I never worked and never will

I agree. There is a difference between complete and absolute laziness and taking advantage of the system, and wanting to stay home and raise your children. If you have the means to do so, please do it. But getting your hair and nails done every 2 to 3 weeks, buying new clothes for yourself, buying new phones, buying a system for your CAR is not helping your children. While they go without new toys, clothes and shoes. Running around with dirty diapers outside, holding a beer bottle and nothing else(I've seen it). Im sorry but There is something wrong with that. 


I know plenty of women who would LOVE to stay at home with their kids and raise them. But they know they can't. They know that it teaches them nothing. I'm absolutely happy both my parents worked their butts off. Yes I was sad to not always have them around but I had what I needed and then some. The day after I turned 16 I got a job. Best learning experience for me. My children will have that. If of course by then we are all still here and the world hasn't collapsed. :p either way they will know to pull their weight. 

Originally posted by caitlinfae
I love some of the responses this thread is bringing up. I think it shows a very clear divide between people who have the motivation and the smarts to sort their lives out and those who want to be nannied.

And before you all come at me with a flamethrower....I DO NOT mean people who GENUINELY need assistance. The system is there for people who really are not fit to work, and help should never be taken away from them. Any one of us could be in that same situation at any time, and need the same help...we have to remember that. What I'm talking about here are people who have a sense of entitlement without any kind of contribution. Spongers if you like, women who have baby after baby by god knows who, and that's their life, that's what they're teaching their daughters to do.

So.....there have been some very touching stories here, from real people who are intelligent and dignified enough to run their lives the right way up, even if it means they don't have much. I've seen both sides of this argument very close to me, and it's not something I talk about readily, because, to be honest, I'm kinda embarrassed that I didn't get out of it sooner.

The post I made about my ex's niece? Well, that stinky attitude of hers clearly runs in the family, as my ex was just the same. Made all the right noises about wanting to work, but really only wanted to be an eternal student, never earning any money to help support us, racking up god knows how much in student debt, and fleecing any organisation he could for as much money as he could. He even convinced his college, and his doctors, that he should have disabled student status, even although his "disbility!" was back pain due to weighing 400lbs. The amount of money he got thrown at him was insane...I mean thousands every year on top of his usual student loans. When I did eventually nag him into getting a part time job, on day one...I'm not joking....he hurt his back again and was signed off for months. I had to drive him everywhere, and the funding and benefits kept coming in, because he was smart enough to know how to talk the system. One particular incident that made me really angry, and is in hindsight the point where I should have just walked out, me and the dog and the car. He got a chunk of money for some kind of injury compensation, and spent half or it on.....AN INFLATABLE CANOE!!!! I swear to god I'm not making this up. Didn't pay any of the damn bills that I was having to cover...no...he wanted his lifetime dream of owning a canoe, and let me just say this...the one and only time he used it, it sat very low in the water.............

People who weigh 400lbs don't get like that for any other reason except that they eat too much and don't move enough. Fact. I've seen it, and have to live with it for years, and I guess you could argue it's a kind of mental illness, and that sense of entitlement again, but people like my ex who are smart enough and tenacious enough to argue that they have a disability when they just don't will always get what they want.

I'm a little torn between my natural instinct to live simply, eat home food, not consume more than I need, work close to home, cut down or cut out what I don't need or want, and almost a kind of grudged admiration for people who will work the system so ruthlessly. I work, admittedly not quite full time, but I spend no money on fuel to get there, and have spent decades working 40-50-60-70 hours a week, so I think if I can afford to, I can let up a little now. But I'm so damn careful with the cash that comes in...

Everything is accounted for, budgeted for, planned, organised, homecooked, repaired if I can, recycled, thrift store bought, anything I can think of. Very old fashioned housekeeping and money management...a valuable skill that people just don't have to have any more. Obamaphone woman made me scream!! Do I admire her or do I hate her? I think really I want to slap her, take away her phone and make her live on brown rice and beans for a month.

The thing is, I totally agree with a previous poster who said that even a cashier job is better than being in the welfare system. As soon as they have us in the system, they have us, full stop. They may as well just own us outright. You might argue that working for not very much money is a kind of slavery, and I would symathise with that sometimes, but I see it as freedom....total financial freedom, peace of mind, simplicity....I work, I pay tax, I get paid cash, I pay the bills, my life is sweet.

The slippery slope of this issue is who among us gets to decide who is GENUINELY in need?

I have a very harsh opinion of welfare and how its being abused.. since I see it almost daily. However, I dont see one part of this being expressed in this thread. I work at times with inner city kids.. impoverished youths.. and a few times a kid will come to me and be THRILLED he has landed a job saying he is the only one in his family working. He will come back a little later.. weeks, months.. and say screw it because the taxes eat up his check and his family is bleeding him dry.

Some are not lazy, though I believe most are. Some are stuck in a culture that is all about using and needing a nanny. I bought about 40 home schooling courses a few yrs ago and handed them out. Consumer math. All about how to balance a checkbook, figure your taxes, percentages on sales and etc.. just math for living. MOST of these kids cant read much less understand math.. yet graduated? We expect these kids to become productive and contributing members of our society?? Not gonna happen. Their parents cant even help them because their parents are too "busy" doing whatever.. but it isnt working.. and cant read or comprehend the lessons in the first place. This is when I knew we were doomed. We workers will always carry the lazy and those refusing an education.. and forever will until something yanks a serious knot in some tails. Its worse than ever right now.

I know. flame me whatever and Im so horrible etc. Women of breeding age on welfare.. temporary sterilization is the only answer since some cant figure out how to take a pill a day or make half way intelligent decisions. Im a woman.. Im okay with it. If I get on welfare and keep churning out kids for a buck.. sterilize me.. please. This type takes the food and assistance from those who NEED it. Our elderly, our ill, our disabled, our folks who are workers and need a temp hand. Welfare shouldnt be a way of life for those who are capable.

reply to post by corvuscorrax


I agree it's a very difficult issue, but clearly those in need are often sidelined by people who just want, or who are hardheaded enough to milk the system. With the greatest of respect, I lived through it, I completely understood his game, and could do nothing about it. He knew how to play the system, like millions of others.

reply to post by cahlmac


Without work humans goto seed

in other words they revert back to being a baby

humans need 8hrs work per day, if disabled need to be kept busy or thinking about meaningful things for 8hrs

Its like I always say "if the government can take advantage of us, then there's no reason why we cant take advantage of them." And who are you to judge, congratulations you've been working since you we're 14, do you want a cookie? Everyone lives different lives. It's almost like you think the world owes you something. Guess what the world is off balance and cruel. And more power to that chick because from personal experience, working sucks. FREE MONEY IS ALWAYS GOOD MONEY.

The world is your poker table, so play your cards right...

Originally posted by solizer
Its like I always say "if the government can take advantage of us, then there's no reason why we cant take advantage of them." And who are you to judge, congratulations you've been working since you we're 14, do you want a cookie? Everyone lives different lives. It's almost like you think the world owes you something. Guess what the world is off balance and cruel. And more power to that chick because from personal experience, working sucks. FREE MONEY IS ALWAYS GOOD MONEY.

The world is your poker table, so play your cards right...

A prime example of the attitude I was ranting about in the first place. Anyway, have to keep this response short. I have work to go to.

I think you just proved the whole point of the thread. Way to go

There was a study on ATS a couple of months ago about how a European country (Norway?) had reduced the number of months the state pays unemployment. They found that a % of the unemployed magically found work in the 30 days before their checks ran out.

I have seen it here in the US, and seen it in my own life. I am not saying that those people were gaming the system. They are simply driven by need, which is the greatest motivator. When the state agency calls you and tell you that due to a backlog, your check won't be mailed for six weeks, then you find a way to pay the rent.

I don't blame the poor, even those who take advantage. People are basically children, until you require them to grow up. They are as lazy as you will let them be. We are all like that, unless your personal life experience has taught you a better way.

On the other hand, when things change (and they will, eventually), a lot of people will change the way society pays for the poor.

Back before the progressive movement, welfare in the US was provided by churches and benevolent societies. They helped people, but at the price of splitting some wood or hauling water, or maybe a sermon on the evils of drink. And they took particular care not to give money to criminals. In fact, they often didn't give more than a meal until the person was ready to "reform," whether from drink, prostitution, crime, etc.

Those volunteer agencies didn't do a perfect job--that's why the Progressive movement was born after WWI---they were sure that the government could do a better job than local churches, and without "judging" the people they were helping. That's why government agencies like the Department of Agriculture (WIC, food "stamps") and HUD (the projects) don't do a lot of criminal background checks, or provide "counseling" to the people they help. After all, "counseling" is really just a secular sermon on reforming your life.

Edit to add:

The progressive movement, instead of preaching against he evils of drink, chose to outlaw alcohol entirely. If you read up on Prohibition, you quickly learn that it didn't come from US churches (many, like the catholics, actively opposed prohibition) who had been preaching it for 50 years beforehand. The 'temperance' movement was taken over by the "anti-saloon league." Prohibition leaders used lots of Christian rhetoric to win over the mass of voters, but the leaders of the movement were all progressive Democrats with a few liberal republicans---basically the same demographic that pushes the welfare state today.

The traditional church teaching was that alcohol was a fact of life, and personal responsibility is the only real answer. The progressives sought to outlaw alcohol, so that "weak" people wouldn't fall victim to drunkeness. Again, removing personal responsibility---and with it, liberty....

reply to post by pointr97


I would not want these women to care for my children. What if their reluctance to be productive members influenced my children. Morals and ethics are important to my way of thought. These people are lacking in decency and we are continuing the problem into the next generation. Remember the fable concerning the ant and the grasshopper????

reply to post by cahlmac


Government and state has removed our liberties, stolen our land and dictates how we should live. We live in a technologically rich ere. If people choose not to work what does it really matter. Capitalism works by creating
mickey mouse jobs and handing out mickey mouse money. Leaving most people going in circles chasing their own tails and pie in the sky dreams. Maybe if this happened a bit more often the Fourth Estate would fall....

Originally posted by purplemer
reply to post by cahlmac

 

mickey mouse jobs and.........mickey mouse money.

Yeah well my mickey mouse job for which I get my mickey mouse money puts food on my table, petrol in my car and pays my bills.... Even if it is mickey mouse money, I've worked for it.....

reply to post by cahlmac

Yeah well my mickey mouse job for which I get my mickey mouse money puts food on my table, petrol in my car and pays my bills.... Even if it is mickey mouse money, I've worked for it.....

Without trying to be too critical. What do you do. Look at most people around you. Yes they work but they do not generate wealth. Most people in the western world do not generate wealth. Yes we have some of the richest nations on earth. We live off the back of the poorer nations. That is the truth. It is a premise of Capitalism that people need to work to give them self worth.

Do you not wonder why we work just as hard as we did fifty years ago as technology increases we should work less. We work faster than we ever did before..

We are modern day slaves. The only difference is the slave master has been replaced with paper. Slaves will rebel against a slave master. How many people rebel against money. Through work we facilitate the defence of the fourth estate....

reply to post by purplemer


Self worth or not,.. I am proud of the fact that I am working now and always have worked.

If that makes me a puppet in the eyes of someone else then so be it. I refuse to depend on other peoples taxes to keep me going.

Makes ya want to puke, don't it? I raised two kids by myself. No Government program helped me. I was allways " over the limit" on income. In the meantime, I don't eat lunch daily, scrap to pay the power bill, the doctors, the car insurance ETC< ETC. This is all past tense as my kids are now grown. But I sure could have used a little help. Now adays all you have to do is fill out a few papers and WHAM food stamp card, WHAM Obama Phone, WHAM Medicaid.
I have story to tell about when I was 19 years old. I married at 18 ( idiot, i know). It was a trip to grocery store where this story begins. Wife and I was shopping with about 40 bucks to eat for the week. We were buying all the cheap stuff, as so we "could" eat for the week.

Looking and adding up the amounts, adding in the tax, putting stuff back because it cost to much . I'm sure most of you know that drill. The problem starts at the check out. There's a woman in front of us with two carts of stuff. One cart full of food one cart full of beer & wine. She pays for the food with food stamps, then pulls a damn wad of cash out and pays for the beer. The beer alone beat our little $40 by about $80.

Now remember folks, I was 19 years old full of piss & vinegar. I got really really upset at this BS I was witnessing. When we went outside I said to my then wife " I bet that female dog gets in a damn Cadillac" LOw & behold she came out and went straight for the only Caddy on the lot......This is where the piss & vinegar come into play. And I literally mean piss no vinegar. I opened my mouth to this women as to why she had food stamps and paid for the alcohol with cash.

She said a few choice words about how it was none of my business ( which it was'nt) And I proceeded to piss on her Caddy, right then, right there, while she was trying to put her stuff in the trunk. All down the passenger side, front to rear. Zipped up gave a nice finger salute and went the hell home.And waited for the police. They never came. I have thought of that event from time to time. She must have been perpertrating fraud as not to call the law. Sorry to get so long winded, it happens. Those who need support don't get it when folks just abuse the system. The fact good people who need help don't get because of the low life's you posted about, cooks my damn bacon. Next time you see these folks, call em out on it.Let them know what sorry arse people they are taking from those who could really use a hand up.

Originally posted by EvilSadamClone
The trick to making things work is to live within your means. Get a cheap car, cheap apartment, so on and so forth. Then look for ways to smartly invest your money with good returns for your investment.

Many people don't seem to understand that.

This isn't always so easy, when you have a family.
In my part of the UK, the average price for a 2 bedroom apartment (and let me also state at this point, properties in the UK are tiny compared to in the US) is £600. For the same size property on the other side of the country, they vary from £400 up to £900, and even more in London.
When you have no money, you're limited yes, by what you need, but also where you live.
If you happen to live in a part of the country where the property prices are pretty low, then that's sheer luck, compared to the other people who happen to live in the most expensive parts (not always through choice, since people are born there, or were moved there with families).

Investments are wise, but what good are they when you have no investment capital?

We're not talking about people with those kinds of resources and funds, we're talking about those people who are born and raised on council estates, or the projects, who have absolutely no will or desire to better their lives for themselves. Who would rather sit and home and raise five children to different fathers, just so they don't have to go to work every day.
I don't know why people would choose that life for themselves, but they do. And these are the people we're talking about.

I'm not saying everyone who was raised in these types of areas are the same, since I come from a meagre back ground myself, but you can't live within your means, if you don't have means to live on.

reply to post by Lulzaroonie





Your quote "we're talking about those people who are born and raised on council estates"

Is rather a disingenuous statement to make, the following are just a few who have gone on to

do well for themselves and i'm sure there are many, many more

# J. K. Rowling [author]

# Michael Caine [actor]

# Ray Winstone [actor]

# Cheryl Cole [singer]

# Cliff Richards [singer]

# Gok Wan [TV personality/presenter]

# Mick Hucknal [singer]

# Tom Jones [singer]

# Duncan Bannatyne [entrepeneur]


These words from your post realy struck me 'Those who have absolutely no will or desire to

better their lives for themselves'....thats it in a nutshell! wouldn't you say?

reply to post by Lulzaroonie

This isn't always so easy, when you have a family.

It really isn't all that easy when you're alone either.

But a little here and there generally tends to add up over a period of time.

Originally posted by cahlmac

Originally posted by solizer
Its like I always say "if the government can take advantage of us, then there's no reason why we cant take advantage of them." And who are you to judge, congratulations you've been working since you we're 14, do you want a cookie? Everyone lives different lives. It's almost like you think the world owes you something. Guess what the world is off balance and cruel. And more power to that chick because from personal experience, working sucks. FREE MONEY IS ALWAYS GOOD MONEY.

The world is your poker table, so play your cards right...

A prime example of the attitude I was ranting about in the first place. Anyway, have to keep this response short. I have work to go to.

Actually i have the right attitude. You know as well i do, nothing will ever get fixed, Not the welfare, the wars, the constant surveillance on americans etc. so why not take advantage. Your attitude is that of an ignorant guy that thinks hes better than the next person, maybe not all but enough. As for me, i treat the next person equally, from the less fortunate to the richest person ive met. The world needs less people like yourself. And more people that do not judge.

Oh and work still sucks:-)

reply to post by solizer


Thanks for another fascinating and insightful post. It's always nice to hear other peoples opinions, and to know where they stand on certain issues.

Anyway, this is going to be another short reply I'm afraid..... yeah you guessed it, work again!