Those days be shortened for the sake of the ELECT

reply to post by lonewolf19792000

He's not talking about actual women. It's a dangerous thing taking everything for literal interpretation, this is why we have the Helper.

The 144k are those who were never defiled by traditions of men, cults and ungodly religions fornicating with lawlessness.

Thats debatable.
The verse also describes the same 144,000 as having not told lies.
Is that also symbolic? If so, symbolic of what?

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n

if they are successful at it, they are usually rewarded by their peers and society. But they seem to be unaware that it is only temporary.

And they lose the love of God....

The popular doctrine today of loving God, and also being happy among worldly things and to be accepted/approved by the world, by worldly standards is none other than the false doctrine, the anti-christian doctrine for it goes against teachings of Christ!

The Earth which God loves will unfortunately be destroyed also because of all the works of man in it. She has suffered immensely from our hands.

That's why there is no excuse for being friends, even liking the world in the context of the works of man. Do not take pride in your work for it's a shameful abomination thing! Do not even like money! It's full of blood and the cries of innocents in it, it's an abomination!! Give it away!!

You don't hear these in church because they can't stand these!! They don't want to find out the things they love are wretched, full of evil and abominable!

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by lonewolf19792000

 

He's not talking about actual women. It's a dangerous thing taking everything for literal interpretation, this is why we have the Helper.

The 144k are those who were never defiled by traditions of men, cults and ungodly religions fornicating with lawlessness.

Thats debatable.
The verse also describes the same 144,000 as having not told lies.
Is that also symbolic? If so, symbolic of what?

It's not debateable at all if you take everything in context before Revelation. Not telling lies is not symbolic that part is literal.

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000

He's not talking about actual women. It's a dangerous thing taking everything for literal interpretation, this is why we have the Helper.

This one thing I could share in that regards. Note this is just my opinion.

If you were married before you knew Jesus, then it's okay to remain with your partner as long as she came to know Jesus and together, you will follow Jesus to the end.

However, if you are single when you knew Jesus, like me... Note this is now my belief through the wisdom given by the Holy Spirit.

The reason to remain single is the mathematical probability that the woman or man (if you're woman) you will partner with will not follow Jesus to the end cause you to fall from the faith or have strife/divorce later on....

It's not good for God's ultimate Will, and a really bad gamble!!

Kids coming into the equation is another and ever infinitely worse gamble!! We know that only very few among many will find Jesus. Most will be deceived by the humanistic anti-christian doctrine which feeds the flesh or simply, the doctrine of the world.

It's simply like having kids, to bring souls into the world and eventually to Hell! Having Christian parents is no guarantee, remember what Jesus said? "your enemies will be members of your household!"

In a nutshell, bringing kids into this world like trapping souls to bring further suffering to our planet only to bring them to God's wrath!

The mathematical probability is just irrefutable no matter how great a parent you can claim to be, really really bad gamble!!! Christians look down upon gamblers but if you got kids, you are probably the worst of them all!! For you are gambling souls, not only your kids but the other souls they affect!!

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
reply to post by halfoldman

 

The 144k are those who were never defiled by traditions of men, cults and ungodly religions fornicating with lawlessness.

They won't be trinitarian or reject Acts 2:38. The Catholic and Protestant Churches will call them heretics. They will be hated by 99.9% of ATS.

reply to post by ahnggk


Paul does say that it is better to not marry, but if you cannot live that way without it causing you to sin, get married.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000

It's not debateable at all if you take everything in context before Revelation. Not telling lies is not symbolic that part is literal.

If not telling lies is "literal", then theres a good chance that the part about them (the 144,000) being virgins is also probably literal as well. Especially considering its part of the same set of verses.

You say "The 144k are those who were never defiled by traditions of men, cults and ungodly religions fornicating with lawlessness"....

but if it were so, the bible would have mentioned so.

Instead, the print in the bible is pretty clear.... the 144,000 are described as
a) Virgins.
b) NOT having spoken lies
c) Blameless

You just cant say b) and c) are literal and only a) isn't.

lonewolf19792000,

sk0rpi0n has brought up an excellent point. Plus what you are saying "virgins (a)" means, is all covered under b and c.

Originally posted by truejew
reply to post by ahnggk

 

Paul does say that it is better to not marry, but if you cannot live that way without it causing you to sin, get married.

Because the audience of Paul were not reborn of the Spirit yet.

Someone who do, will be able to resist sinning even as single.

Ultimately, being single is the way. So you go unimpeded in the work for God, and stop bringing children into this very evil world where there's an astronomically high chance they will be as evil themselves.

Seek God, seek true rebirth in the Spirit, not some fake emotional high mumbling gibberish, and you will know the truth!

Originally posted by truejew

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
reply to post by halfoldman

 

The 144k are those who were never defiled by traditions of men, cults and ungodly religions fornicating with lawlessness.

They won't be trinitarian or reject Acts 2:38. The Catholic and Protestant Churches will call them heretics. They will be hated by 99.9% of ATS.

That makes absolutely no sense. I don't think there are many christians out there who do not know Yeshua is God. I think you're confused about what trinitarianism is. Trinitarians believe that God fulfills 3 functions, Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Messiah is the Voice of God, the Memra which Created all of us and everything. That which created you and gives you life is your God.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n

You just cant say b) and c) are literal and only a) isn't.

Yes i can because thats how prophets spoke. It could be A was literal, B was allegorical and C was a metaphor. We're not meant to know everything that is in that book and what it means, some of it was directed to past generations and written so they'd understand while the latter parts were written for later generations. Revelation is a book written to be taken into context and being prophetic it conjoins with previous prophecies before it that set the context. Books like Isaiah, Daniel, Hosea, Zechariah, Ezekiel, Jeremiah etc.

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
reply to post by halfoldman

 

That makes absolutely no sense. I don't think there are many christians out there who do not know Yeshua is God.

Trinitarians teach Jesus is not the Father.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000

Yes i can because thats how prophets spoke. It could be A was literal, B was allegorical and C was a metaphor.

How can you be so sure that A wasn't literal as well?

My guess is that they were literal virgins. I imagine the 144,000 to be extremely pious people who have devoted themselves to God and have kept themselves free from any worldly attachments and that includes the desire of female companionship... which is why they are virgins. Maybe, that is one additional step to be completely 'blameless'.

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
My guess is that they were literal virgins. I imagine the 144,000 to be extremely pious people who have devoted themselves to God and have kept themselves free from any worldly attachments and that includes the desire of female companionship... which is why they are virgins. Maybe, that is one additional step to be completely 'blameless'.

Don't take this in the fleshly perspective.

That is easy to do by someone truly reborn of the Spirit. It's not even sacrifice, for that is their passion! For that to be literal is entirely possible, more likely literal than not.

Many things in the Bible that could have been taken literally but chosen to be not because of those wolves in sheep's clothing. They preach God that serves the flesh, a doctrine of meat of the wolves and for the wolves.

Many things in the Bible that sounds absolutely crazy if taken literally but to those truly reborn of the Spirit, it's their passion. Coincidence??

The sheep prefer to eat grass over meat because that is their nature, not because, they were trained to do that. They've been doing that since birth!

To a wolf, it would take great training and sacrifice to make them eat grass over meat and they will probably return to old habits over time.

That's why we should be reborn a new creature. A new creature no longer goes after the flesh but the Bread of Life. Makes it easy to avoid worldly pursuits due to a new nature, new instinct.

reply to post by ahnggk

That is easy to do by someone truly reborn of the Spirit. It's not even sacrifice, for that is their passion! For that to be literal is entirely possible, more likely literal than not.

The 144,000 are probably what I'd describe as "giants among men" when it comes to devotion to God. They are special, Which is why they are also described as "having been redeemed from the earth".

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by lonewolf19792000

 

Yes i can because thats how prophets spoke. It could be A was literal, B was allegorical and C was a metaphor.

How can you be so sure that A wasn't literal as well?

My guess is that they were literal virgins. I imagine the 144,000 to be extremely pious people who have devoted themselves to God and have kept themselves free from any worldly attachments and that includes the desire of female companionship... which is why they are virgins. Maybe, that is one additional step to be completely 'blameless'.

How does having sex affect you being pious? Sex was created for the purpose of reproduction. Being "blameless" has nothing to do with you doing what God created you to do to begin with. The desire for female companionship was installed into Adam from the very beginning, that's why he was given Eve and because Man and Woman came from the same union they long to rejoin that union which is what sex and marriage are for, to become "one flesh" through the act of sex and then procreation. Being blameless can only have to do with them not "fornicating" on God and playing the harlot with religions and cults, witchcraft and magick, but remaining true to him as he has been a husband to them. Case in point, even though he had been a faithful "husband" to Israel, she screwed around on him with Ba'al, Moloch and Ashtoreth many times, driving him out of his own sanctuary in the midst of her, thus she could not be blameless.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000

How does having sex affect you being pious? Sex was created for the purpose of reproduction. Being "blameless" has nothing to do with you doing what God created you to do to begin with.

1. Sex was created for reproduction. Yes.
Which is why the part about the 144k being virgins is puzzling. They are described also as not having "lied" in the same passage.

If the "women" in that particular verse were indeed symbols of false religion, the text would have said so. The concept of worshipping false gods is described in several places directly... so why make an exception in revelations?


2. About your statement about sex...have you read Micah 6:7?

The writer equates a human child to being "the fruit of the body for the sin of the soul".
So what now, does making a baby mean the soul has sinned?

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000

Originally posted by truejew
If the Church and the elect are two different groups, which one do the twelve apostles belong to?

The apostles were jews.

Eleven of the original apostles were from Galilee, so they were of the tribe of Benjamin. Only Judas was of the tribe of Judah. That should put things in perspective.

If you lack a clear idea of the difference between Hebrew, Israelite, and Jew, you may not have rightly divided the Word of God.

Originally posted by Lazarus Short

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000

Originally posted by truejew
If the Church and the elect are two different groups, which one do the twelve apostles belong to?

The apostles were jews.

Eleven of the original apostles were from Galilee, so they were of the tribe of Benjamin. Only Judas was of the tribe of Judah. That should put things in perspective.

If you lack a clear idea of the difference between Hebrew, Israelite, and Jew, you may not have rightly divided the Word of God.

Uh, jews spread out. As we see from Paul's case, they all didn't stay in Judea. Paul was from Tarsus which was in Thrace, or Asia back then which is modern Turkey. Some jews even made it to Rome.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n

1. Sex was created for reproduction. Yes.
Which is why the part about the 144k being virgins is puzzling. They are described also as not having "lied" in the same passage.

Who says that's the purpose of sex? I call bullcrap. Utter bullcrap. All of the times I've had sex, I didn't do it for reproduction. I did it for the bond. For the emotion and the connection that results and is experienced.