God and prayer ...and to this day many Christians around the world hold in some of the highest esteem, the sayings of the desert fathers ....

Just as well, some of the greatest saints and mystics of the church, were hermits.

I for one do not agree with the quote, for I know God is everyone's Father whether they know it or not.... we come from the source and eventually return. However, if you chose to believe in an archaic form of division, then I would bid you to reconsider who Jesus himself hung out with and taught ...the scum of the earth, the lepers, whores, molesters, killers, the worst of the worst, and he loved them all and did not divide ......and just like today, it was the church of the days when he was around who challenged him and wanted him killed.

reply to post by LeSigh

Gnostics came along after the Church had been around a while. If people are going to assert that gnostic beliefs are the original Christian beliefs, then they carry the burden of proof. Good luck with that.

The proof is a child .....a child is born a blank slate, yet aware. There is in that slate an unknowingness, there is no divisions or labeling in that state.

What more proof do you need?

reply to post by dominicus


That makes a very weird sort of sense. It's funny because I had a conversation with a friend the other day, and he said he had on many occasions performed an experiment in which he gave a child a box of doughnuts and watched what the child did with it. The child was so happy that it (didn't ask the gender) actually offered one to the teacher as well.

My argument in return was that the doughnut offered to the teacher was a sort of "down payment" in return for future favoritism, like saying, "See? I brought you food. Now I want you to be extra nice to me because I was extra nice to you."

Still, I see where you're coming from - and again, it makes a very strange sort of sense. S&f for the 'food for thought'.

reply to post by dominicus


Hermits, ascetics, monks- they all are part of the Church. Usually, they are even Spiritual Fathers to other Christians. They still commune, they still have their own Spiritual Fathers, they have responsibilities.

The Church is the hospital for sinners. Perhaps you missed that part. The Church isn't divided. If there are divisions, then they are only created when men decide to leave the Church to go their own way. There is one Truth not many.

Little children are raised in the Church. We baptise and commune them. When they're older they can decide whether or not to continue living a life in Christ. Children are not blank slates. They learn, yes. However, many things are encoded from birth. Not everything is nurture.

Yes

reply to post by LeSigh

The Church is the hospital for sinners. Perhaps you missed that part. The Church isn't divided.

Perhaps you missed the part, that if someone is sick, and needs a hospital, they now have to contend with which one is the best one. If I examine the Catholic church and see a majority of molesters in power, then obviously I know not to go there. Then I examine southern baptists and see that they divide themselves by loving they're own but hating everyone else, well then I wouldn't go there either. Eventually I see I need to pray or go directly to God, as "the church", as you say, is filled with corrupted men.

So if you think you will find your salvation in a church amongst men ....good luck with that.

Children are not blank slates.

Really? Wow. Ok well then do I remember when you were born? What were you thinking and how was yur personality when you were 3 months old? You do realize you have all of the scientific community that will claim a newborn child is a blank slate right?

Seriously ....... I guess the earth is flat as well huh? (sarcasm)

reply to post by LeSigh

It is a hospital for sinners and Christ is our Great Physician.

Then why is it that MAN interprets the words and this great physician does not? Every word I hear today is an interpretation according to the ideas and desires of man.

The physician may have founded the hospital, but the hospital does more to poison its patients than anything else. And when the time comes that medicine has advanced beyond the standards of that hospital, what will the hospital do? Cling to its traditions? That is a dangerous practice, when the spirit is involved.

Originally posted by dominicus
reply to post by LeSigh

 

The Church is the hospital for sinners. Perhaps you missed that part. The Church isn't divided.

Perhaps you missed the part, that if someone is sick, and needs a hospital, they now have to contend with which one is the best one. If I examine the Catholic church and see a majority of molesters in power, then obviously I know not to go there. Then I examine southern baptists and see that they divide themselves by loving they're own but hating everyone else, well then I wouldn't go there either. Eventually I see I need to pray or go directly to God, as "the church", as you say, is filled with corrupted men.

The Gates of Hell won't prevail against Christ's Holy Church. When enough people leave to do their own thing and take others with them you get chaos/schismatics/denominations/Gnostics/whatever. They have no unity in belief. However, Christ's Church is united in faith, in praxis, etcetera. It is tangible. It can be found. Yes, the Church is made up of sinners- but as we are the Body of Christ- united with Christ through baptism- then the Church is guided by the Holy Spirit.

Children are not blank slates.

Really? Wow. Ok well then do I remember when you were born? What were you thinking and how was yur personality when you were 3 months old? You do realize you have all of the scientific community that will claim a newborn child is a blank slate right?

Seriously ....... I guess the earth is flat as well huh? (sarcasm)

No, the scientific community doesn't claim all newborns are blank slates. Developmental Psychologists would strongly disagree with you. The very fact children usually don't remember anything before the age of three is due to a lack of effective vocabulary to go with the memories- it's called infant amnesia. Everything isn't about nurture. Nature plays a significant part in early development.

reply to post by dominicus


The last Christian died on the cross, and real christianity with him. Everything after is merely abstractions of that real christianity.

I enjoy your logic on this one and agree with you.

reply to post by NiNjABackflip


That's probably the best way to look at it, because we can all but guarantee that no Christian in existence has the training Jesus had before he died. There's a certain amount of philosophical and spiritual training one must undergo, and we are simply too weak.

Besides, there's a bunch of shiny stuff over there demanding that we burn our money so we can make our bodies happy, because that's what the people on the television tell us to do.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by LeSigh

 

It is a hospital for sinners and Christ is our Great Physician.

Then why is it that MAN interprets the words and this great physician does not? Every word I hear today is an interpretation according to the ideas and desires of man.

The physician may have founded the hospital, but the hospital does more to poison its patients than anything else. And when the time comes that medicine has advanced beyond the standards of that hospital, what will the hospital do? Cling to its traditions? That is a dangerous practice, when the spirit is involved.

The Church existed before the New Testament. The purpose of the scriptures is to attest to the person of Christ, so that people may hear and believe. It is also for instructive use within the Church itself. The scriptures are part of Holy Tradition- not the entirety of it. The Church gave you the scriptures. The Church, being guided by the Holy Spirit, and the faith Traditioned to them via the Apostles interprets the scriptures. Sola Scriptura isn't the right way to go. The medicine is the Eucharist. When believers (no matter how flawed) take the medicine, they literally have Christ in them. Every Tradition of the Church is for the salvation of everyone in it. It is dangerous to abandon that race to leave.

reply to post by dominicus


God knew true Christians before the Earth was formed. As Paul wrote to the Church in Rome

Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Romans 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

reply to post by LeSigh

When enough people leave to do their own thing and take others with them you get chaos/schismatics/denominations/Gnostics/whatever.

And yet you yourself fall within one of these denominations, of which you think your right, and all the others are wrong, and all the others think you are wrong, and only they are right. As I child, I loved everyone, and did not divide or think in terms of ..."when enough people leave to do their own thing ......"

They have no unity in belief. However, Christ's Church is united in faith, in praxis, etcetera.

As a child, everything was already united and there was no need for faith, praxis, etc ...for glory and awe of existence was already self evident.

Yes, the Church is made up of sinners- but as we are the Body of Christ- united with Christ through baptism- then the Church is guided by the Holy Spirit.

As a child, I was not a sinner. Nor can I look at a newborn and say "look at that sinner baby."

reply to post by LeSigh

Every Tradition of the Church is for the salvation of everyone in it. It is dangerous to abandon that race to leave.

And that tradition says we don't have to worry about saving the Earth?

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by NiNjABackflip

 

That's probably the best way to look at it, because we can all but guarantee that no Christian in existence has the training Jesus had before he died. There's a certain amount of philosophical and spiritual training one must undergo, and we are simply too weak.

Besides, there's a bunch of shiny stuff over there demanding that we burn our money so we can make our bodies happy, because that's what the people on the television tell us to do.

It is my opinion that Christianity would rather us burn our bodies, to immolate ourselves and life, in service of an imagined spirituality. First they teach us the theory of the soul, or how to divide the entirety of oneself into pieces in order to devalue certain parts of that entirety, namely the physical aspects. Second, all natural instincts are sin and shouldn't be sublimated, but extirpated. Third, that we must love our neighbor and do service to him before we do service to ourselves. Fourth, that we should deny this life in a quest for the next. etc. etc. etc.

If Jesus did indeed come up with these philosophies, I would say he was merely at the beginning of his philosophical and spiritual training, but died too young to realize how nihilistic his ideas (or Pauls ideas) were.

Originally posted by dominicus


The proof is a child .....a child is born a blank slate, yet aware.

I am afraid none of us were born with a tablua rasa. We enter this world with a host of predispositions built-in.