Israel /= Jew

I'm sure most of you have seen threads or comments pertaining to Israel. One common misconception many people have is they automatically believe that anti-Israel sentiment coincides with anti-semitism.

In other words.....anti-Israel = anti-Jew or Israel = Jew

This is simply wrong and it's time to put this to rest. I would love to be able to talk about Israeli policy and action without someone piping in to say that anyone that disagrees with Israel is a Jew-hater.

So let's look at some very important numbers from the Israeli Bureau of Statistics:

Population:
7,026,000 million
Jews: 5,639,000 (76%)
Arabs: 1,387,000 (20%)
Others: 306,000 (4%)
(Israel's Central Bureau of Statistics)

Jewish 76.5%,
Muslim 15.9%,
Arab Christians 1.7%,
other Christian 0.4%,
Druze 1.6%,
unspecified 3.9% (2003 est.)

As you can see, Israel is not just Jewish. There other religions and races of people that live within Israel and help to form the body of the state.

Jew = Jew
Christian = Christian
Muslim = Muslim
and so on.....

Israel /= Jew

So the next time one of us decides to label a fellow member anti-Semitic for ridiculing the actions of Israel, please remember that Israel does not = Jew. If we can all agree on that then we will save ourselves a lot of time bickering back and forth over something that should be easy to understand.

Link

yea, its just that being a non - Jew in Israel makes you a Lepra

Also, Jews proclaim to be a race, not a religion. One of my pets peevs.

reply to post by sheepslayer247


Technically you are correct and make a valid point.

However, many people who criticize Israel apply that thinking to Jews as well. It's a bit like saying Germany != Germans. You "can" distinguish the two, but most people do not.

Again, not saying that you're wrong, only that the differentiation will be lost on many.

reply to post by sheepslayer247


The main point is not the population but who consists in the governing body. Like parliament, House of commonss or Congress etc.

reply to post by Sinny


Well I don't want to get into all that, but I just want to make sure people understand that the government and state of Israel is not directly tied to the Jewish faith alone.


reply to post by AnonymousCitizen


I agree.

Originally posted by luciddream
reply to post by sheepslayer247

 

The main point is not the population but who consists in the governing body. Like parliament, House of commonss or Congress etc.

Well I think Congress is most likely a Christian majority. Does that mean when someone ridicules America we can automatically equate that to bashing Christians?

I think not.

I'm not sure how ready people will be to take advice about antisemitism from a guy with a Hitler avatar, but good luck with that.

reply to post by MrDesolate


Well considering the fact that Hitler is thrashing on a banjo and headbanging...I don't think my avatar in any way puts Hitler in a positive light, just humorous.

Care to comment on the OP instead of my awesome death-metal Hitler avatar?

Population:
7,026,000 million
Jews: 5,639,000 (76%)

I get what you are saying, but since the majority of the nation are Jews, this indicates that one still must be specific when talking about the government of Israel vs. Israel itself.

Originally posted by sheepslayer247
reply to post by MrDesolate

 

Well considering the fact that Hitler is thrashing on a banjo and headbanging...I don't think my avatar in any way puts Hitler in a positive light, just humorous.

Care to comment on the OP instead of my awesome death-metal Hitler avatar?

I think you have one of the funniest avatars I've ever seen. Still can't figure out who that is nodding his head to the banjo-playing, though.

/TOA

reply to post by The Old American


I believe it's Himmler.

reply to post by sheepslayer247


Yes, but some members openly admit to being anti-Semitic and dont care who knows it.
Six of one half dozen of another,

Not all people who hate Israel are anti-semetic.

But all anti-semites hate Israel.

reply to post by sheepslayer247


I think anyone who puts forth the argument that anti Israel doesn't equal anti Jew is looking for an excuse to be anti Jew without being called antisemitic, and I think anyone who finds anything at all humorous about Hitler has a strange sense of propriety. Especially when used together. You picked it, you wear it.

reply to post by AnonymousCitizen

However, many people who criticize Israel apply that thinking to Jews as well. It's a bit like saying Germany != Germans. You "can" distinguish the two, but most people do not.

Most people aren't applying that thinking to Jews but to Zionist. Many people make the mistake to think you are complain about Zionist then you talking about Jews when nothing could be further from the truth. Imo it is an insult to label all Jews Zionist just like labeling all Muslims terrorist.

Originally posted by SLAYER69
reply to post by sheepslayer247

 

Yes, but some members openly admit to being anti-Semitic and dont care who knows it.
Six of one half dozen of another,

this is a red herring.
before ww2 90% of the "jewish" inhabitants of this land were semite, or sephardim.
After the war and what we have today is 95% that call themselves "jewish" are ashkenazim and are of Eastern Euopean descent and caucasion heralding from the caucusus mtn region and are NOT semite.

So, I can never grasp what this anti-semite thing is all about.
Most of the people that inhabit the land called palestine today are semite. Go figure. I get confused when people casually cast around the name anti-semite. I have to wonder if anyone knows whhat it actually means and who it must be addressing.
For instance, ben Netenyahu is not a semite. FACT!

edit:and as for my avatar. I think it's funny and is a simple micro-cosm of ats and in no way should it imply I am an animal abuser or have soomething against penguins

Yes, minorities exist. In France, there are Arabs etc - but no right minded Frenchmen would want to see France become any less French. France = land of the French,

Israel was first conceived - at least in tangible terms - by Theodor Herzl. Knowing already that you haven't read his seminal work, "the Jewish state", you wouldn't know that the state was designed a ethnic-nation state for the Jewish people.

Israel IS THE JEWISH STATE. Therefore, unreasonable and inordinate criticism of Israel is tantamount to anti-semitism.

reply to post by Sinny

Also, Jews proclaim to be a race, not a religion. One of my pets peevs.

They're both an ethnicity and a religion.

Intermarriage between Jews and overall isolation from gentiles (and Christian, Muslim hatred of Jews) helped create a de-facto 'ethnicity'. But they are also a religion.

What's so freaking hard to understand about that?

Originally posted by dontreally
reply to post by Sinny

 

Also, Jews proclaim to be a race, not a religion. One of my pets peevs.

They're both an ethnicity and a religion.

Intermarriage between Jews and overall isolation from gentiles (and Christian, Muslim hatred of Jews) helped create a de-facto 'ethnicity'. But they are also a religion.

What's so freaking hard to understand about that?

Can you provide the relevant scientific research that concludes that Jews are a race of people as opposed to a group of like minded religious folk?

Can you also provide a reasonable response to the following question:

" How is criticism of a government, considered racist, or in this case anti-semitist?"

I complain about my government all the time, does that mean I'm racist against white people because most of them are caucasian?

I fail to see the logic.

~Tenth

Conversely, if you support Israel can we say that doesn't automatically mean your an, "imperialistic zionist"???

Although, I am pretty sure 90% of the people on thsi site have a skewed at best understanding of the term "zionist".

reply to post by dontreally

Theodor Herzl

Ah yes the European atheist who openly proclaimed he hated Judaism.
Was the founder of zionism, Theodor Herzl, an atheist?

Theodor Herzl The term "Zionism" was first introduced in 1893 by Nathan Birmbaum, but Theodor Herzl, an Austrian Jew born to a prosperous, emancipated Budapest family, is recognized as the founder of the Zionist ideology when he published his book in 1896, "The Jewish State", where he declared that the cure for anti-semitism was the establishment of a Jewish state. As he saw it, the best place to establish this state was in Palestine.

Even back then Zionist wanted to steal Palestinian land.

In the diary of Herzl, page 14, he writes a way to solve the problem of antisemitism was to speak to the head priest of Vienna to get an appointment with the Pope, to make a mass conversion of all the Jews of Austria to Catholicism. He continues: "It should be done on a Sunday, in the middle of the day, with music, and pride, publicly. We are the last generation that held on to the faith of our for-fathers. The conversion would be in St. Stephen's Cathedral." (How could you honor a Jew that wanted to abolish Judaism?)