Why is a one world order an inherantly bad idea?

reply to post by Hecate666

I noticed that those pro one world government believe very much that it will be based upon western democracy. Why?

I can only speak for myself. My view is that democracy with all its faults guarantees that minorities are given the same level of representation, it was something that the West took a while to enable for instance in regards to economic distinction, gender or race but once it became universal I see no special fault with the premise. The issue is that societies in general (not only democracies are flawed in their structure due mostly to the historic evolution based on the alliance of powers politico-economical powers, most all evolving from the Roman social setup and law).

There are millions of people who really so not want that structure. What is going to happen to them?

I have never seen anyone object to democracy. Most people object to the system where democracy is applied or the fairness and transparency of its application.

Will they be forced to conform and if so how?

This process is already running, todays globalization is the implementation of a one world order by economic means. When it drastically fails we have wars, if have been attentive to ATS you have read about central banks and the issues of fiat currency.

The beauty for me is that there are people, countries and governments with different structures. If one gets out of control [as seen in the middle east], other countries can intervene to a certain degree.

Yes diversity is a great thing but certain aspects of governance require normalization and global consensus, the more normalized it becomes less diversity will be possible. Diversity foster chaos and complexity something that reduces greatly the efficiency of any system (not only political).

I'm not particularly interested in diversity of government structures they are artificial creations, administrative constructs. Conforming only to one system seems the right choice. What should be preserved is diversity of opinion, culture and views and their expression.

What if there are no opposition to a central government? Where can you go to if you are suffering?

I defend the concept of a single party also (but that is a more complex issue, and does not invalidate democratic selection). In any case a central democratically selected government will always have opposition if the underlying system is fair and open. The courts and law should always be independent of the government (very bad things occur when it is not)

At the moment you can flee your country and seek refuge somewhere else. You won't be able to in a single government.

It depends on how it would end, a single government does not obligatorily terminate national boarders, consider the United States or the UK, both are structures that exist above smaller and to some degree independent substructures.

What if commercialism is going to be regulated and the same all over the world. Could a young entrepreneur still come up with a new idea, would he/she be allowed?

I do not see why not, I even see more possibilities since competition will be more equal (better use or termination of taxes, subsidies, etc)

Are all shops everywhere going to stock the same things? Would you miss any individual shops that sell local produce [clothes, furniture etc] or will you be alright if we all had only access to official merchandise?

Central planing permits a more efficient, even gains in management of resources/services/education/work, production and transportation. As for the offering that would be Dependant on many factors. Consider for example the end of some subsidies (fuel and production of goods), local produces would be able to compete more freely, and it would even benefit the environment.

Who will regulate business behaviour? For example I love the way the Japanese conduct their business whilst I do not like the way it is done in the west. Who will decide which one is best and what happens to those that disagree? I could go on like this forever.

I would expect some central rules would be put in place but hope some freedom would be given for local/regional structures. I do not fully fallow what you meant but for instance in the EU there was an adoption of a guarantee on items sold of 2 years.

Just to end it here, would you be alright if there were a muslim rule of the world with all its trimmings or a purely christian one?

None, religion has no place in governance. Having said that both religions have good moral guidances. I do like the restrictions of Islam on usury. I dislike the Wahhabi movement/alterations and in general any organized religion. I do respect believers and see value in faith and diversity in belief systems.

More words being put in my mouth...not once did I say how it should be...not once did I say how it would be, because I don't know.

Everyone has all the answers...everyone has amazing foresight and knows exactly how it'd be. I ain't telling people how it should be, I'm asking what they think it should be...I'm not the opposition and a true illuminati.

Shows the faith you lot really have in humanity...it will be inherantly bad, no human is incorruptable. But I'm the bad guy - all I see are people repeating the same old crap...everyone knows so damn much about how it would be.

Maybe those of you who claim to be awake should invest more faith in humanity, in yourselves...too many awake people but not many doing anything, just talk about how it's soooooo a bad idea. Anyone got any better ones? Let's have them.

We know what we don't want...so what do we want? It's fine as it is, right?

Don't put words in mymouth or tell me what I want, I never once stated who should be in control of a one world government, yet I've been told what I want by people who do't even know me. Programmed, brainwashed? It's exactly like I said to begin with, everyone knows what's best for us all, people don't want unity they want it their way - and that's the point.

reply to post by Soloro


Thankyou for actually paying attention tot he points I made, instead of scanning over it and reacting...telling me what I want and think and putting words in my mouth.

People are too quick to jump the bandwagon...so many people repeat what they read/hear and don't think for themselves...just react, and make lame attempts at predicting how bloody awful it would be.

You know what I hate most about this debate...the double standards. I'm now being set as the opposition, the enemy...enemy of who? All I did was ask some questions and make some points.

Enemy against who and what? I'm not trying to dictate or say how it should be...I'm asking why it's wrong, I don't want people repeating the stupid predictions they've learned over the years...I want people think about it and be honest.

Trying to set me up as some enemy...the illuminati, you think that puts you on the side of the greater good? The freedom of speech you believe you would be robbed of if a one world government did exist - yet I'm not even entitled to that, here, now...and apparently we're free...get real.

Just continue to regurgitate what you've read over the years, it sounds about right. It'd be a living hell, life is already pretty much a living hell for so many. We care about our own freedom because we're lucky enough to have some freedom, not everyone is as fortunate...bigger picture? Nonsense...everyone's on their own page, it's about the self, the here...the now and it's as simple as that. I'm alright, I get by - who cares if so many millions are starving, oppressed, etc...I'm not so it's cool.

Yeah, I'm the bad guy.

reply to post by zonetripper2065

Isolationism is what made America great we need to return to our roots.

No it was not. WWII was what made America a super power. Unless you are talking of a date before the Civil War, but that was another America...

reply to post by samerulesapply


I agree with you. The only problem with that is that the people in power need to be removed from power first before such a system can be used for good. It's not the system people mistrust. It's the fact that such a system in the wrong hands is destructive.

reply to post by skepticconwatcher


Yes...and those who claim to be awake should put their money where their mouths are. I'm glad someone understands me.

I just feel that people assume it to be such a bad idea because they're looking at it from the wrong perspective, it's all so negative. All the nay-sayers jump to the conclusions that what I want is our current leaders to assume full control of our planet...not once did I say that.

There actually are good people out there, people who want to change things for the better and have humanity's interests and future at heart...we need those people to rise up and be heard, and I think some of those very people need to realise they're fighting against something they could be part of.

Thanks.

Originally posted by reeferman
reply to post by samerulesapply

 

you should rethink your rethinking..

here is some food for thought..

Google Video Link

Google Video Link

I can see you feel it could be amazing..

but ..

realistically..

it would be a nightmare..

for instance..

your message would have

not even been seen by us..

if it did not fall into the approved

party line..

for instance..

just exactly who do you think should

be in charge?

as soon as you answer that..

even agreeing there should be a one world

government mind you..

you have placed yourself as the opposition.

edit on 27-9-2012 by reeferman because: (no reason given)

You're right, I'd forgotten how the BBC, back in the 70's...predicted how terrible it would be. Your entire argument is based on assumptions. I'm not saying it couldn't be like that...it could be like that if I, like you...assume that whoever was in control of such a world was evil. Because all people are evil, right?

No...they're not, otherwise we might aswell give up hope and carry on as normal. To me it's becoming more clear...people are not awake - they think they are, they think after reading some stuff and watching some 30 year old documentary that they know it all.

People who come to ATS pride themselves on the fact that they look at things differently, seek truth, are objective...yet so many blindly accept these projections of a future reality as gospel without questioning it at all.

Why are the people who think they're awake allowing themselves to be programmed by youtube videos, it isn't the concept of a one world government that's evil or wrong...it's the fact that the one world government is always portrayed as oppressive and evil. I believe in good people...I believe that there are people out there who we could trust, and they could lead us into a better world...that not everyone is corruptable. But I believe these people are being deceived...they're being bombarded with this propaganda that's telling them it's inherantly wrong and cannot work.

Maybe it's something people need to actually think about and discuss...let's talk about how it COULD work instead of poo-poo'ing it.

Don't assume I want a bad, terrible...evil government to rule the world. I'm asking, simply - could it work? Or do you assume all people are corrupt, and evil?

By the way, sorry about the sporadic nature of my responses, II only got home about an hour ago and have been going over this thread. I'm sorry if I was rude to anyone last night. When I said I was bailing on this thread it wasn't because I thought people were unworthy to discuss this with me, not at all, and apologise if it came across that way...sounds kinda arrogant. I just kinda felt that some of the points I was making and questions I was asking were being ignored. I kinda regret making this thread, or at least how I worded my OP.

My beliefs and opinions aren't set in stone, we're all here to learn, and understand. And I've learned a lot here on ATS. Despite my current mindset and way of viewing thsi whole issue...I ain't a bad or evil person...it's kinda shocking that in a supposed free world it's so easy to be labelled a monster almost by simply making a statement or asking a few questions.

A famous British Prime Minister once said "We have reached the point in the journey where there can be no pause. We must go on. It must be world anarchy or world order.".

I doubt this is what he had in mind, but to me, it fits the picture. It's kind of like Star Trek, one world, getting along for the betterment of mankind.

Do we carry on our separate ways in anarchy, or come together as one with world order.....

reply to post by samerulesapply


I am in three threads right now that are all different, but tie in to one another very well. Mine, which observes the crappy state of the world and wonders how to deal with the emotions of hopelessness, mostly based off the observation that the current PTB are creating this New World Order all of us "fortune tellers" are describing. Yours, which wonders why it can't be good and what to do about it, and a third, which observes that we are all one.

I have been struggling with the same question of how to change it. The overlapping content in these three threads has given me the answer I seek. I do not know if the answer will be the same for you.

Change really does begin with the individual. The more who answer this highest call for change will all know exactly what they need to improve in their own lives to make the greater community and world a better place. The answers are everywhere. Shop locally. Learn how to grow your own food. Recycle and reuse. Swith to a credit union. Don't support the businesses that don't have your health or best interests in mind. Eat organic. Educate yourself and your children. Love your neighbors. Turn off the TV. Don't read the MSM. If you still have faith in the sham that is the US electoral process, then vote for the good guy (or gal), even if s/he is third party. I could go on and on. Point is, break out of the mold that you were put in, refuse to be the slave, work toward a healthier future for our planet one commercial decision at a time.

And while I'm reluctant to jump onboard with the hard-line what-you-think-is-what-you-experience folks, there is definitely some degree of truth to it. What you project outward, you bring inward. This article is worth consideration, and so is the rest of the site. Knowledgeoftoday.org WAKE UP! We are All ONE - Change YOURSELF to Change the WORLD

Only once we all do this, can we come together as one.

It would be horrible. Concepts like freedom and individuality and privacy would no longer be able to thrive, not that they are at the moment either. I enjoy my free will and the ability to make my choices for myself and my family!!!! Under a nwo, one world government, it would be nearly impossible.

The inabilities of the UN should show us what a bad idea that is. A UN representative recently came to Alaska to visit the villages to observe living conditions. He determined that they are isolated and humiliated. So does that mean, by UN standards that all of those villagers who live in remote Alaska on a subsistence lifestyle should move to a city, because of someone elses opinion? I personally enjoy the people that I met in Kotzebue, more than I have enjoyed any bureaucrat that I have ever met. I don't think that anyone should be forced to give up the lifestyle of their choice, as long as they do no harm!!

We are unique in our cultures and languages and our personal beliefs. Without that diversity, humanity can only suffer.

reply to post by azamber


I like this response, I think it's time I joined a credit union.

What do you rhink would happen if everyone did? I wonder how bad it'd get for us, how hard they'd squeeze us in their final death throes and could be endure it? It's a serious question, I don't imagine those pulling the strings would go down without a fight.

Thanks for the response though, very thought provoking. Be most obliged if you linked me to those other threads if you don't mind, be nice to have a look.

Thanks.

reply to post by samerulesapply


Thank you!

Here is my thread: It just seems so hopeless...

Here is the other thread: WOW, Now I understand it all! Why I am a "observer" and "observing" myself - there is only ME!

My answer to your question, what would they do, is one of the great fears in my thread. I am preparing myself to learn how to live without modern conveniences, grouping together with like minded individuals, learning how to make my own products, focusing on the positive that can come out of it all, hoping the elite back down somehow, or some of them have some humanity and compassion and keep things from getting too bad. There really is nothing else we can do, I am afraid.

Originally posted by samerulesapply
Why is a one world order an inherantly bad idea?

Consolidation of world power will mean immediately if not eventually no system of checks and balances on that power, and absolute tyranny run riot.

Human beings are hierarchical, meaning we will always have at least some of us that fight to be on top of the pecking order. Several governments helps to keep a ceiling on how much power taken by any one or small number of entities. If someone were to achieve one world order, even if their intentions were good in the beginning corruption would begin very quickly. It would be inevitable. It is human nature. We will push the envelope of the control that we have over our environment (which is dominated by our control of other human beings). If there are no sanctions, controls or pressures to curb that those in power will abuse those below them more and more as time goes on.

reply to post by azamber


Much appreciated, I think you're spot on. There are so many bad people out there but I've faith in humanity. This is a realistic alternative...we're stuck in some rut, I think we're progressing quite fast in some ways (technology) and not in others.

I think it's kinda obvious things need to change, you offer an alternative and some food for thought. I'm off to have a look at these threads, thanks.

reply to post by samerulesapply


Thank you again! I am happy to give you some food for thought after having been given so much myself these last few days. Enjoy your journey, and I look forward to hearing your follow-up thoughts, if any.

reply to post by azamber


Really enjoyed your first thread, definitely struck a chord with me so a well deserved star and flag.

I don't vote, either. It's not so much a stigma here in the UK, you get the odd individual who protests but it's less common than in the US. Nothng much ever changes after an election, regardless of who wins. Systems, rules etc may change but our quality of life never really improves or it simply gets worse. I know lot's of people who don't vote, In fact to be honest, it seems voting in the UK isn't valued at all by a lot of people, the elections aren't as big a deal as I remember them being when I was a boy.

I remember when Tony Blair led the labour party to victory, it was all over the news, even the build up to it was really hyped and people were genuinely interested...they thought it'd change because he seemed so enthusiastic, young, dynamic - people trusted him. It's not like that at all now, most don't care. The US elections are grandiose by comparison, People in the UK seem to be more interested in the battle for the US presidency than the UK elections.

I can't imagine losing friends over exercising my right not to vote, the most you'll get here is a stern lecture or perhaps an insult. But mostly you'll get that line which you quoted in your thread - "you've no right to complain!".

Seems you started down the path I'm on a bit before me, I've thought about how I'd fare if it all went down...to survive without the modern conveniences I've become accustomed to. In some ways it scares the etcetera out of me, and in some other ways it's sort of appealing.

I need to have something to eat and a little break from it all I think, some light-hearted comedy and a snack is in order. I'll read your other thread later.

Much obliged.

reply to post by SLAYER69


Fear of humanity is the only thing keeping humanity from becoming extinct.


Lets face it. With six billion people on the planet, you'd have to figure out how all of them think and then kill off the one half who disagrees with the other half.

The consensus would last for one half of a generation.

of course its a bad idea.

at the moment..if an economy goes bust...or if your beinf persecuted by a particular government, you can move elsewhere....

under a single government....if something goes wrong...the there is nowhere to go to....could be devastating.
imagine africa being told, no more sugar, europe needs it all....

too much can go wrong...its idealistic

peace

reply to post by samerulesapply


Thank you again, and star and flag for you as well. This is a very important question all on this path must ask themselves, and I am sorry to see that you got such a negative response for just putting it out there as a thought experiment. You clearly stated you were just contemplating and searching for answers.

I think it's important that we all remember to keep an open mind during this difficult, divisive time. We ARE all connected, in one way or another, and this fact is irrefutable. The more we start to embrace each other for our differences, recognizing we are each on a very similar path, the more we can start to change this place for the better.

Be the change you want to see in the world.