Originally posted by Two Steps Forward:The solution is simple: strip from marriage all public consequences at law. Whether two people
call themselves "married" becomes a purely private matter, and whether any particular religious institution calls them "married" becomes a purely
religious matter, in both cases no business of the state. "Married" people would no longer have the benefits they do today, which gay people want.
To gain those benefits, they could enter into a civil union, and could do this whether they are gay or straight. They could also have a civil union
whether or not they are married. Marriage and civil union would become totally separate things, not intertwined as they are now.
Meanwhile, religious groups can set whatever standards they want for marrying people. If your church won't marry gay people, while my Wiccan coven
will, both those decisions are protected by the First Amendment. The decision carries no consequences at law, only in the hearts of the believers. Nor
does your church have to recognize any marriage my coven performs. Whether the state recognizes it or not would no longer be pertinent, as the state
has nothing to do with ANY marriage, only with civil unions.
Would that work for you?
That seems like a perfect solution to this problem - sure, it might inconvenience already "married" couples who have to go through "all that
effort" to register their civil-union (boo hoo
Personally, I don't want to get "married" in a church - after the way we've been treated by those 'loving and caring institutions of faith'
I don't know why any gay couple would want to walk down that
aisle - to me, that would be just like a black couple wanting their
reception to be held at the Klan's meeting hall and asking the grand-wizard to be the DJ.
I do understand that there are many gay people that still have faith and are still active AND PRODUCTIVE members of their church - those are the lucky
ones, where they just happen to be members of a tolerant congregation - I grew up with faith and family - but I know I can't go back the to the
church that I grew up in, the church where my family still goes, the church where I'm just plain 'not welcome'. For Gays that are lucky enough to
be members of a church that doesn't demonize them, if they wish to get 'married' in that church, more power to 'em! IF it means something to
them, and is that important to them they should do it and be happy.
I do not want or need any church's approval to love the person I want to be with for the rest of my life. But gay couples DO deserve the same rights
and protections that are afforded to 'married' couples because it's the right thing to do - a government that is supposed to keep religion separate
from law has a responsibility to provide the SAME rights and protections to same sex 'couples' as they do for opposite sex 'couples'. That's
where a line needs to be drawn - people who wish start a family unit, no matter how non-traditional, should be thought of as "couples" - not
"straight" couples and "gay" couples.
Seems to me that most people are unaware of the fact that all these churches that are anti-gay are also against them . . . Got married at the
courthouse, not in a church by a preacher? Worthless marriage! - Choose not to have kids? Worthless marriage! - Medically can't have kids? Worthless
marriage! - Wife chooses to work instead of staying at home barefoot and pregnant? Worthless Marriage! - Got divorced and remarried? Worthless
marriage! - Bi-Racial family? Worthless marriage! (yes, unfortunately to some, bi-racial is still 'icky') - lived together before you got married?
Worthless marriage! - Got pregnant and 'had' to get married? Worthless marriage! - Anyone in your family a "step" relative? Worthless marriage!
That's what these fundamentalists are telling you - "If you're not a wealthy, white, fundamentalist-Christian MAN and WIFE, with 2.7 children, that
are biologically yours, then you don't count!
That's just how I see it - I don't expect anyone else to see it that way or care if anyone else sees it that way. But to me, that's the way it
seems to be.
I like the whole separate marriage and civil-unions idea - choose to do neither, one or the other, or both! It would fit-right-in nicely with the
whole separation of church and state thing (if that really exists anymore), and it would treat EVERYONE equally. If you're religious AND want the
benefits of legal recognition, get married in a church in front of your friends and family, then go sign your civil-union papers at city hall. -
If you don't care about the legal benefits, just get married at the church - If you don't care about the religious dogma and rituals, just get a
civil-union at the courthouse. It's a simple idea, it doesn't (or shouldn't) "offend", it would be easy to implement, and it would treat
Now, so religious folks won't feel the 'sanctity' of their marriage is in jeopardy we're going to have to use some new words to describe our
relationships - for the social 'terminology' - I propose that if you got 'married' in a church, then call yourselves "Married" . . . and if
you got a 'civil-union' by the Justice of the Peace, call yourselves "Civilized" - Besides, the way things are going now, it seems the people
calling for and standing up for EQUAL rights are the only "civilized" ones around.
As for the whole "Homosexual-agenda" thing, I don't know what that is, unless it's the fight for EQUAL rights. I have not received the 'company
newsletter' that's supposed to tell me what to do as a homosexual, and my cranial-transceiver has not picked up any transmissions that tell me to do
bad things to straight people. If the hope of being treated equally is supposed to be referred to by the derogatory term "agenda", then there is no
hope left. I thought I lived in the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA - where I'm SUPPOSED to be treated EQUALLY! - not the 'Right-Wing Fundamentalist
States of America', where it's: "Do everything exactly like We do it, or get out and don't let the doorknob hit you in the ass on the way to
I can't speak for all Homosexuals, but personally, I have no ill will towards straight people, married people, or even religious people. I don't
want to turn any straight person into a homo - I don't want to break up anyone's marriage or 'ruin the sanctity' of it - I don't want religious
people to stop being faithful or going to church, but until they realize that their religion, and they way they interpret it IS A CHOICE, and that
sometimes their interpretation is causing ALOT of harm to innocent people who just wish to be treated fair and equal.
What I DO want (MY 'agenda', if you will) is simply to be treated the same as anyone else - I want to be able to go out in public and not have
people look at me and my boyfriend like we have leprosy - I want to be able to go to family dinners without leaving my boyfriend at home - the way
things are now I'm screwed no matter what I do - either tick off the family by not showing up, or tick off my boyfriend by leaving him at home alone
- I want to be able to hold my head high (and my Boyfriend's hand) and know that I can do ANYTHING anyone else can (legally) do, and that the law
will be there to back-me-up against people that think they have the right to tell others how they 'have to' live.
Why are so many people so up-tight about that kind of equality 'agenda' anyway? It's 2005 for God's sake! The 21st century! We don't lock
people in towers for saying the earth is round anymore - we shouldn't be condemning people for expressing the love that comes naturally to them!
It's not like if we make gay marriage legal that you're going to have marry one! - we're not going to break into your houses and redecorate
everything with pink chiffon! - We're not going to steal your children and make them watch musicals and force them to learn tap-dance!
If those are the kinds of things you're worried about . . .get over yourselves! We don’t want you all to be like that – just like we don’t all
want to be exactly like you.
[edit on 12/21/05 by paulthefourth]