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Would would be the actual ramifications if everyone in the US stopped paying federal taxes?

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posted on Sep, 26 2012 @ 08:38 PM
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Originally posted by deadeyedick
reply to post by defcon5
 

I don't see that as a definite outcome but more near the worst case scenario.

Nope, its a definite.
Moodys has already threatened to downgrade the US's credit rating. This means that confidence in others ability to borrow money and be re-payed suffers. The US has a credit rating, just like you or I do. What happens if you let your credit rating drop? No one wants to lend you money because they cannot trust that you'll pay it back according to the agreed upon terms, your interest rates also climb through the roof.

Since the US dollar is the World Reserve Currency, this would quickly cause issues with other countries that hold large amounts of US dollars. We could very well lose our ability to be the world currency. Governments and people who have invested heavily in US bonds, would dump them, and refuse to buy any more.




posted on Sep, 26 2012 @ 08:42 PM
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reply to post by frazzle
 


Dear frazzle,

Are you in favor of competition (capitalism or against it, tariffs are anti capitalism, free market).



posted on Sep, 26 2012 @ 08:52 PM
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Originally posted by AQuestion
reply to post by frazzle
 


Dear frazzle,

Are you in favor of competition (capitalism or against it, tariffs are anti capitalism, free market).


Maybe tariffs are anti-free market the way free market is defined in the current lexicon but we haven't had anything resembling a true free market or true competition for decades, trade between countries/corporations is pre-determined by the world trade organization. What we DO have plenty of is crony capitalism, vulture capitalism and corporatism/fascism. How's that working out?



posted on Sep, 26 2012 @ 08:54 PM
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reply to post by deadeyedick
 




Oh it would be terrible if government employees had to join the real world.

It would be terrible if they had to join your version of it.
I can relate to your anger towards corruption in the government but more suffering isn't the answer.
Sadly converting to another system doesn't seem possible without suffering on a massive scale.
I believe we can fix the current system without resorting to such archaic and barbaric means.



A voluntary army would be enough protection.

Who would fund it?
Wouldn't you just be getting out the frying pan to sit in the fire?




A system of registering a vehicle is enough. We don't need all the extra unaccounted for taxes.


Agreed.
A change with the DOH is long overdue.



posted on Sep, 26 2012 @ 09:20 PM
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reply to post by thatonedude
 





Sadly converting to another system doesn't seem possible without suffering on a massive scale. I believe we can fix the current system without resorting to such archaic and barbaric means.

If you take a look around you will find suffering on a massive scale is here already.

Converting to another system is achievable. The current people in government and corporations can not be given a say in the change. by the people and for the people. A flat tax and elimination of all other taxes would work. The good news is that we already have an original document that is a great place to start.



posted on Sep, 26 2012 @ 09:27 PM
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Originally posted by defcon5

Originally posted by deadeyedick
reply to post by defcon5
 

I don't see that as a definite outcome but more near the worst case scenario.

Nope, its a definite.
Moodys has already threatened to downgrade the US's credit rating. This means that confidence in others ability to borrow money and be re-payed suffers. The US has a credit rating, just like you or I do. What happens if you let your credit rating drop? No one wants to lend you money because they cannot trust that you'll pay it back according to the agreed upon terms, your interest rates also climb through the roof.

Since the US dollar is the World Reserve Currency, this would quickly cause issues with other countries that hold large amounts of US dollars. We could very well lose our ability to be the world currency. Governments and people who have invested heavily in US bonds, would dump them, and refuse to buy any more.



Moodys and some bonds don't make plants not grow.
Everything you mention is just basically imaginary.
I think it's important to remember that our basic needs are food and water and the world has the means to supply these things without the stock market.

However i do understand your point.



posted on Sep, 26 2012 @ 09:28 PM
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reply to post by deadeyedick
 





A flat tax and elimination of all other taxes would work.

My biggest qualm with a flat tax is what happens to the people that don't or simply can't pay?
Who is going to pick up their slack?


edit on 26-9-2012 by thatonedude because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 26 2012 @ 09:52 PM
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reply to post by thatonedude
 


I'm thinking of flat tax being at the point of sale.



posted on Sep, 26 2012 @ 10:15 PM
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reply to post by deadeyedick
 

I understand.
It would be nice to see a flat sales tax eliminate the federal system but the suffering you spoke of earlier that's "all around" would find itself closer to you than you may like.
I know things are tough all over but I assure you they would get tougher through such a transition.
Whoever would be responsible for the change would have to answer for this.
Thus a new generation of hate arises and the cycle begins anew.

edit on 26-9-2012 by thatonedude because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 26 2012 @ 10:19 PM
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Originally posted by deadeyedick

Moodys and some bonds don't make plants not grow.
Everything you mention is just basically imaginary.

It causes debts to be called in.
Makes corporations insolvent.
Causes downsizing, and unemployment.
Devalues money.
Causes property/asset foreclosures.
Social services would break down over night.
No cops, jail guards, fire departments, government run utilities, mass transit, etc...

It would be utter chaos, the likes of which could only be compared to a worldwide disaster.
People cannot grow crops to survive overnight. Most people don't own land that is large enough to support growing a significant yearly food crop for their own survival. The majority of folks have no idea how to acquire food, if it doesn't involve using money.


Originally posted by deadeyedick
I think it's important to remember that our basic needs are food and water and the world has the means to supply these things without the stock market.

Actually most places have no infrastructure for any such thing. Again, even if they do, crops do not spring up overnight. Let me tell you, that as someone who went through the year of four hurricanes in FL, that most cities only have 48 hours worth of fuel, food, and other supplies once the transportation system ceases.



posted on Sep, 26 2012 @ 10:48 PM
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Nothing would happen....

In 1984 Ronald Reagan commisioned a study of the IRS/Federal Reserve the "Grace Commision Report" - the study found:


Monday, April 7, 2008
'1984: Grace Commission Report under Ronald Reagan showed IRS is a fraud that collects taxes for the Banking Dynasties'


"100% of what is collected is absorbed solely by interest on the Federal Debt ... all
individual income tax revenues are gone before one nickel is spent on the services
taxpayers expect from government."
-Grace Commission report submitted to President Ronald Reagan - January 15, 1984


& then Reagan was shot & that ended his interest in the Federal Reserve. Same deal with JFK.

Peace

circleof13.blogspot.com...
edit on 26-9-2012 by BABYBULL24 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 27 2012 @ 08:29 AM
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You guys do realize that federal income tax only pays off the debt that the powers that be have borrowed, right?? The roads and all that other local stuff does not come from those taxes. Property, gas and sales tax take care of these things. They are not planning on paying it back anyways otherwise they would not have taken so much for so long. Something is going to happen that they know about that will make it possible to NOT pay this debt back. So why pay for a debt we the people had nothing to do with. Its like saying that your neighbor borrowed $50,000 and since you live on the same street you have to pitch in to pay it off just because....



posted on Sep, 27 2012 @ 08:53 AM
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If that were to happen,all the welfare recipiants,and polotitions would have to get real jobs,black budgets wouldn't be funded and tree hugger laws would not be funded,that means the Feds wouldn't tell each state how to raise your children and what we should eat,sounds good to me,the south would riot as their govt handouts would stop,sounds good to me



posted on Sep, 27 2012 @ 09:06 AM
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Originally posted by defcon5
If we all stopped paying taxes, the US would default on its debt.
We would still have to pay it back, though possibly over a longer period at higher interest, but more importantly confidence in the US, the dollar, and our bonds would drop through the floor. It would throw the entire worlds economic system into a tailspin, and a depression like never seen before in history. We'd see mass unemployment, market crashes, protests, and very possibly wars break out over it. China, who holds massive amounts of our debt, would be exceptionally ticked off by this, and gawd only knows what they would do about it.


sad part is, you haven't said anything that isn't already happening or will soon, even with us paying taxes.

my personal prediction, with the current situation as it stands we will see the dollar loosing more value, inflation going very high and the already heavily burdened middle class paying much higher taxes, but there will be less paying in because there will be less working. we will see this happen but not so much by choice.



posted on Sep, 27 2012 @ 09:17 AM
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If any of you read the "ObamaCare" Bill after it was passed, there is a provision in there to punish all the people who claim 10 exemptions on their W-4's.

In 2014 if you claim 10 exemptions on your W-4, the IRS will fine you.

Everyone's going to be paying LOTS MORE Federal Taxes.



posted on Sep, 27 2012 @ 09:18 AM
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We don't pay taxes...

They are stolen from your paycheck before you get it so your not paying it they are taking it.



posted on Sep, 27 2012 @ 09:37 AM
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There will be no doomsday.

China will get over it. The mythical global depression would only go on so long as people kept pretending nation-states and currencies had any value or importance.

Complete "collapse" has happened before and civilization goes on.

Flip the switch. Let every single tax funded body/program die. The sun will still rise. Only it will rise on a free people who can move humanity forward.



posted on Sep, 27 2012 @ 09:54 AM
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reply to post by BABYBULL24
 


On the Grace Commission thing, Reagan also said something about high taxes and that it was time the people revolted. I remember hearing him say it, but can't find that quote online anywhere, so don't hold me to his exact words.

Here's one I could find:

Henry Bellmon
Senator (1969)

"In a recent conversation with an official at the Internal Revenue Service, I was amazed when he told me that 'If the taxpayers of this country ever discover that the IRS operates on 90% bluff the entire system will collapse.'"



posted on Sep, 27 2012 @ 10:15 AM
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Here's another:

Gary Makovski
Special IRS Agent

"If no information or return is filed, [the] Internal Revenue Service cannot assess you."
Testifying under oath in U.S. v. Lloyd

A ton of other applicable quotes here for anyone interested: www.truthusa.org...





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