Am I Exempt From The 2nd Amendment?, page 2

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ATS Members have flagged this thread 3 times

reply posted on 27-9-2012 @ 06:53 AM by glassspider

reply to post by Asktheanimals

where would you draw the line out of interest, if you think somebody who has paranoid Schizophrenia who has had to be forcibly hospitalised in the past should be given a gun do you think everybody should be able to get one or are there certain groups that you would refuse if the decision was yours,

we also only have the OP's word that he is symptom free and as has already been discussed the very nature of paranoid Schizophrenia means that you can't make that type of judgement call for yourself? not trying to argue with you but i am interested to know if and where you would draw the line. in fairness the speeding comment would be enough for me to say perhaps your not responsible enough for a deadly weapon.

reply posted on 27-9-2012 @ 06:59 AM by wantsome

reply to post by LeatherNLace

I'm my first post I mentioned a shotgun and handgun. The shotgun for hunting handgun for home and hunting.

reply posted on 27-9-2012 @ 06:59 AM by mysterioustranger

I dont believe you are "exempted" as much as excluded by admission to have not met one or more requirements for purchase and/or licensing...

Under those req's...you dont...by your own admission...meet the requirements.

reply posted on 27-9-2012 @ 07:01 AM by 369821

reply to post by DerekJR321

Thanks for that. I was looking but couldnt find it. Hope this helps OP.

reply posted on 27-9-2012 @ 07:07 AM by KaiserSoze

Originally posted by exponent

Originally posted by wantsome
I've been symptom free for over 10 years. I still have access to guns. If I wanted to kill someone I'd use a baseball bat.

You may be symptom free, but you are not cured. If you wanted to kill someone with a baseball bat it would be much much harder than shooting them.

That difference is important to me.

That is a valid point but as they say "where there is a will there a way". This old story is a good example.

Three Soldiers are facing their final test, if they pass this test they will be able to join an elite anti-terrorist force.

A Drill Sergeant enters the room where the Soldiers are standing to attention. He barks the question at them "DO YOU LOVE YOUR COUNTRY!?"

"SIR, YES, SIR!" the Soldiers reply in unison.

"DO YOU LOVE YOUR WIVES?!" the Drill Sergeant yells.

"SIR, YES, SIR!" the Soldiers reply in unison again.

"WHAT DO YOU LOVE MORE!? YOUR COUNTRY OR YOUR WIFE!?" the Drill Sergeant inquires.

"SIR, MY COUNTRY, SIR!" the Soldiers reply in unison.

"WELL THEN MAGGOTS! PROVE IT!" he shouts before giving each soldier a handgun and leading them into the next room which contains three doors, the Drill Sergeant puts each Soldier in front of a door.

"Your wife is in the room in front of you" he tells all of the soldiers "as a member of an anti-terrorist organisation you have no room for weaknesses!, take your guns and KILL YOUR WIVES!"

One Soldier breaks down immediately and rushes into the room to retrieve his wife, they leave together.

The second Soldier takes his gun and walks into the room, after about five minutes he comes back out with his wife looking very pale "I couldn't do it" he says and leaves with his wife.

The third Soldier walks into the room and after about four minutes a loud bang is heard which echoes throughout the hallways immediately afterwards however there is suddenly a lot of loud crashing and screaming.

The Soldier comes out of the room looking very pleased with himself.

"WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED!?" the Drill Sergeant demands.

The Soldier replies "the gun was loaded with blanks, so I had to beat her to death with the chair!"

reply posted on 27-9-2012 @ 07:08 AM by Night Star

I must say that you have already recieved the best advice from your fellow posters and should not own a gun of any kind. It's up to you now to understand and accept it. Good luck and best wishes.

reply posted on 27-9-2012 @ 07:09 AM by wantsome

Originally posted by glassspider
reply to post by Asktheanimals

where would you draw the line out of interest, if you think somebody who has paranoid Schizophrenia who has had to be forcibly hospitalised in the past should be given a gun do you think everybody should be able to get one or are there certain groups that you would refuse if the decision was yours,

we also only have the OP's word that he is symptom free and as has already been discussed the very nature of paranoid Schizophrenia means that you can't make that type of judgement call for yourself? not trying to argue with you but i am interested to know if and where you would draw the line. in fairness the speeding comment would be enough for me to say perhaps your not responsible enough for a deadly weapon.

I know reality I didn't always have schizophrenia. Onset of the illness started when I was 17. I didn't get diagnosed until I was 20. It took me 3 or 4 years to recover. I'm more sound mind now then most people I know without schizophrenia. I haven't had hallucinations or delusions in over 12 years. My medication has been cut down to almost nothing. I only take one med and it's a very low dose.

reply posted on 27-9-2012 @ 07:15 AM by blacko

Due to your history of and current ongoing mental illness, you cannot legally own a firearm.

Either you're going to lie on the 4473 form, have a friend commit a straw purchase for you where he lies on the 4473 form, or you're going to lie to an individual's face when they ask if there is anything restricting you from owning firearms. Very selfish of you all the way around.

End of story.

reply posted on 27-9-2012 @ 07:27 AM by glassspider

reply to post by wantsome

i hope that continues to improve for you,you should be very happy that you've been able to get yourself so far but from a few comments in this thread you have shown poor judgement and a lack of understanding of the effects of your behaviour on other people in the world as if you see yourself and your needs the only things worth considering

The speeding comment made me cringe you are already in possession of a deadly weapon and you show no care for the damage you could do with it to other people by losing control speeding. personally i would have people jump through a hell of a lot of hoops to get a gun medical checks, proper training, psych evaluations, criminal record checks but as i've already said i'm from england we have a very different attitude to firearms of any kind, even recently when the two police women were killed by a man with a gun and a grenade a few noisy people jumped up and down demanding the police were armed whilst the majority of police and police organisations insist that they don't want guns because it puts them in more danger, we just come from a very different place. either way it seems you will do whatever you can to get a gun and there are plenty of people on here giving you advice on how to sidestep the rules so i can only hope that you have a more responsible attitude to your gun when you have it than your car. and i hope that neither you or your neighbours are killed or maimed because of your determination to have a weapon. good luck

reply posted on 27-9-2012 @ 08:04 AM by jaynkeel

Well a simple solution to the hunting problem would be give your friend the $$ to purchase the weapon you want. Although they would be the lawful owner of that gun it would between the two of you be your gun. And when your not hunting have them hold on to it, in a secure place of course. This way you have your own gun but it's not in your possession 24/7 where it could become a liability if things mentally went south. I am guessing this friend is the person you go hunting with as well so it wouldn't be an issue for the purpose your saying. Thats about the only way I could think of to help you in your situation, also have you looked into a high power airsoft rifle? Those things when used with quality ammo can be pretty useful in small game hunting, and I am pretty sure there is no limitations as to ownership. I totally feel your anger/pain/frustration about the whole situation, I would be ticked off myself if I wasn't able to own my guns. And I stopped hunting many moons ago, just a plinker and target shooter now days, and am traing my younger children how to properly use a firearm, might have to get a new hunting licence in the near future though so I can add that to my list of things to teach them as well. Good luck in your problem and whatever you do try your best to do it legally as it's not worth the headache of braking the law.

reply posted on 27-9-2012 @ 08:04 AM by exponent

Originally posted by wantsome
I know reality I didn't always have schizophrenia. Onset of the illness started when I was 17. I didn't get diagnosed until I was 20. It took me 3 or 4 years to recover. I'm more sound mind now then most people I know without schizophrenia. I haven't had hallucinations or delusions in over 12 years. My medication has been cut down to almost nothing. I only take one med and it's a very low dose.

Nobody is impugning you personally here. The problem is that delusions inherently are not something you can easily detect. Paranoia and the feeling of personal infringement are common in schizophrenic episodes. It's a genuine illness so please don't think anyone is saying you are being dishonest.

Why not work out a reasonable solution that obeys the law? If you are not permitted firearms, then arrange to go hunting with someone who is permitted and who can supervise your use of them?

reply posted on 27-9-2012 @ 08:39 AM by projectvxn

Originally posted by 369821
reply to post by projectvxn

Incorrect. Some states do not care about mental health status. And usually a gun shop only has your criminal history run, and nothing else. Especially with the current patients rights/privacy laws.

Not so. NICS is a federal system nearly all states participate in. The law that governs the NICS requires you to be of sound mental health. You are however correct to say that current law prohibits the disclosure of mental health records for a background check to purchase a firearm. That is a problem I think needs to be addressed because I don't want the OP or anyone else with severe mental problems to be able to purchase firearms at all.

reply posted on 27-9-2012 @ 09:55 AM by truthermantwo

reply posted on 27-9-2012 @ 10:07 AM by wantsome

Originally posted by exponent

Originally posted by wantsome
I know reality I didn't always have schizophrenia. Onset of the illness started when I was 17. I didn't get diagnosed until I was 20. It took me 3 or 4 years to recover. I'm more sound mind now then most people I know without schizophrenia. I haven't had hallucinations or delusions in over 12 years. My medication has been cut down to almost nothing. I only take one med and it's a very low dose.

Nobody is impugning you personally here. The problem is that delusions inherently are not something you can easily detect. Paranoia and the feeling of personal infringement are common in schizophrenic episodes. It's a genuine illness so please don't think anyone is saying you are being dishonest.

Why not work out a reasonable solution that obeys the law? If you are not permitted firearms, then arrange to go hunting with someone who is permitted and who can supervise your use of them?

Supervision? I''m a grown ass man I know what I'm doing. Don't read me the riot act about delusions either I know what they are quite well. I have enough insight to know when I had them and when I don't. I've seen religious people with more delusions then me.

reply posted on 27-9-2012 @ 10:10 AM by wantsome

Originally posted by projectvxn

Originally posted by 369821
reply to post by projectvxn

Incorrect. Some states do not care about mental health status. And usually a gun shop only has your criminal history run, and nothing else. Especially with the current patients rights/privacy laws.

Not so. NICS is a federal system nearly all states participate in. The law that governs the NICS requires you to be of sound mental health. You are however correct to say that current law prohibits the disclosure of mental health records for a background check to purchase a firearm. That is a problem I think needs to be addressed because I don't want the OP or anyone else with severe mental problems to be able to purchase firearms at all.

What do you know about mental health problems? Not every body with mental health issues is a James Holmes.

reply posted on 27-9-2012 @ 10:28 AM by truthinfact

reply to post by wantsome

Are you worried about hurting yourself or others????

If the answer to that question is an Easy NO, than I believe you should be able to own your own hunting guns.

edit on 9/27/2012 by truthinfact because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 27-9-2012 @ 11:52 AM by projectvxn

reply to post by wantsome

I know enough to know that someone with a confirmed case of paranoid schizophrenia does not hold my confidence to be discerning enough to handle the responsibility of owning firearms.

reply posted on 27-9-2012 @ 11:53 AM by ProjectJimmy

If you were involuntarily committed to a mental health institution in the United States after becoming a legal adult it stands to reason that you were at one time a danger to yourself and/or others. It's not your fault but it is your reality.

Much in the same way it would be illegal for a blind person to drive, you simply do not meet the health requirements for the activity you wish to undertake legally. There are a great many things that require health standards and sadly some of us do not meet them. My grandfather for instance wanted to become an aircraft pilot, however his vision was too poor to get licensed for it.

If you lie on your forms, you have committed a criminal act. If your friend straw buys you a firearm then both you and he have committed a criminal act. As was said by another, undertaking such an act because you simply want to is incredibly selfish and something that is blatantly without regard for the society you live in.

You have a disability. While it is in no way your fault, it is something you must live with. How many blind people would love to see, and deaf people love to hear? Count yourself lucky that your disability is not so severe and that you are able to function normally instead of getting all upset over the things you cannot have.

reply posted on 27-9-2012 @ 12:13 PM by flyswatter

Originally posted by wantsome

Originally posted by projectvxn

Originally posted by 369821
reply to post by projectvxn

Incorrect. Some states do not care about mental health status. And usually a gun shop only has your criminal history run, and nothing else. Especially with the current patients rights/privacy laws.

Not so. NICS is a federal system nearly all states participate in. The law that governs the NICS requires you to be of sound mental health. You are however correct to say that current law prohibits the disclosure of mental health records for a background check to purchase a firearm. That is a problem I think needs to be addressed because I don't want the OP or anyone else with severe mental problems to be able to purchase firearms at all.
What do you know about mental health problems? Not every body with mental health issues is a James Holmes.

The fact is that you are not, and never will be, "cured" of your mental illness. By your own admission you still take medication. Regardless of the dosage, that still indicates that at least one mental health professional believes that you still require it for maintenance of your condition.

I think that these types of things could be handled on more of a case-by-case basis, but by the letter of the law, you cannot legally purchase a firearm. You could always lie on forms, but that would only make your situation worse.

reply posted on 27-9-2012 @ 12:56 PM by benrl

I am a HUGE 2nd amendment supporter.

You can look at all my post, people will tell you I defend that right on here often.

Even I understand and admit the reason is sound as to why Felons and people with Physiological disorders such as schizophrenia should be exempt from the right to bare arms.

If its been years since an episode it doesn't mean something else could trigger it, my Best friends father would go years with out an episode, than one day he'd take my friend and be found hiding somewhere because "they" where coming from him.

I can only imagine what would happen if he had been armed.

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