Buddhist statue taken by Nazis came from space rock

thats not a nazi symbol it symbolises something else

Originally posted by wrdwzrd

The swastika is an ancient Indian symbol used for good luck. The Nazi's stole the imagery and reversed it, the intention being it would do the opposite.

en.wikipedia.org...

I also see it all over Japan and East Asia.

The Buddhist sign has been standardized as a Chinese character 卍 (pinyin: wàn) and as such entered various other East Asian languages such as Japanese where the symbol is called 卍字 (manji).

On stylistic grounds that is nothing like what it is claimed to be, early Tibetan sculpture, and given the meteorite it is reportadly from was only discovered in 1913, the piece was probably created in Germany during the 1930's with regards to the interest and speculation of the period.


Another famous example of the creation of pseudo-historical artifacts was that of the Celtic cauldron...


www.spiegel.de...

Originally posted by BigBrotherDarkness
The swastika in Buddhism represents the "mind seal" of enlightenment...not a good luck charm. Tibet's first religion was the Bon religion this is where to dig if you want to know more of what Hilters men were after, Tibetan Buddhism is a mixture of Bon and Buddhism. Aryan is mistaken to mean master race etc. when it actually means "the noble ones" in Pali they are referred to as Arhats, basically fully enlightened beings; not a particular race. At least that is what one finds digging through historical research and cross referencing root terms of Hindu, Pali, and Tibetan further than what old language interpretations did, to see what they were meaning clearly.

I have studied all forms of Buddhism for 22 years as well as the 5 languages it is typically presented in to get better a better understanding of the concepts presented by the Buddha, I haven't bothered to dig into the Bon religious mythos but this thread has peaked my interest to do that; for the sake of seeing what the SS were after...is Aryan a bad interpretation of Arhats I think so, were the Arhats just enlightened beings or a race derived from much earlier beliefs that were thought to enlightened and the enlightened disciples of the Historical Buddha called the same?

The historical Buddha Guatama was not the first to incarnate on this "world system" or planet, according to the Pali Cannon, there have been 27 before the historical Buddha everyone knows; the large laughing Buddha is actually a Chinese monk, that is supposed to reincarnate as the future Buddha Maitreya. It is typically stated that when peoples average age reaches 100 years old a Buddha appears in the world to guide and teach.

For those that don't know, the Buddha is NOT a god, Buddha just means "awake" there is no worship of gods, they are beings on the wheel of life and death just like every other being. The statues of Buddha are not idols to be worshiped, they are bowed to out of respect for the teaching not blind belief or treatment as a god. There is however a branch called pure land; that is like other religions; they treat Buddha as a Jesus, or Muhammad and choose to worship instead of walk the Buddhas path. The gods depicted in Buddhist iconography, are typically depictions of aspects within oneself, they are used to teach in much the same way proverbs is meant too, as an allegory.

I will do some research into Bon and try and find out what Hitlers men were really after, and come back when I have a complete picture of the Bon mythos and how it relates and post it if anyone is interested.

Excellent information!

I'm very much looking forward to your update on Bon.

reply to post by Xoanon

I agree.

This is an unusual statue. I think it might be a statue of a Lama posing as a meditation deity and I'm pretty sure that it is Ratnasambhava not Vaishravana. The mudra and the gem are characteristic of Ratnasambhava.

en.wikipedia.org...

You are right about Bon too. Bon was shamanism's answer to Buddhism. Sort of like Pepsi's answer to Coke. Although, I should add that I don't know if pre-Buddhist shamanism in Tibet was also called Bon.

I'm really out of my very shallow depth on Bon.

en.wikipedia.org...

Originally posted by victor7
Even now some German women travel to Tibet and get impregnated by those whom they think are real Aryans. Such crap and senseless persistence with logic of a devilish evil man is outright lunacy.

Uhm... No? I mean, really, how should I know about every woman traveling to Tibet and her whereabouts. But seriously, this is not common practice or even anything I have ever heard about here.

I say this is anti-german propaganda.

reply to post by ManFromEurope

I agree. It's like saying that some American women go to Jamaica to get laid, or that women out of town use the opportunity to get laid. Like that's news?

I wouldn't put it past some German chick to get laid by a Tibetan, or chicks of all nationalities for that matter, but there is no way that there is some kind of serious race related reason for this. Chicks are nutz, from time to time. Everybody knows that.

reply to post by Kantzveldt

You might be on to something with the notion of a forgery.

Assuming a date of 1000 AD, as per the article, one would have to think in terms of Afghanistan or India for the origin of the statue, since it has western, not Asian facial features. Long narrow nose, full beard.

It is also mixed up as regards iconography. Mudra and gem of Ratnasambhava but wearing armor. No crown, but lama hat.

Very unusual if genuine.

reply to post by ipsedixit



Yes i considered Greco-Buddhist, but again, quality and style wise nothing like. The features as you say are so determinably Western, and that and the general impression of the piece would make me date it 1930's Germany, based on a figurine similar to this (except that is female vajrayoginighau)







Also worth noting that whilst the figurine adopts the above general pose for a seated figure in repose, the pose itself more properly indicated dynamic movement and not seated, thus the overall interpretation is wrong.

The Vajrayogini you posted would fool me, except that I have never seen the right hand gesture so. Otherwise it looks very genuine. On second look I ask myself, "Where are the bone ornaments, crown of skulls and trident?"

The "Ratnasambhava/Lama" statue, though is really a "dog's breakfast of everything". And that in itself is not the Buddhist way.

Originally posted by Svipdagr
reply to post by fedeykin

 

Nope. That's not why they included the swastika. Yes there are are links to the swastika from Germanic, illyrian history. But this isn't the reason why the nazi's included it. It was a symbol from india. In Hitler's quest to find aryan history, he believed the original aryans came from somewhere in india. Thus using this symbol to show the purity of them.

The use of the swastika was incorporated by Nazi theorists with their conjecture of Aryan cultural descent of the German people. Following the Nordicist version of the Aryan invasion theory, the Nazis claimed that the early Aryans of India, from whose Vedic tradition the swastika sprang, were the prototypical white invaders. The concept of racial purity was an ideology central to Nazism, though it is now considered unscientific

from wiki

eitherway, rather stupid. he destroyed a great symbol. now its thought by so many in the world as a symbol of hate. imagine wearing a shirt with a swastika in any western country, you'd have people trying to kick your butt in no time. only good thing is that it still has its meaning in southern and eastern asia. at least from the countries i've visited

edit on 27-9-2012 by Svipdagr because: (no reason given)

As opposed to trusting wikipedia you should go straight to the source. Hitler wrote in his book "Mein Kamp" exactly how they came up with the symbols they used and why they used them. One of the main points for using the swastika was the recognizability of the symbol, which was a commonly used symbol, around the world and especially in northern europe.

reply to post by ipsedixit



The vajrayoginighau is genuine, what i am saying is they have based the German figurine on such a figure but misinterpreted the leg positionings for a seated figure, whereas that pose indicates dynamism, dancing, they have translated it into sitting.

A seated figure in repose should of course be cross legged for Buddhist tradition.

I think this is an unfinished statue, possibly a discard that didn't come out well when it was poured.

The base looks rough and there has been no "chasing" to remove rough spots. I'm pretty convinced now that it is a forgery, because a discard with that sort of metal in it would have been recast and then finished properly in 1000 AD.

Originally posted by Kantzveldt
reply to post by ipsedixit

 

A seated figure in repose should of course be cross legged for Buddhist tradition.

Not always. Green Tara is "semi-seated". There are numerous Buddhist statues posed that way. Maitreya is another seated figure although both legs are down as we do on chairs in the West.

People mistook this statue for Vaishravana who also wears armor and is semi-seated and bearded.

reply to post by ipsedixit


asianaffairs.in...

I knew I read it somewhere years before and here it is, although my reading was some sort of newspaper article I think.

The German women visiting Ladakh interacted with male members of the Brokpa tribe who are said to be pure-blooded Aryans, or descendants of Alexander the Great, or both. Did you interview any of them? SS: Yes, I tracked down a young 22-year-old Aryan guy who told me exclusively on camera how he is the father of two German kids, and they've been promising to bring the children to Ladakh, but it's never happened. They keep sending money and gifts and one of the mothers — because he's been doing it with many of them — she was supposed to come for some festival. He got a letter and showed it to me. We were waiting and waiting, but she never came.

reply to post by victor7

I take your point. This has got to be a fringe interest though, but hey, there are cultists of all kinds almost everywhere. Thanks for the info.

reply to post by ipsedixit



The seated formal Maitreya is based in Greco-Buddhist iconography, and thus indeed an enthroned figure in the Western fashion.


Vaishravana does show a similar seated pose as you note, but this is generally in conjunction with riding a lion side saddle...

I thought the circular parts were possibly planetary representations.

The small one around his head, the moon, the larger damaged one, the SUN? Seeing as the piece was carved from a Meteor.

The small circular piece behind his head also reminds me of images of Christ with this often shown behind his head.

reply to post by lacrimaererum


The nazi - monk connection is quite strong.

Here is an interesting thread putting the facts together

The Nazi Tibet connection

Originally posted by lacrimaererum


What more could you ask for?

A buddhist statue stolen from Tibet by the Nazis and originally carved from a rare meteorite.

It seems the Nazi's like hunting cosmic trophies around the world.
Also notice the swastika on the statue.

A large swastika in the centre of the 24 centimetre-tall figure may have enticed the German expedition leaders, who were supported by Nazi SS chief Heinrich Himmler. Swastikas decorate many Buddhist and Hindu statues. The ancient symbol was adopted by the Nazis, who modified it into a mirror-image form. Himmler believed the origins of the Aryan race could be found in Tibet.

www.independent.ie...

www.afp.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

There is an Nicholas Cage movie script in there.