In U.N. Speech, Assange Demands U.S. End Persecution of WikiLeaks and Bradley Manning

First post. I'm a little disappointed with the focus of some of your replies to this. It seems many of you are looking at the man and not the information. Regardless of how you feel about Bradley Manning , his continued incarceration without trial is ILLEGAL. Does he not deserve a fair trial like everyone else? If you witnessed crimes and immoral actions, how would you conduct yourself? Would you sit back in silence? Much of the focus seems to be on the messenger and not the message, which is the very thing these corrupt and exposed entities want. Yes what Bradley Manning is accused of, if convicted, would make him a criminal, but only in the eyes of the very people that he's trying to expose. He broke laws that protect the criminal and allow for subterfuge and back hand dealings,murder and secret torture. If the laws he broke didn't exist, governments would have no choice but to respect each other and find more diplomatic solutions to their problems. If the United States conducted itself in the manner that a superpower and self proclaimed world police should conduct itself, there would be nothing to blow a whistle at. Bradley Mannings exposé didn't harm US relations with other countries, the US' actions did that. The atrocities and embarrassments found in the WikiLeaks documents were not done by Manning or Assange, they were only cast into the light. Those documents should be used to put the real criminals in jail. I've read only the smallest percentage of what's been released by WikiLeaks and it is appalling and quite evident that the worlds governments do not know how to conduct themselves in a manner respectful to the people they govern. We are not Nations, we are human beings separated by invisible lines that determine how we must conduct ourselves, and the freedoms we have, dependent on our relative position on the globe. It's time we evolve our minds and hold government accountable for the way it conducts business, and realize if these actions are condoned by we the people , they very may well be imposed upon us at some point too. ATS is here to expose and search for truth, not to flame the people out there trying to hand us truth on a silver platter.

Originally posted by mobiusmale
(and, um, I don't buy in the whole Sweden will send him to America rap - Britain could just as easily dispatch him)

Let's see. Sweden a country that lets CIA snatch people up without even the simplest hearing. Hasn't denied a extradition in a decade. Uk a country where for example one McKinnon has been succesfully fought extradition to US for more than 8 years.

Originally posted by projectvxn

Originally posted by purplemer
reply to post by projectvxn

 

Bradley Manning stile those secrets and he should be exactly where he is.

So the man exposes war crimes, murder and torture by the US military.. He has been detained without trial and tortured..and you think he should be there. You are a defender of the Fourth Estate! I prefer to be a defender of free speech and transparency of government. Look at what happened over the last century. Do you what a repeat of it...

Bradley Manning is a member of The United States Army. He is subject to UCMJ. What evidence do you have that he has been tortured?

edit on 27-9-2012 by projectvxn because: (no reason given)

THe answer is none, just as the there is no evidence of US doing "war crimes." It is all produced in the minds of hte true believers.

Yes because killing civillians or sending them overseas to be tortured is not a war crime. Not if US does it.

Forensics threw out any trace of Assange's DNA from 1 of the 2 condoms.

He isn't charged with any current sexual offence. Wanted only for interrogation, which Sweden's own laws allow to be carried out out of Swedish borders.

The 2 Women Anna Ardin / Sofia Willen themselves initially didn't seek rape complaint.

They reported to a Police Station to ask if it was possible to request a STD HIV test be conducted on Julian Assange under any applicable judicial provisions.

Nothing to do with rape charges.

Bradley Manning - the US Military violated its own UCMJ laws and court martial procedures.

The Collateral Murder video showed that the US can and happily do break Geneva Convention by loopholes.

FOIA request for the video from Thomson Reuters was as if non-existent to the upper rank of US Military.

reply to post by purplemer


But the truth misused and/or out of context is far more dangerous.

Something sociopaths like Assange would never accept because they care about no-one.

As an aside, I'm surprised no-one has suggest Assange is the antichrist (not that I believe in such things)

Originally posted by AndyMayhew
reply to post by purplemer

 

But the truth misused and/or out of context is far more dangerous.

Something sociopaths like Assange would never accept because they care about no-one.

As an aside, I'm surprised no-one has suggest Assange is the antichrist (not that I believe in such things)

Just curious if you have actually visited Wikileaks and read the actual documents generated by our Military as well as diplomatic correspondence.If not, your observations are moot, If so then you are obviously entitled to your opinion. My understanding is Assange offered the White House access prior to release but they declined. This hardly appears to be the act of a sociopath. I paraphrase, however I believe The New York Times claims Wikileaks is the best thing since the Freedom of Information Act.
Considering these Wars and deaths are being fought in my name, as an American I'd like to know what the hell is actually going on. A subject [ War ] the White House and MSM appear reluctant to discuss.

Originally posted by dazbog

Originally posted by AndyMayhew
reply to post by purplemer

 

But the truth misused and/or out of context is far more dangerous.

Something sociopaths like Assange would never accept because they care about no-one.

As an aside, I'm surprised no-one has suggest Assange is the antichrist (not that I believe in such things)

Just curious if you have actually visited Wikileaks and read the actual documents generated by our Military as well as diplomatic correspondence.If not, your observations are moot, If so then you are obviously entitled to your opinion. My understanding is Assange offered the White House access prior to release but they declined. This hardly appears to be the act of a sociopath. I paraphrase, however I believe The New York Times claims Wikileaks is the best thing since the Freedom of Information Act.
Considering these Wars and deaths are being fought in my name, as an American I'd like to know what the hell is actually going on. A subject [ War ] the White House and MSM appear reluctant to discuss.

Even the Bible says that in the last days, the inhabitants of earth will groan from the weight of ignorance and seek the word of the Lord but not find it, right? Well, if Assange's job is providing a truthful angle on corrupt global schemes, isn't he working for the Lord's side? The side of truth?

Not to Bible beat, but the poster above brought "anti christ" into this discussion and I wanted to point out that antichrist denies truthful information while prophets tell you things that are hard to accept.

It's not right to call Assange an antichrist or Manning a traitor.
I doubt either one of them appreciate where their friends have brought them.
Their enemies are laughing at the thoughtlessness of such friends.

If certain commands in the U.S. military acted more honorably we shouldn't have Wikileaks considered as an adversary. (Wikileaks doesn't seem to play favorites.) It seems most of the classified stuff released there and upsetting the U.S. government is of a CYA nature. (Incident reports, diplomatic feeds, and things like that.) Not much in the way of materials/movement or technological information, which are classified for good reason. Also if they're finding that intel is compromised, then Wikileaks should still be at the bottom of their concerns. (Other parties which are true adversaries would be willing to pay much better.)

Also if there wasn't reason to worry about Wikileaks, we probably wouldn't have the issues leading to the recent stand-down either. Then soldiers wouldn't have that burden of conscience or whatever is going on that they're trying to keep hush-hush. It's probably harder to keep up that courage and commitment when they find that third part of the formula everyone learns in boot camp is missing. (My guess is that many don't appreciate being used as a soldier of fortune by proxy - where somebody else is benefiting, and then held indentured by contract. That's not what they signed on for.)

As far as what's going on with Assange, I'm sure we're all curious as to whether or not his organization has any more beans to spill, concidering the contentious nature of what's going on right now. Who wouldn't be, considering we're at a conspiracy forum.

Originally posted by pauljs75
If certain commands in the U.S. military acted more honorably we shouldn't have Wikileaks considered as an adversary. (Wikileaks doesn't seem to play favorites.) It seems most of the classified stuff released there and upsetting the U.S. government is of a CYA nature. (Incident reports, diplomatic feeds, and things like that.) Not much in the way of materials/movement or technological information, which are classified for good reason. Also if they're finding that intel is compromised, then Wikileaks should still be at the bottom of their concerns. (Other parties which are true adversaries would be willing to pay much better.)

Also if there wasn't reason to worry about Wikileaks, we probably wouldn't have the issues leading to the recent stand-down either. Then soldiers wouldn't have that burden of conscience or whatever is going on that they're trying to keep hush-hush. It's probably harder to keep up that courage and commitment when they find that third part of the formula everyone learns in boot camp is missing. (My guess is that many don't appreciate being used as a soldier of fortune by proxy - where somebody else is benefiting, and then held indentured by contract. That's not what they signed on for.)

As far as what's going on with Assange, I'm sure we're all curious as to whether or not his organization has any more beans to spill, concidering the contentious nature of what's going on right now. Who wouldn't be, considering we're at a conspiracy forum.

Not to derail the topic, but have you read Frank Herbert's book Hellstrom's Hive? It talks about "sensitive agencies under the USA executive arm" having a very vested interest in stealing new technologies. But if you think about it, maybe that is a necessary protection. I am not sure what to think.

I believe truth is the right path -- maybe that's unAmerican, but valley forge and that stuff was a lot more straightforward than the "War of a Thousand Fronts" that the USA wages today.

As a veteran I am sickened by endless war and endless theatres of war,
wishing humanity could focus on food before fuel. If you understand, local growing beats the need for oil money in the first place. If you don't need to transport goods in the first place, you don't really need transportation, do ya?

I think the pharaohs had that all figured out -- food first then fighting.
Egypt was the place people went when no one else had food, as they were the only culture with foresight.
As demonstrated by the pyramids, which are a gift to humanity as a whole because they teach us Golden math.

As a race we have lost many secrets, many years, many things that would have made our lives better.
We should not support the people who would arbitrate over your right to know things... especially if those things influence your VOTE.

See, information and voting, they are intimately related. Maybe Americans should wake up and vote for a third party candidate. See if he spills some beans instead of websites having to do the President's job.

reply to post by KhufuKeplerTriangle


If you see something wrong being done you bring it up your chain of command. You don't break your oath or violate your NDA.

I'm in the Army. I have a security clearance. My country is entrusting me with mission data that could be used against us to kill our fellow troops or diplomatic efforts overseas. I will not be party to that. The fact that Bradley Manning decided to turn his back on his brothers and sisters in uniform, regardless of the reasons, makes him a traitor in my eyes.

Bradley Manning has exceeded the 4 months/120 days legal limit for imprisonment under provisions of

-Rule for Court-Martial (R.C.M.) 707

-Article 10 of the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ) (10 U.S.C. § 810)

The US Military uses laws when it sees fit

Under military law his detention is illegal, any court martial judge who goes against the above limit is a clear case of corrupted integrity.

reply to post by projectvxn


Yes because when you uncover corruption and crimes you report it to the people who are doing it That'll work.

Originally posted by projectvxn
reply to post by KhufuKeplerTriangle

 

If you see something wrong being done you bring it up your chain of command. You don't break your oath or violate your NDA.

I'm in the Army. I have a security clearance. My country is entrusting me with mission data that could be used against us to kill our fellow troops or diplomatic efforts overseas. I will not be party to that. The fact that Bradley Manning decided to turn his back on his brothers and sisters in uniform, regardless of the reasons, makes him a traitor in my eyes.

edit on 28-9-2012 by projectvxn because: (no reason given)

Ok, I get what you're saying. However...

I guess my experience in the service was worse than yours. I saw my own people getting medically destroyed outside of combat. You read about Dover AFB anthrax scandal? HALF their flight crew was disabled after the vaccine, prompting Senator Biden and two congressmen to write a letter asking the military to halt the experimental anthrax vaccine program. It was a 6 stage vaccine which was causing progressively worse disease in those with reactions to it. I had a Senior Master Sergeant express personal concern about this to me -- he was getting sicker every time he received the shots.

Not to mention Mefloquine tablets. Three months before my unit went to Uzbekistan (then got kicked out after a political riot and massacre), the Pentagon had received information to the effect that mefloquine tablets were causing permanent brain damage in murine models. Human brain tissue was also examined and mefloquine was discovered to collect specifically in brain tissue, causing brain stem damage...

Why should you care? They handed this stuff out to us in unmarked bags without literature, and some of the men took it. The schedule wasn't well explained, and mefloquine is extremely dangerous if you take the wrong dose. So dangerous in fact that it's used like scopalomine or amphetamines during torture and interrogation. At literally the same time as we were being given mefloquine in Uzbekistan, the Gitmo interrogators were also giving it to the prisoners there. Do you know what drug the Halliburton KBR guys got to take at both locales?

MALARONE. More expensive, less harmful, newer.
Why did they give a drug known to cause permanent brain damage to the Air Force troops after the Pentagon received word that mefloquine is a zombie drug and is linked to recent mass murders, like Fort Bragg shooter and Robert Bales? Somalia massacres?

I ended up doing my own research and sending a huge letter about Mefloquine to the adjutant general of the WVANG. So, not sure how I skipped my chain of command really, considering no one without an education would have understood my concerns or cared. Now after the Robert Bales shooting we had another Mefloquine investigation by the Pentagon.

Who is ***ing up more here, the big mouths or the big brass?
IMO it's the leadership. They could care less about our health.
The Army general who cared the most about trainee and troop health died on 9/11 when the Pentagon was hit.
And we're still taking Mefloquine for some reason.

I believe wikileaks is a good thing in our society.
Screw ignorance.

EDIT: the UCMJ is unconstitutional and was created almost in the same breath as the CIA and the Air Force thanks to the National Security Act of 1947.
I consider the Air Force to be a breakdown in continuity of command.
The Army was fine with an air division.
Also the CIA is a peacetime warmongering machine, figure that one out for me.

Originally posted by projectvxn
reply to post by KhufuKeplerTriangle

 

If you see something wrong being done you bring it up your chain of command. You don't break your oath or violate your NDA.

I'm in the Army. I have a security clearance. My country is entrusting me with mission data that could be used against us to kill our fellow troops or diplomatic efforts overseas. I will not be party to that. The fact that Bradley Manning decided to turn his back on his brothers and sisters in uniform, regardless of the reasons, makes him a traitor in my eyes.

edit on 28-9-2012 by projectvxn because: (no reason given)

Fully appreciate your position, but can you see it is just more 'Us vs Them'?
Acting in true conscience is more a 'we're all in this together' type of thing.
If I discovered the kind of inauthenticity and deception Manning discovered, I'd be duty bound to disclose it, not hide it out of indoctrinated loyalty to some egoically driven and controlled clan.
I doubt I'd have the courage to put my life on the line though, unless I felt my children were at imminent risk, so he's either braver than me or more naieve!

Originally posted by projectvxn
Bradley Manning took an oath and signed an NDA. He violated both and severely hurt US relations around the world as well as hampering operations that were active when he released the information to Wikileaks. He should be prosecuted and jailed for the maximum amount of time possible.

Wikileaks itself should be left alone as well as Julian Assuage. Publishing classified material is not a crime unless you are the caretaker of that information as Manning was.

Actually, I think Manning did his job perfectly - protecting the citizens of the US from enemies both foreign AND domestic.

It's only Americans ridiculous sense of patriotism and "How DARE he release our secrets" that keeps him locked up and suffering inhumane torture. America is a nation that revolves around revenge - my oh my did they go wrong somewhere down the line.

reply to post by mobiusmale

Agreed. Further more ... Who the heck does he think he is anyways? He's appearing in front of the UN and 'demanding' things? It's absurd that he even was given the time to do that. But then again .. it's the UN ... they aren't the brightest tools in the shed ...

Originally posted by FlyersFan
reply to post by mobiusmale

 

Agreed. Further more ... Who the heck does he think he is anyways? He's appearing in front of the UN and 'demanding' things? It's absurd that he even was given the time to do that. But then again .. it's the UN ... they aren't the brightest tools in the shed ...

I believe the request came from the Ecuadorean Embassy under the banner of " Strengthening Human Rights " Assange was included along with the Ecuadorean Foreign Minister Ricardo Palino and Baher Azmy legal Director for the Center for Constitutional Rights. The presentation did not address the entire U.N assemble. It was telecast in a room off the main assemble floor. " Who does he think he is anyways " He is a fellow being subjected to the considerable weight of the United States Government and Britain crawling up his arse. If you had the opportunity to perhaps address the Nations that were the focal point of some damning Diplomatic correspondence generated by Hillary Clinton they may consider applying political pressure toward America to drop their witch hunt.
The Ecuadorean Embassy has hinted they will transport Assange to their Embassy in Sweden to facilitate the Swedes concerns. Britain being the Lapdog of the U.S will more then likely not agree.
The fact is,this is not now, nor ever been about a broken condom or any such nonsense. The U.S. wants his ass in their grubby little hands to do with as they chose. In addition [ prior to all this girly crap ] how dare they request VISA, PayPal BofA etc to withhold my money that I send to support Wikileaks.

Considering the state of affairs in America and our resent history would YOU surrender your body to America ? And make no mistake, this is all about America having its way. Nothing else !