Israel /= Jew

Originally posted by SrWingCommander
Conversely, if you support Israel can we say that doesn't automatically mean your an, "imperialistic zionist"???

Although, I am pretty sure 90% of the people on thsi site have a skewed at best understanding of the term "zionist".

If you support the state of Israel, then you are a Zionist. That's the definition. And since Israel has a policy which is essentially imperialism on a fairly small scale, if you support Israel, then you support imperial Zionism. After all, Israel has been occupying Palestinian land and oppressing the Palestinians for 45 years, with no sign of ending it. Supporting Israel thereby means supporting this policy, because the Jewish state homeland is being created at the expense of another people.

Originally posted by MrDesolate
reply to post by sheepslayer247

 

I think anyone who puts forth the argument that anti Israel doesn't equal anti Jew is looking for an excuse to be anti Jew without being called antisemitic...

No, not true, not true at all. I'm fine with Jews, I am not fine whatsoever with Israel. You trying to claim that this can't be the case and that I am anti-semitic is the hight of arrogance and bigotry on your part. And is the main rhetorical ruse in the Zionist play book.

Furthermore, I'm offended by the arrogance of Jews taking the term anti-Semitic to mean anti-Jewish. Semitic is a linguistic term denoting a subfamily of languages, including Hebrew, Arabic and Ethiopian, and the affiliated peoples. As English is essentially a Germanic language, it would be like saying that anyone who didn't like the British is anti-Germanic. I acknowledge that anti-Semitism has taken on this meaning, but it is a very Judeo-centric term, which attempts to take away its more universal meaning that applies to a much larger group of people than just the Jews. It's a very Orwellian change in the meaning of the term, and clearly done for a reason, i.e. to disenfranchise the other people whom the term also applies to.

Originally posted by SLAYER69

Originally posted by sheepslayer247

Edit to add: If someone disagrees with Iran, they are not automatically called anti-Muslim....are they?

Islamaphobe

And yes, many who are critical of Iran are often called that or Warmonger simply because we openly discuss Iran's dirty laundry just like those who talk about Israels and the US's dirty laundry.

Generally, the people criticizing Iran are criticizing its form of government, an Islamic theocratic republic, and also specifically speak badly of Islam as a religion and speak of Islamofascists. Also these anti-Iran discussions are centered around people calling for the attacking of Iran by the US and/or Israel; this is warmongering. So yes, if you are calling for war and putting down Islam, then you can legitimately be called an anti-Islamic warmonger.

Originally posted by MrInquisitive

Originally posted by sheepslayer247
reply to post by The Old American

 

I believe it's Himmler.

You're not serious are you? Purdee sure it's der Führer, i.e. Hitler.

This is in regards to the OP Avatar.

He was asked who was in the background Nodding his head.

We know its Hitler strumming like Peter Townsend,

Originally posted by DaesDaemar
reply to post by dontreally

 

I think you'll find that slavic peoples have been opressed/enslaved just as long as jewish. Only difference is they don't have a unifying factor and constantly talk about it.

If you continually talk about being the victim, you always will be one. It's time to move forward.

Right on -- except the part about continuing to be a victims. Zionists use their past victimhood as an excuse for all the crimes Israel commits, including ethnic cleansing and war crimes, as well as violating international controls and developing nuclear weapons. The world is supposed to give Israel special dispensation because of what has happened to Jews in the past. Never mind that human history is rife with instances of one group committing atrocities against another. It just seems that the Jews do a better job than most other peoples of keeping track of the affronts to their race and culture.

Originally posted by Kang69
reply to post by dontreally

 

This is great. Why hold yourself on a high horse?

Do you not know of the concentration camp around 1.5 million people in Gaza? Where these innocent people in Gaza can't even get clean water. They live off emergency rations. And on top of that Israel performs genocide in Gaza.

Israel is not only performing genocide in the middle east. One incident was in the west actually. 9/11. Complete MOSSAD operation from the get go.

How many other false flags have they done?

Look up USS Liberty and Project Lavon. ( All have been proven and documented)


It's always hilarious how people always hold them selves so high and praise them selves as intellectuals, when they don't even know basic history. USS liberty, Project Lavon and the Genocide in Gaza are all real and documented.

Emergency rations and no clean water? I call BS... I think your info is a bit out of date, or you just believe what many other people have incorrectly been tossing around for quite some time. Hardly the concentration camp people want you to think it is in the name of vilifying Israel...

link0

link1

link2

www.viciousbabushka.com...

I guess your definition of genocide and mine are quite different - but let's ask Mr. Webster:

Definition of GENOCIDE : the deliberate and systematic destruction of a racial, political, or cultural group

There is no genocide in Gaza - If Israel wanted to destroy the Palestinians they have the means to VERY easily do it. Nuclear or otherwise, it wouldn't take too long if that was their goal...
I'm sure many people have images in their head of Israeli soldiers marching through Gaza gunning down anything that moves - this is simply not the case. The last time Israel was inside Gaza was a few years ago in direct response to THOUSANDS of rocket attacks over the course of a few weeks. Does Israel retaliate against rocket attacks from Gaza? Absolutely! And this American thanks them for helping to keep me safe while I'm living here...

If Israel was committing genocide as you claim, then they really suck at it - the growth rate in Gaza is 3.422% per year, about double the Israeli Jewish growth rate...

The growth rate of the Arab population in Israel is 2.6%, while the growth rate of the Jewish population in Israel is 1.7%. The growth rate of both the Jewish and Arab population has slowed from 3.8% in 1999 to 2.6% in 2008 for Arab and 2.7% to 1.7% for the Jewish population. The fastest growing segment of population are Arab Muslims with the latest growth rate of 2.8% for 2008.

Both stats taken from Wikipedia

If you want someone to blame, then blame Hamas - they are the reason for much of the current situation in Gaza. Recently they decided to block almost all Israeli produce imports into Gaza.

And lets not forget that Egypt controls the southern border of Gaza - why are they not vilified for enforcing this "concentration camp" - why do you think they don't just open their border? Maybe they don't want any (more) terrorists running around their country...

Palestinians are treated like second class citizens by all their Arab brothers in the region - they are a tool of the Arab world to try and make Israel look bad. Even when they manage to get to one of the neighboring Arab countries, they are still treated badly - denied passports, and more.

There is no mass starvation in Gaza, Palestinians are not being massacred in Gaza. People need to stop spreading these lies, do your own research instead of believing every piece of propaganda put out there and repeated by the msm. Or better yet, come live in the region - I bet your point of view might change just a little when you see the rockets from Gaza coming toward you...

Don't take this as blanket support for Israel, they do some things that i don't agree with. But overall, I think they are doing the best they can given the current situation...

I think the best and most politically correct way to identify the particular "Jews" people wish to refer to is -

"political Zionists"

Jews against Zionism

rense.com...

whatreallyhappened.com...

www.jewsagainstzionism.com...

www.jewsnotzionists.org...

en.wikipedia.org...(book)

en.wikipedia.org...

islamicmyths.wordpress.com...

A democracy?
Some day someone will have to explain the Torahs influence in Israeli law.
prospect.org...
www.haaretz.com...

Originally posted by MrInquisitive

Originally posted by sheepslayer247
reply to post by The Old American

 

I believe it's Himmler.

You're not serious are you? Purdee sure it's der Führer, i.e. Hitler.

The guy in the background of my avatar is Himmler, I think.

Speak with your heart and an arrow might hit your only weakness.

You know what does not have a weakness? Facts. So many people are speaking with their hearts, it hurts. You keep taking words you like and twisting them because that is the only thing you know. Attack logic and facts with logic and other facts. Not your stupid "U hate teh jewz cuz you are saying Isreal kills people, you nazi!!" "OMG all muzlims are evil because I saw it on FOX!" guess who is the idiot acting on baseless emotions? You are, sir. You, the one who kept saying "this guy knows nothing! I must fight him with my keyboard" while reading my post because it was spot on for the most part. Shut up, calm down, use facts and give me a link about your so called facts. That is all.

Just something I wanted to say, love the avy, OP

Originally posted by MrInquisitive

Originally posted by SrWingCommander
Conversely, if you support Israel can we say that doesn't automatically mean your an, "imperialistic zionist"???

Although, I am pretty sure 90% of the people on thsi site have a skewed at best understanding of the term "zionist".

If you support the state of Israel, then you are a Zionist. That's the definition. And since Israel has a policy which is essentially imperialism on a fairly small scale, if you support Israel, then you support imperial Zionism. After all, Israel has been occupying Palestinian land and oppressing the Palestinians for 45 years, with no sign of ending it. Supporting Israel thereby means supporting this policy, because the Jewish state homeland is being created at the expense of another people.

Well that's probably the closest definition I have seen on here....sort of. Other then the fact that there are lots of people that beleive Israel has a right to exist, but not nessecarily follow some of their policies in the "occupied" territories, or being in certain territories. That's still technically a "zionist" (one who beleives the Jewish people should live in a Jewish state in the historical jewish homeland). That doesn't make one and "evil empirialist". And I see "zionist" thrown around here towards people in issues that have NOTHING to do with Israel. It's really quite funny, denying ignorance and all. So, I'll give you credit for being close. I guess by the definition that I think the Jews have a right to live in their historical homeland I am a "zionist"....Even though I belong to no specific organization, am not an Israeli, hold no card, go to no meetings, am not a Jew, and personally don't really know any Jews (well I guess a few, mostly secular, and/or I don't ever give it much thought).

Your assuming that the "Palestinian Issue" is an Israeli only issue. People forget (or don't know, or were propagandized out of it) in the days leading up too, and after Israel was founded in 1948 the Arab countries, especially Jordan and Saudi Arabia were pushing people into the region to create this problem. The Israeli's gave these people the option to become citizens, or if not to return home. Of course then the Arab states refused to allow them back in to their home country.

The Arab states created the "Palestinian Problem" to be a thorn in Israel's side, during her creation. I do not think the Israeli's have handled everything in regards to the issues with the "Palestinians" or the occupied territories, but frankly, I view it as, "it is what it is". Especially when 4 wars (not to mention all the terror attacks) have been staged from in or near the current occupied territories. I don't blame Israel for occupying them. The Arabs started the 4 wars (well the IDF preempted one prior to the Arab offensive kicking off). Sometimes when you start a war, you lose territory, especially if it was used as the "jumping off point" for the war. But they probably should be DMZs and not set up for settlement.

You trying to claim that this can't be the case and that I am anti-semitic is the hight of arrogance and bigotry on your part. And is the main rhetorical ruse in the Zionist play book.

This is absolute nonsense. People can tell the difference between real criticism and bigotry disguised as criticism. Bigots always use this as a rallying cry to paint themselves as a victim and use it as a tactic to shut down dissent.

Racists and bigots never see themselves as racists and bigots. They always portray themselves as victims in any way they can so they can continue to spew out their crap and their lies about Israel.

Israel never started this conflict. The racists did. The people who call themselves Palestinians did, as well as their supporters, and there weren't no Palestinians until after the six day war, which was not started by Israel.

These are people who just don't want Israel to exist in any capacity, and want to put their own state on its ashes, and will use any dirty trick they can to take Israel down.

The methods Israel uses are in place because the racists started suicide bombing everything they could in order to tear Israel apart. That's how Israel took its land, through war that other people started.

Everything else is just propaganda and lies. To which the racists do what they can to portray any and all real facts and information in support of Israel in any way shape or form as arrogance and Zionist propaganda and will not listen to any other side but their own so they can silence Israel.

But I'm sure this marks me as a Zionist because I can see through all that crap. Any intelligent person can see through the lies and crap tactics the real racists use to shut anybody else down who disagrees with them and sees them for the monsters they really are.


Mark my words, if Israel actually relented and returned to the 1967 borders, the violence against Israel and Jews around the globe would not end. Because this is not about hatred of Zionists. It's about hatred of Jews, pure and simple.

'Beware those who say they are Jews but are not'. The bible warned us quite literally.

William G Carr was making this distinction back in the 1950's, the Zionists due not represent the Jewish faith, the call of 'anti semitism' is nothing more than a political defense mechanism. Jews are being used as pawns by the Zionists and the Zionists are pawns to an even greater power.

reply to post by WhiteHat


I starred that post - because so much of what you said is spot on

But - it really doesn't address what the OP is trying to say

We have to be able to have these discussions - and Israel's government doesn't represent all of the citizens of Israel any more than my government can fully represent me - my government doesn't always behave in a way that makes me proud

And yet as an American I am still fair game for anyone that wants to criticize America

I guarantee you there are plenty of citizens in Israel - non-Jews but a very large percentage of Jews - that don't fully support their government (if at all)

Any more than the citizens of China are really in love with their government - or Argentina - or Canada...

Israel often behaves in a way that makes me sick to my stomach. But so does my own country

Israel is also surrounded on all side by enemies in a way that most other nations aren't - and they have a unique history. It's complicated - all of history is complicated. This world is not an even-steven world

Anti-Semitism isn't going away - but the fact that it exists shouldn't shut down discussion

In fact - just the opposite

I think it's up to members to call it out as they see it - wherever they see it

Even if they're wrong - they're right - the back and forth is what's important

This is what free speech is all about - it maintains balance and objectivity. It also holds the individual accountable for their point of view

The thing is - these threads need to be a genuine back and forth, give and take conversation. When people just show up to dump their propaganda and run - then that is exactly what it looks like

None of us should tolerate that - not even a little bit

once again, this has to do with programming. own your program and all of this goes away. well, it doesn't, in that everyone else still operates that way--haha. read up on hefficide's posts on manipulation & programming. or my rants for that matter. the bio computer has been hijacked with emotional wirings that have been put in place by your surroundings from day 1. all of this is labels and judgments tied to emotional wirings that cause electro-chemical reactions resulting in some action, behavior or need to talk.

when ego (which is a word to describe the electro-chemical emotional wirings, read: programs, operating system, is threatened by inputs that don't conform to the program, instructions are sent to get the machine riled up or ready for some response.

understand that awareness/observer can reclaim control and actually use the ego component as the wonderful tool it is. but it's not the captain of the ship.

all this is bullsh*t (see?--emotional connections to 8 simple letters that can blind the operator to new information due to the emotional wiring that only sees the offensive word), polarity in politics, divisive rhetoric on all subjects with disagreeing viewpoints, and any label/judgment wiring that pits one vs. other.

now instead of jew vs. anti-semite, we come to learn over decades, that while the two camps may still be large, most are starting to dissect the words. as more understand and do not want the label, anti-semite to apply to themselves, they want more clarity. and on the side of "jew" the wiring is so deep due to the horrific events during wwii, that anything that remotely comes close to touching the subject results in chants of anti-semite. it's the polarity of all issues that is at hand. we can dissect now to allow for jew not equal to isreal.

the logical path of this dissecting is truth. that ultimately the word "jew" is not equal to anything. like every other word. it's language to describe and communicate, but also to program intentional (and not) wirings.

what does "christian" mean today? ask any number of the denominations. ask a catholic. ask a baptist. hell, ask a muslim what the word "chriistian" means to them.

i got rid of all labels and judgment awhile ago and it allows the operator to see these issues crystal clear. we spend so much time (that is only a tool of the mind) in drama and debate, allowing the chatter mind to experience emotional wirings to their very limits--including the ultimate ego hijack (or maybe enlightened checking out?), suicide. the mind, given the chance will kill the host in order to flesh out the wirings.

but the observer/experiencer can create just enough space between thought & response through practice that it learns to use the machine in pure awareness & understanding of presence. so much power there. but it involves questioning everything you've ever learned--haha. what is my own flat-earth theory? what do i believe that even if given proof to the contrary, i would still hold on to. wow. sort of blows the door open on the mind. and once it's that far open, there's no going back.

this duality tennis match everyone likes to play will continue. but it is like the game spoons. as players realize someone has the cards and spoons are being taken, only those who are not aware that the game is over will continue to play. same with this learning about the human programming. when one understands more and better gears to use on the machine, there is no going back. flame away on any of this. experience trumps naysayers. i just share to give anyone interested a step off shoulders that took over 4 decades to learn. hopefully someone tuned in to this will get in 20 what took me double that to learn.

namaste. to me, there is no jew, no isreal, no anti-semite. these are only programs that are very useful in playing around in the drama game. too bad those programs result in so much death and destruction.

reply to post by dontreally


OK dude, I tried. Other than your passion about this subject and random examples with no context, I am not sure where you are going with this.

I have to be calm though because I sense I am being played. I am trying to be persuaded to embrace a tempest of emotion which disguises a vacancy of reason. I really do not appreciate that when I have done little other than ask some simple questions and made some self evident observations.

I met you (and others on here from what it sounds like) half way to see what you honestly have to say regarding the facts. Instead, I get stones thrown at me because I simply observed up is not down and will not acquiesce to nonsense directing me to disregard it.

Look for those more feeble minded and continue the discussion as you see fit.

Originally posted by manna2

Originally posted by SLAYER69
reply to post by sheepslayer247

 

Yes, but some members openly admit to being anti-Semitic and dont care who knows it.
Six of one half dozen of another,

this is a red herring.
before ww2 90% of the "jewish" inhabitants of this land were semite, or sephardim.
After the war and what we have today is 95% that call themselves "jewish" are ashkenazim and are of Eastern Euopean descent and caucasion heralding from the caucusus mtn region and are NOT semite.

So, I can never grasp what this anti-semite thing is all about.
Most of the people that inhabit the land called palestine today are semite. Go figure. I get confused when people casually cast around the name anti-semite. I have to wonder if anyone knows whhat it actually means and who it must be addressing.
For instance, ben Netenyahu is not a semite. FACT!

This thread is interresting for sure. I wanted to add a couple of facts that might help clear up some of these words.

ORIGIN OF SEMITE

Semite = descendant of Shem, son of Noah.

The following primary races descend from Shem according to Torrah accounts.

Assyrian (Assur) = Germanic peoples
Esuaites (Esau) = Turkish peoples
Ishmaelites (Ishmael) = Arabic peoples
Israelites (Israel, Jacob) = modern day nations of Israel (Israel + 10 lost tribes)
Russian (Rus) = Blond Russia, think Putin.

In fact almost all of what we concider "white" races are descendants of Shem, those Asiatic races are from Jephath, and the black races from Cush, according to scripture. This is not meant to convince anyone, simply to explain what scripture says are the descendants of Shem.

ORIGIN OF ISRAELITE

Isrealite = Descendant of Israel (Jacob)

Jacob had 12 sons, and his favorite son (Joseph) had 2 sons (Ephriam and Mennesah), this is where the 13 tribes of ancient Israel came from. Up until the Kingdom was ripped in 2 all 13 tribes where called Israel. But Jocab at his death bed gave his title (Israel) to the sons of Joseph, NOT Judah!

Where ever Joseph's sons where, the name Israel was to be the title of that government according to the word of God, not anyone's interpretation of it.

When the kingdom was cut in half (Rehoboam and Jeroboam) the northern 10 tribes of Israel (including the tribes of Ephriam and Mennesah) seperated from Jerusalem's authority and received a new king. The 3 tribes which remained with Rehoboam were Judah, Benjamin and Levi. Since Judah was the largest and most influential (and since David was of Judah) the land around Jerusalem at that point forward came to be known as Judah, NOT ISRAEL! Notice in scripture the first time the term "jew" is translated it was when Judah was at war with Israel!

2 Kings 16
"5 Then Rezin king of Aram (Syria) and Pekah son of Remaliah king of Israel (northern 10 tribes called Israel) marched up to fight against Jerusalem and besieged Ahaz (King of Judah), but they could not overpower him. 6 At that time, Rezin king of Aram recovered Elath for Aram by driving out the Jews. Edomites then moved into Elath and have lived there to this day."



As a result of Israel being taken captive around 750 BCE by the Assyrians (germanic peoples of today) they were removed from their land and transported as slaves to Assyria, thus they lost their identity (to most). The 3 tribes which remained near Jerusalem (Judah, Benjamin and Levi) became known as Judah all the way up to the time of Jesus Christ.

So with this understanding, all Jews do descend from Israel (Jacob), but none of them descend from Ephriam or Mennesah, the sons of Joseph; which is where Israel's title was to remain forever. Jews are Judah, they have not been Israel since the 800's BCE, again according to scripture, this is not meant to convince anyone, but to explain what is written clearly.

So to be truely anti-semite you are anti-descendants of Shem, which include far more races then just the jews. Jews are Judah, not Israel, scriptorally, as they are not part of the nations of Ephriam (UK commonwealth) or Mennesah (America) who do still to this day bare the name of Israel spiritually as the descendants of Ephraim and Mennesah commanded by Jacob as testified in Genesis. This understanding sheeds great light on the US/UK/Israel alliance and international Zionism all three nations adhere to.

Jew = Judah
Semite = most all white races descended from Shem (misused by mankind today grossly to mean simply jews)
Israel = UK/USA, the descendants of Ephriam and Mennesah, sons of Joseph (time of Jacob's trouble).

According to the word of God.

God Bless

reply to post by ElohimJD


Well summed up info.

I have a question.....are you an adherant to, "replacement" theology. That the Western Christian Church is the "replacement" of the Hebrew people (Israel) as God's chosen???? That by crucifying Christ the Jews have been "replaced" as the chosen and that when in the New Testament or eschatological discussions the term "Israel" refers to the Church?

OR

Do you beleive when mentioned in that same context the term "Israel" still refers to ancient Israel/Judah?

I ask because I am curious and second I think that position makes a HUGE difference on how people translate and interprit last days prophecy.

Originally posted by SrWingCommander
reply to post by ElohimJD

 

Well summed up info.

I have a question.....are you an adherant to, "replacement" theology. That the Western Christian Church is the "replacement" of the Hebrew people (Israel) as God's chosen???? That by crucifying Christ the Jews have been "replaced" as the chosen and that when in the New Testament or eschatological discussions the term "Israel" refers to the Church?

OR

Do you beleive when mentioned in that same context the term "Israel" still refers to ancient Israel/Judah?

I ask because I am curious and second I think that position makes a HUGE difference on how people translate and interprit last days prophecy.

Fascinating phrasing! This is a great reply!

Yes and no.

Yes in that the birthright inheiritance of the physical blessings of Abraham have been passed on to the UK Commonwealth Nations and the USA, perfectly fulfilling all the promises God made to Abraham's descendants in those physical nations. Only the English speaking nations of the world have fulfilled the physical promises of Abraham descendants, since those nations are Ephriam and Mennesah it is 100% perfect.

Yes, in that the modern day nations of Israel (Ephriam and Mennesah, UK/USA) are ruled over by a monarch of Judah (see english royal liniage) still to this day, they coronate their royals on the "stone of scone/destiny" just as Israel coronated theirs over the exact same piece of rock, at the time known as "Jacobs pillar stone".

Yes British = Brith (Hebrew for covenant/chosen) + ish (Hebrew for people belonging to)
Yes Saxons = Issacs Sons (no vowels in Hebrew or old English, welsh still has none). Sccsns = saxons.

So regarding the physical blessings of the descendants of Abraham, yes those blessings were fulfilled in the UK/USA peoples, Judah never received the promises of Abraham, not even close.

BUT

No, in that western christianity is the "replacement" church (called out ones). God's truth is God's truth, and His called out ones have always been His. God is revealing His truth and His plan now at this moment by His perfect design, in that revealing He has made it known that all 3 of His "religions" which claim to honor His authority are in error.

Islam rejects the covenant made through Issac, and insted claims it was Ishmael Abraham offered up in sacrifice.

Christianity rejects the commandments of God, replacing what was commanded forever with doctrine that contains no scriptoral authority other then the Catholic Church in which merges sun god/pagan worship (Baal)with the Eternal.

*of note, this is EXACTLY what ancient Israel (Ephriam and Mennesah, northern 10 tribes) did when they were taken captive (Sunday, Tammutz/Winter Solstice, Asteroth/Easter/Fertility festival etc.) So is it any wonder that her descendants have also embraced Christmas, Easter and Sunday?

Judism rejects the Passover sacrifice God gave for the remission of sins, the lamb of God (Jesus Christ) who takes away the sins of the world, and thus they reject the only means by which to atone for sin (irronically pictured perfectly in Yom Kippur/Day of Atonement).

Personally ancient Israel was a physical representation of the future spiritual "israel" of God, the church (called out ones) of God, to be formed on Pentecost 31AD, and has been a small flock, unknown to the world, to this day, except for those who are called by god, and have a humble spirit (willing to learn).

As for your last question, in scripture, when reading about end days prophecies, the term "Zion" refers to the spiritual church of God, the term "Israel/Jacob" as in "a time of Jacobs trouble" refers to UK/USA. This is why the USA is not mentioned by name in Revelation, it is because God calls them what He said he would call them... Israel/Jacob.

Thank you for this question and for allowing me to respond.

God Bless,